103 réponses à ce sujet

[Saphiron123]

Having beaten DAI two times now, I have to say I enjoyed the central story. I'm also finding my playthroughs get shorter every time. I'm dragon age history I've never skipped quests before, i always do them all... and it's not size that's making me skip them, it's the rewards.

It's not gear rewards or money rewards, but story rewards.

I'm playing DAO right now as well, recently reached redcliff (doing it third instead of first) and I brought the mages to help with the situation and a party composition i never used before. Not only did I get unique dialogue in nearly every quest in redcliff that I'd never heard (and I had 6 wardens before DAI came out, old, but I replayed that game more then probably any other), but I even had the chance to play as first enchanter irving in the fade. It was awesome.

Now, you look at cassandra's unfinished business quest (this is a character quest, this is supposed to be a big deal) and there's no unique banter (one line when we meet these guys, but you never know who they are or much about what they've done). And you kill them, and you get +2 power, and when you finally kill them all in all the optional areas... nothing. Quest complete, I guess.

Varrick's red lyrium quest is the same, varrick approves, varrick has nothing to say about it. My other companions DEFINITELY have nothing to say about it... so where's the replayability? I love replaying DAO because there's new stuff to see and hear every time, I've seen all these quest have to offer already. i saw it the first time I played through.

10 years after starting DAO, I'm bringing wynne to redcliff and seeing scenes i've never seen before. I look Loghain to Ostagar with Wynne, and they have entire banter sessions I didn't know existed. Most of DAI isn't like that, if you skip all of emprise du lion, it doesn't affect the game much, you miss out on little dialogue or scenes.

And that's the problem, that's where most of the core dragon age fans are feeling disappointed, we love bioware and drgaon age, we love the stories and the little touches like seeing people's expressions when they talk (gone from most conversations, replaced with a slight zoom that's JUST like an MMO questgiver). Anyone here can boot up dragon age origins or DA2 and see story they've never seen before, and DA2 for it's recycled maps and waves of bad guys, actually has a lot to offer when you know that's coming (even if it's not world ending stuff, I did enjoy it the second time I tried it).

It's a matter of expectations, and we want bioware titles to be cinematic, personal. Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to run 30 miles across the hinterlands to deliver flowers to someone's grave and never tell the guy about it because +2 power and quest complete, and he apparently doesn't need to know.

Dragon age is an amazing IP. I don't want to see it turn into a skyrim or a WOW, because those are different games with a different feel and completely different goals. And when I get back from delivering flowers, Leliana is telling me about great battles against hordes of demons that I wasn't even a part of, about the destruction of entire armies in the arbhor wilds (I saw like 30 guys) or that the warden is knee deep in blood in the deep roads, searching for the source of the calling and the darkspawn, and I'm left thinking "I wish I could have seen that". Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see my warden again as a PC updated 10 years in the CC, but not as part of inquisition DLC because this is the inquisitor's game... but it sure sounded interesting.

The dragon fights were amazing, the best in any dragon age game, the bosses were really impersonal... not scenes introducing them, no dialogue in many cases, there were several moments i realized i was fighting a boss halfway through because he had more hit points, and he was a reskinned despair demon etc. The male desire demon offered nothing to tempt me compared to the female one in the fade who i actually had to think about before responding (and his demon forms were just recycled demons from the rifts, he could have been so unique). Now compare that to the broodmother, who had a seriously creepy lead in and was one of the most unique bosses of it's time.

The crafting is well done, I can't stress how much I miss having tactics, I mean sure have a no tactics option for new players if you like but they aren't rocket science, and they were great. The basic AI doesn't compare to the tactics we had in DAO and DA2 and I just think it's SUCH a missed opportunity with modern technology because they could be great. I miss attribute points, and building my own characters (and caring about attribute enhancing gear). I miss having items that were attribute based, which you could build your character towards. I miss a lot of the magic we used to have, that controlled the battlefield allowing us to face more opponents then we face in DAI. Wynne paralyzing a whole room to thin it out and set traps was always a lot of fun. And enemy mages used to be a threat, they had different spells and each encounter was different (barring the use of mana clash, but hey, that spell was unbalanced and I rarely used it). I miss how enemy soldiers weren't just mobs, they were unique npcs with different faces and gear, which ties into the mage thing, now they're just guys with floating books that function the same for every single faction... ice mines and fire mines + barrier, no horror spells or fireballs or cones of electricity to keep you on your toes. They no longer feel like real, living opponents, they just feel like wolves or bears, copied and pasted. With 2-3 spells.

