103 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Like the areas, like the freedom of choice for quests, am not a fan of certain combat selections like throwing chains, 2H earthquakes, etc; skip it and move to things I do enjoy. While I dislike Threat and other MMO like components, Guard is a feature in this game I do enjoy. And while I dislike crowds, I do like solo play.

DAI is a great MMO-solo experience.

[Bioware-Critic]

The compromise is a polite way of saying developers cater to the "lowest common denominator." The widest audience for the widest buck. You can't be all things to all people, and more often than not, trying means you'll be nothing to everyone.

Exactly! Kudos!

They should stretch their back-muscles a bit more ... and show some "RPG-game-developer pride"! RPG fans buy RPG's not the "Candy-Crush-crowd"!

[Bioware-Critic]

I most certainly do not want that. Cinematics are the worst thing to happen to RPGs in the last 20 years.

 

Could you elaborate a bit?

[Bioware-Critic]

I donT know in what they are turning Dragon Age into but it isn't Skyrim. I love Skyrim just as much as I love DAO, And DAI did't take anything good from both. if anything it left me wondering if Bioware does know what was good in DAO and if they understood what was interesting in Skyrim.

My gut tells me ...

... they sure as hell know it ...
... and just as much don't give a damn about it

I really have no clue what they were thinking when they published the game? Did they think we wouldn't notice or wouldn't care or that it wouldn't rattle their cage? I am wondering about that for a while now ... And I have no clue what drove them to develope DA3 this way!

[Saphiron123]

Sylvius, maybe bioware games aren't for you then... I mean why change an IP we love to make them into a totally different type of game that you enjoy. Plenty of cinematic free games out there, without character expressions or dialogue etc. Dragon age is about story and characters, it's not meant to just be a sandbox.

And Melca, my comments aren't about the combat, it's the meaningless fetch questing. When has a dragon age game EVER been 20 hours? This just took 20 hours of quality, replayable and changing side quests and banter, and replaced them with "collect 20 of this for +2 power". A side quest should have dialogue, unique party banter, something to make it more then a chore. Dragon age can tell a story and have 100 hours of content, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Though rather then giant empty wilderness environments, I hope to see some cities, more then 30 npcs, maybe even maps that affect the main story like past games. Like spend as much time in emprise as you want, it doesn't affect the main story in the slightest.

Replacing side missions with unique dialogue based on your party with mindless delivery missions is far from an improvement. Now that I'm playing origins again, the difference is pretty staggering.

[Saphiron123]

Like the areas, like the freedom of choice for quests, am not a fan of certain combat selections like throwing chains, 2H earthquakes, etc; skip it and move to things I do enjoy. While I dislike Threat and other MMO like components, Guard is a feature in this game I do enjoy. And while I dislike crowds, I do like solo play.

DAI is a great MMO-solo experience.

Yeah but that isn't dragon age. They're throwing away the style of the games that came before... there are other MMO IPs, there's new IPs, why ruin this existing one?

Taking quality missions out and replacing them with fluff isn't a good thing. Making the economy basic as hell because EA thinks we're too stupid to understand multiple denominations isn't a good thing. Cutting out tactics, attribute points, most of the tactical spells and giving us basic options they moved past 10 years ago isn't an improvement either.

Dragon age used to be mature, smart, character driven... it shouldn't be baby's first RPG, dumbed down to the point it's no longer interesting or it doesn't respect our time.

[Saphiron123]

I enjoyed all the games equally.

 

I love Inquisition and can complete a playthrough doing 80% in about 50-60 hours.  Its not hard and its not difficult to have differences in the games.

 

The game is NOT WOW.  People in the day and age have become lazy and want everything handed to them in their games or they want a virtual novel with very little gameplay.

 

I got my moneys worth in Inquisition and I hope the next game is not a 20 hour game that costs $70.

 

The game developers should not pander to any side...yet there should be a reasonable compromise for ALL gamers.

Seriously Melca, your post blows my mind... when has dragon age ever been any of those things? Is anybody asking for that? No. We just want living characters, great stories, not being asked to run 30 miles in the hinterlands to drop off flowers instead of having a real side quest that's actually interesting. We don't want everything handed to us and we don't want it short and simple, if anything we're pissed they took the complex elements out. Like 10 years ago they had a system to control your party tactics, now here we are in 2015, and solas has wasted his barrier spell in every. single. battle. The damn thing is down to 10% when you actually take your first hit.