I miss the cities with all the npcs, I hope to see a little less wilderness in the dlc.  Some of those huge maps are totally devoid of npcs with dialogue, certainly not cinematic dialogue with facial expressions and such. I miss the economy that had silver and copper, instead of one denomination because EA feels their games are too hard to learn (I promise you, we're living thinking people, basic coins don't intimidate us and elfroot shouldn't cost a sovereign 10 years after origins... it's pretty silly).

What I'm saying, and what I think a lot of people here will agree with, is that we're all really passionate about dragon age both past and present. Bioware tells the best stories in the industry, I mean people attack the ending of ME3, but the game was amazing (and if you disagree, let's focus on dragon age), and in my opinion all the mass effect games were. They tell stories with animated, lively characters that feel real. I hope this will always remain their focus, because it's why we love them, and why their games are better and more memorable then the likes of skyrim and WOW. It's the storytelling that has me thinking about another game of DAO, just to change things a bit, and I look forward to trying DAI with those decisions made. I hope to see some seriously story heavy dlc on the way, because the new maps have breadth, but I think in some ways they took away from the details that make bioware games truly special.

Anyway, that's my thoughts after two playthroughs. Sound off if you agree or disagree, but to me this MMO stuff takes away from an amazing series, and if I wanted that sort of thing, there are other, less memorable series that do it. And if this is your first dragon age, play origins and DA2 (expect recycled maps and waves of enemies, but look past that as inevitable and there's a lot to like) and see what the past games felt like.

[Bioware-Critic]

Well ...

 

I guess the money went into the big areas as well as the developement time went into them

DLC's could add new changes to the whole and especially the main quest. They are now free to do the things they want to do. Once they are finished patching Inquisition. But I doubt the game will change in a meaningful way ... I mean I hope so - but I won't hold my breath on that!

I just wish Brent Knowles would do the next DA title - I can tell you that ... (Dreams from outtah' space ...)

The new title has many good things to it. But it is more beautiful to look at than it is enjoyable while being played!

 

It is my impression that the big publishers like to jump on trends - no matter how unrelated they are to the RPG genre - and to create trends/hype. Both is nonsense, because RPG's have a lot of gaming culture attached to them and you cannot always just push all of it aside. Sometimes you have to give some room and respect to what people enjoy and love. But this industry is too money-centric in the moment for anything respectful it seems!

 

Alleged "trends" and PR generated hype seem to be easier to "understand/respect" for the big companies.

And make no mistake: They (EA) own/rule BioWare - 100%

 

Hope you don't mind my plain speaking about it 

[elrofrost]

First, there is Skyrim and there is ESO. They are not the same game. Lets get that settled right now. And comparing DAI against Skyrim is useless cause they are VERY different games.

 

Now comparing DAI against WOW I feel is fair. Look, I believe DAI was meant to be a MMO but EA pulled the plug on that and we got what we got. Not much you can do except post and hope BW "corrects" this in later games.

 

I'm just hoping they don't do the same to the ME series. I would be a crying shame if ME4 played like DAI.

[AiCola]

totally agree with you OP.

The problem is that all the hype comes from people who played a few hours and were amazed by the graphics and the promising setting (i was aswell)
Then after 10-20 hours of gameplay they praise the game to heavne and flame everybody that makes a post like you.

I have all the epic moments in my mind from DA:O and DA:2 (yes even da:2!!!), none of this is there in DA:I

[Bioware-Critic]

First, there is Skyrim and there is ESO. They are not the same game. Lets get that settled right now. And comparing DAI against Skyrim is useless cause they are VERY different games.

 

Now comparing DAI against WOW I feel is fair. Look, I believe DAI was meant to be a MMO but EA pulled the plug on that and we got what we got. Not much you can do except post and hope BW "corrects" this in later games.

 

I'm just hoping they don't do the same to the ME series. I would be a crying shame if ME4 played like DAI.

 

... which leaves the question in the room, why Casey Hudson was leaving and why they put Mac Walters in charge, now? (From the business point of view) Hopefully ME4 will learn from DA:I's fan-response in a meaningful way.

[Akrabra]

Dragon Age Inquisition was not meant to be a mmorpg, are you kidding me? Bioware would never make another one or have EA have them make one when they have SWTOR. As mentioned dozen times before the open world resembles Baldurs Gate more than any mmo. They just have to find a better way to use the world as part of the main narrative, and include companions more in this aswell. 

[Brevnau]

Using DAITools you might be able to edit all the fetch quests and set the fetch amount from 819238102983 to 1.  I'm hoping someone will make a mod that basically requires you only fetch 1 of anything and no more.