One of the missions in the game is "find 48 copies of Varrick's book in skyhold". 

Seriously? That isn't fun, it's a waste of time. And when you finish, Varrick doesn't even acknowledge it. +2 power, quest complete, that's the end of the mission. Bioware can do better.

Origins and DA2 were both pretty long games, they had a little fluff too, but DAI is 80% fluff. In fact, I think it has the shortest main story of any bioware game... it IS the 20 hour version, you just spend 80 more looking for the equivelant of Varrick's stupid book.Shards. Books. Plants. Rocks. Little stone mosaic pieces that don't do anything and are there for literally no reason.

Origins had 1/20th of that sort of thing, and it was richer for it. And Still about 80 hours to do everything.

[Bioware-Critic]

Sylvius, maybe bioware games aren't for you then... I mean why change an IP we love to make them into a totally different type of game that you enjoy. Plenty of cinematic free games out there, without character expressions or dialogue etc. Dragon age is about story and characters, it's not meant to just be a sandbox.

And Melca, my comments aren't about the combat, it's the meaningless fetch questing. When has a dragon age game EVER been 20 hours? This just took 20 hours of quality, replayable and changing side quests and banter, and replaced them with "collect 20 of this for +2 power". A side quest should have dialogue, unique party banter, something to make it more then a chore. Dragon age can tell a story and have 100 hours of content, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Though rather then giant empty wilderness environments, I hope to see some cities, more then 30 npcs, maybe even maps that affect the main story like past games. Like spend as much time in emprise as you want, it doesn't affect the main story in the slightest.

Replacing side missions with unique dialogue based on your party with mindless delivery missions is far from an improvement. Now that I'm playing origins again, the difference is pretty staggering.

 

Exactly!

[Elhanan]

Yeah but that isn't dragon age. They're throwing away the style of the games that came before... there are other MMO IPs, there's new IPs, why ruin this existing one?

Taking quality missions out and replacing them with fluff isn't a good thing. Making the economy basic as hell because EA thinks we're too stupid to understand multiple denominations isn't a good thing. Cutting out tactics, attribute points, most of the tactical spells and giving us basic options they moved past 10 years ago isn't an improvement either.

Dragon age used to be mature, smart, character driven... it shouldn't be baby's first RPG, dumbed down to the point it's no longer interesting or it doesn't respect our time.

Believe DAO and DA2 had Threat mechanics; another MMO connection to the trinity. And I skipped it in both. Now in DAI, I use some of it because it also generates Guard, which is something I do like, but still pass on throwing a perfectly good melee weapon at opponents.

Silver and copper meant nothing to me in either game, though I am a proponent of the silver standard for medieval settings. After the first campaign in most settings, I simply use the console to add unlimited gold and remove the shopping hauls from the game. Or in the case of DAO, selling the Golem Club and utilizing some in game gold machines, achieved the same thing. In DAI, I have played both games in Vanilla setting, no exploits, and still have plenty at end game.

It is pardoned for myself; skip the nits for something of importance.

What is meant by Tactical spells? Stone Fist is a personal favorite, and still extant.

[cers001]

For the sake of sanity  games with multiplayer are not auto MMO's games like Raven software's Solider of fortune 2, Star trek Voyager: Elite force and the god awful COD from EA, ubisofts' splinter cell blacklist where single player games that had multiplayer components that doesn't make them all MMO's

IF DAI was an MMO it'd be laughed of the stage cause it's not an MMO even cryptic software's "star trek online" is an MMO but bearly

[Regan_Cousland]

My gut tells me ...

... [BioWare] sure as hell know [what they're doing] ...
... and just as much don't give a damn about it

I really have no clue what they were thinking when they published [Inquisition]. Did they think we wouldn't notice or wouldn't care or that it wouldn't rattle their cage? I am wondering about that for a while now ... And I have no clue what drove them to develop DA3 this way!

 

I think you're right. I think BioWare know what they're doing and they don't care. Or rather, they're willing to take criticism on the chin and lose a few longtime fans and PC fans as they strive to impress the (apparently) larger and more lucrative Skyrim crowd.

And if those are their goals, so be it. But they should at least be honest with us.

Don't lead us to believe that Inquisition is the best of Origins and DA2 when seventy percent of it is actually a Skyrim-style MMO.