 

I agree with you though. I'm still shocked EA/Bioware added all these WOW style quests to Dragon Age. 

 

I'm telling you, Bioware is gone.  That doesn't mean I don't appreciate what they did with Kotor 1, Mass Effect & Dragon age I & II.   The Bioware we knew died after Mass Effect 3 unfortunately. 

 

It's just shocking how the combat, tactics, UI, pc controls have downgraded severely since DA2 & DAO.

[Tyrus]

Having beaten DAI two times now, I have to say I enjoyed the central story. I'm also finding my playthroughs get shorter every time. I'm dragon age history I've never skipped quests before, i always do them all... and it's not size that's making me skip them, it's the rewards.

It's not gear rewards or money rewards, but story rewards.

I'm playing DAO right now as well, recently reached redcliff (doing it third instead of first) and I brought the mages to help with the situation and a party composition i never used before. Not only did I get unique dialogue in nearly every quest in redcliff that I'd never heard (and I had 6 wardens before DAI came out, old, but I replayed that game more then probably any other), but I even had the chance to play as first enchanter irving in the fade. It was awesome.

Now, you look at cassandra's unfinished business quest (this is a character quest, this is supposed to be a big deal) and there's no unique banter (one line when we meet these guys, but you never know who they are or much about what they've done). And you kill them, and you get +2 power, and when you finally kill them all in all the optional areas... nothing. Quest complete, I guess.

Varrick's red lyrium quest is the same, varrick approves, varrick has nothing to say about it. My other companions DEFINITELY have nothing to say about it... so where's the replayability? I love replaying DAO because there's new stuff to see and hear every time, I've seen all these quest have to offer already. i saw it the first time I played through.

10 years after starting DAO, I'm bringing wynne to redcliff and seeing scenes i've never seen before. I look Loghain to Ostagar with Wynne, and they have entire banter sessions I didn't know existed. Most of DAI isn't like that, if you skip all of emprise du lion, it doesn't affect the game much, you miss out on little dialogue or scenes.

 

This, this this.

[Saphiron123]

Using DAITools you might be able to edit all the fetch quests and set the fetch amount from 819238102983 to 1.  I'm hoping someone will make a mod that basically requires you only fetch 1 of anything and no more.

 

I agree with you though. I'm still shocked EA/Bioware added all these WOW style quests to Dragon Age. 

 

I'm telling you, Bioware is gone.  That doesn't mean I don't appreciate what they did with Kotor 1, Mass Effect & Dragon age I & II.   The Bioware we knew died after Mass Effect 3 unfortunately. 

 

It's just shocking how the combat, tactics, UI, pc controls have downgraded severely since DA2 & DAO.

Well that's why we're here, to try and show them what we, the fanbase want to see... the more vocal we are, the more topics like this get discussed, the bigger the impact we'll have.

[Regan_Cousland]

I believe DAI was meant to be a MMO but EA pulled the plug on that and we got what we got. 

 

I think you're right. I've just been roaming around Crestwood looking for assassin tokens (which I can't bloody find, even with the help of an online guide), and the map, like others in the game, is absolutely massive.

It doesn't make sense to have all of that unoccupied space in a single-player game.

I can't imagine the creative team said, "Let's make a thousand square miles of terrain and put nothing in it. It'll add to the atmosphere." lol

If the game had been designed with single-player in mind, surely some of these environments would have served as backdrops for story quests. A lot of the area doesn't even have side quests, it's so big.

[animedreamer]

I would have prefered if the character building was more complicated, something to actual make you think and pick your brain a bit. I was very defensive of BioWares decision to do away with manual stat allocation, until i actually played through the game. Even if that wasn't the case though, the fact that again skills are not incorporated into game play, or interactions with npcs is saddening, technically there is no skills at all period. Also the way weapon talents/spells work makes it so they require very little thought. Class Combo's be damned, you don't need to even know if the skill combos or not just, cast, cast, cast, or use use use. Basically when one skill is on cooldown use another one until you win.

[Saphiron123]

I would have prefered if the character building was more complicated, something to actual make you think and pick your brain about. I was very defensive of BioWares decision to do away with manual stat allocation, until i actually played through the game. Even if that wasn't the case though, the fact that again skills are not incorporated into game play, or interactions with npcs is saddening, technically there is no skills at all period. Also the way weapon talents/spells work they require very little thought. Class Combo's be damned, you don't need to even know if the a skill combos or not just, cast, cast, cast, or use use use. Basically when one skill is on cooldown use another one until you win.

Yeah I never knew how much i'd miss attribute points until i didn't ahve them. It makes all stat increasing gear irrelevant... couldn't tell you any of my character stats at this point.

[actionhero112]

The world feels empty. That's the only way I can put it. I can't name any of the NPC's in any area because they either didn't have a specified name, or their quest didn't engage me beyond, "go here, collect/fight this." 

 

I'd rather have smaller, but populated areas than the world we have now. 

There are a couple quests that were done really well, but even then they could have been improved upon by adding more explanations to why we're fighting them in an engaging manner. (Read as: not through the quest description)

 

- Mayor In Crestwood: That mission was handled very well, but I'd have liked an investigation segment in town that culminates with a confrontation of some sort. Kind of like you do research into what happened to old crestwood by interviewing people, who are more or less receptive the more you lean on/are nice to them. Which kind of technique is more effective on what town people by getting to know the town. The better you are with you investigation, the more information you get to not only arrest the mayor, but maybe find a hidden cache or something. Rewarding the player for learning about your world is how you immerse people. And don't do it through collectibles, because this isn't banjo. 

 

-The Elven Girl in crestwood. Fantastic consequence later on for a initially underwhelming encounter. Still could have been better by giving the girl a family or some kind of background. Why should I care about some girl who very eagerly made her own  decision to join the wardens? Give me some responsibility.

 

-Sullidin Keep: Ishmael was great but he could have been better. No one is going to make the deal with a demon unless they are rewarded. Give me a reward for letting Ishmael continue doing whatever he is with the red lyrium. Right now this is a facade of a choice, there is only one real choice.  

 

In all your areas that you spent all this time on, I really didn't care about because they didn't do anything to make me care. As far as I'm concerned, they were crappy intermissions between the story missions that you could fill with chest rng and spammy combat. 

[Lee T]

I donT know in what they are turning Dragon Age into but it isn't Skyrim. I love Skyrim just as much as I love DAO, And DAI did't take anything good from both. if anything it left me wondering if Bioware does know what was good in DAO and if they understood what was interesting in Skyrim.

[theluc76]

some of the guys who did DAO are workng on D&D sword coast legends, if not bothered by isometric view games this upcoming title might do the trick.

[Koneko Koji]

I personally find that a lot of the central story suffers through the lack of cinematics and the over use of codex entries and reports. In Origins, I got a sense of who my Warden was with the intro to the character - in DA:I, you're thrown in headfirst with a small codex entry to cover; and from a roleplay point of view, I find that codex too specific in some cases; for example I play as a Dalish Rogue, my codex entry insists that I was a hunter for the clan and provider etc etc. There is no need for that information and it takes away from what I want to be (also why WHY would you send one of your best providers on a dangerous mission like this - makes no sense!)

 

I mean as it is, it reads:

 

[Player name] became a hunter at a young age, growing into a respected protector and provider. The recent mage rebellions disturbed [his/her] clan's way of life, as the fighting spilled out into the countryside. Clan Lavellan's leader, Keeper Deshanna Istimaethoriel Lavellan, chose [Player name] to spy on the meeting at the Temple of Sacred Ashes between the Divine and the feuding factions, so [he/she] could bring back news of the outcome.

 

Without that first sentence, it still reads informatively but doesn't take yet another character aspect away from me (like attribute points and skills or the ability to craft on the fly).

 

I also think the quests are pretty dull - I want to do the war table missions, they seem so much more interesting than dropping flowers on a grave. T_T

[AiCola]

I personally find that a lot of the central story suffers through the lack of cinematics and the over use of codex entries and reports. In Origins, I got a sense of who my Warden was with the intro to the character - in DA:I, you're thrown in headfirst with a small codex entry to cover; and from a roleplay point of view, I find that codex too specific in some cases; for example I play as a Dalish Rogue, my codex entry insists that I was a hunter for the clan and provider etc etc. There is no need for that information and it takes away from what I want to be (also why WHY would you send one of your best providers on a dangerous mission like this - makes no sense!)

 

I mean as it is, it reads:

 

[Player name] became a hunter at a young age, growing into a respected protector and provider. The recent mage rebellions disturbed [his/her] clan's way of life, as the fighting spilled out into the countryside. Clan Lavellan's leader, Keeper Deshanna Istimaethoriel Lavellan, chose [Player name] to spy on the meeting at the Temple of Sacred Ashes between the Divine and the feuding factions, so [he/she] could bring back news of the outcome.

 

Without that first sentence, it still reads informatively but doesn't take yet another character aspect away from me (like attribute points and skills or the ability to craft on the fly).

 

I also think the quests are pretty dull - I want to do the war table missions, they seem so much more interesting than dropping flowers on a grave. T_T

 

I agree completly.

Also with how the codex describes your character it makes no sense at all how he could have gotten the mark (all who played the game know what i mean)
Why would a spy ever get into this situation? lul!

[Saphiron123]

I personally find that a lot of the central story suffers through the lack of cinematics and the over use of codex entries and reports. In Origins, I got a sense of who my Warden was with the intro to the character - in DA:I, you're thrown in headfirst with a small codex entry to cover; and from a roleplay point of view, I find that codex too specific in some cases; for example I play as a Dalish Rogue, my codex entry insists that I was a hunter for the clan and provider etc etc. There is no need for that information and it takes away from what I want to be (also why WHY would you send one of your best providers on a dangerous mission like this - makes no sense!)

 

I mean as it is, it reads:

 

[Player name] became a hunter at a young age, growing into a respected protector and provider. The recent mage rebellions disturbed [his/her] clan's way of life, as the fighting spilled out into the countryside. Clan Lavellan's leader, Keeper Deshanna Istimaethoriel Lavellan, chose [Player name] to spy on the meeting at the Temple of Sacred Ashes between the Divine and the feuding factions, so [he/she] could bring back news of the outcome.

 

Without that first sentence, it still reads informatively but doesn't take yet another character aspect away from me (like attribute points and skills or the ability to craft on the fly).

 

I also think the quests are pretty dull - I want to do the war table missions, they seem so much more interesting than dropping flowers on a grave. T_T

Yeah DAI suffers from too many codex readings, and too many conversations telling you about things you probably should have been able to participate in... like man, I wish i'd seen the arbhor wilds leliana told me about instead of the ones I saw with a few soldiers in it.

Was kind of a bummer.

[Melca36]

I enjoyed all the games equally.

 

I love Inquisition and can complete a playthrough doing 80% in about 50-60 hours.  Its not hard and its not difficult to have differences in the games.

 

The game is NOT WOW.  People in the day and age have become lazy and want everything handed to them in their games or they want a virtual novel with very little gameplay.

 

I got my moneys worth in Inquisition and I hope the next game is not a 20 hour game that costs $70.

 

The game developers should not pander to any side...yet there should be a reasonable compromise for ALL gamers.

 

 

[Kantr]

EA recently pulled the plug on what looked to be like a good mmo (that had a good webcomic as well) because it wasn't integrated with the origin client.

[Auztin]

I don't see the MMO combat.This games plays as much like DA:O without auto attack(MMOs have auto attack).I guess DA:O was an MMO as well.

[Tex]

I enjoyed all the games equally.
 
I love Inquisition and can complete a playthrough doing 80% in about 50-60 hours.  Its not hard and its not difficult to have differences in the games.
 
The game is NOT WOW.  People in the day and age have become lazy and want everything handed to them in their games or they want a virtual novel with very little gameplay.
 
I got my moneys worth in Inquisition and I hope the next game is not a 20 hour game that costs $70.
 
The game developers should not pander to any side...yet there should be a reasonable compromise for ALL gamers.

I have to say I agree on this and hope the next game is even bigger.

[Dreamer]

I enjoyed all the games equally.

 

I love Inquisition and can complete a playthrough doing 80% in about 50-60 hours.  Its not hard and its not difficult to have differences in the games.

 

The game is NOT WOW.  People in the day and age have become lazy and want everything handed to them in their games or they want a virtual novel with very little gameplay.

 

I got my moneys worth in Inquisition and I hope the next game is not a 20 hour game that costs $70.

 

The game developers should not pander to any side...yet there should be a reasonable compromise for ALL gamers.

 

The compromise is a polite way of saying developers cater to the "lowest common denominator." The widest audience for the widest buck. You can't be all things to all people, and more often than not, trying means you'll be nothing to everyone.

[Gileadan]

The compromise is a polite way of saying developers cater to the "lowest common denominator." The widest audience for the widest buck. You can't be all things to all people, and more often than not, trying means you'll be nothing to everyone.

Exactly this.

 

How many books or movies appeal to every possible audience out there? It's pretty darn close to impossible to do. And if books or movies can't do that, why would anyone assume that videogames somehow can?

 

It's not a true compromise until everyone is equally unhappy anyway.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's a matter of expectations, and we want bioware titles to be cinematic, personal.

I most certainly do not want that. Cinematics are the worst thing to happen to RPGs in the last 20 years.