[Saphiron123]

Believe DAO and DA2 had Threat mechanics; another MMO connection to the trinity. And I skipped it in both. Now in DAI, I use some of it because it also generates Guard, which is something I do like, but still pass on throwing a perfectly good melee weapon at opponents.

Silver and copper meant nothing to me in either game, though I am a proponent of the silver standard for medieval settings. After the first campaign in most settings, I simply use the console to add unlimited gold and remove the shopping hauls from the game. Or in the case of DAO, selling the Golem Club and utilizing some in game gold machines, achieved the same thing. In DAI, I have played both games in Vanilla setting, no exploits, and still have plenty at end game.

It is pardoned for myself; skip the nits for something of importance.

What is meant by Tactical spells? Stone Fist is a personal favorite, and still extant.

Spells like paralysis, glyphs, horror, waking nightmare, sleep, pretty much all of blood magic including control, the slow time spell that makes enemies slower the closer they are to the target point that pairs so well with the spell that drags them closer together in DA2. Spell combinations like storm of the century and grease fire. And your enemy had these too, so left alone they could wreck you.

Look at enemy mages now, they have fire mine, ice mine, and barrier. None of them have anything else, not even chain lighting or basic spells like that. In past games each enemy mage had his own set of spells. Apparently this fails under "too hard to learn". So each mage has tons of hit points and no actual magic.

Aaaaaand they removed tactics,. so even the non-tactical spells are used even worse then they were 10 years ago. See an enemy 30 seconds away? Solas casts barrier... Thanks Solas! Way to waste 90% of the barrier before the fight even starts :S

 

For the sake of sanity  games with multiplayer are not auto MMO's games like Raven software's Solider of fortune 2, Star trek Voyager: Elite force and the god awful COD from EA, ubisofts' splinter cell blacklist where single player games that had multiplayer components that doesn't make them all MMO's

IF DAI was an MMO it'd be laughed of the stage cause it's not an MMO even cryptic software's "star trek online" is an MMO but bearly

Oh the multiplayer has nothing to do with it, it's the single player design. The fetch question with no story or unique dialogue... goddamn, the fetch quests are like 80% of the game. Play origins, the quests are real quests, most of the have unique dialogue for different party members and different options that affect the outcome.

I miss that. DAI still does it, but rarely.

[Saphiron123]

I think you're right. I think BioWare know what they're doing and they don't care. Or rather, they're willing to take criticism on the chin and lose a few longtime fans and PC fans as they strive to impress the (apparently) larger and more lucrative Skyrim crowd.

And if those are their goals, so be it. But they should at least be honest with us.

Don't lead us to believe that Inquisition is the best of Origins and DA2 when seventy percent of it is actually a Skyrim-style MMO.

Thing is, I think the skyrim crowd would ALSO love real story side missions and unique banter too, I just don't know why they decided on top of size, they had to add in the worst parts, which is the unrewarding fluff quests.

[dreamgazer]

I wonder if folks realize exactly how many games would be labeled "single-player MMOs" based on respawning enemies and fetch quests.

[Melca36]

I think you're right. I think BioWare know what they're doing and they don't care. Or rather, they're willing to take criticism on the chin and lose a few longtime fans and PC fans as they strive to impress the (apparently) larger and more lucrative Skyrim crowd.

And if those are their goals, so be it. But they should at least be honest with us.

Don't lead us to believe that Inquisition is the best of Origins and DA2 when seventy percent of it is actually a Skyrim-style MMO.

 

 

You obvious were not around during the rage for DA2. That game received far more rage than Inquisition.  While DA4 will likely be different than Inquisitin do not expect a return to Origins or DA2 because it will be a completely different game and I'm sure people will find excused to complain about it as well.

[Saphiron123]

I wonder if folks realize exactly how many games would be labeled "single-player MMOs" based on respawning enemies and fetch quests.

Lots. the thing dragon age was always kind of special. hell, In DAO the blacksmith at ostagar makes fun of fetch quests and tells the player they have better things to do... and now here's bioware in 2015, making us find 50 copies of varrick's book.

 

Depressing, really.

[dreamgazer]

Lots. the thing dragon age was always kind of special. hell, In DAO the blacksmith at ostagar makes fun of fetch quests and tells the player they have better things to do... and now here's bioware in 2015, making us find 50 copies of varrick's book.
 
Depressing, really.

There are fetch quests in Origins, though. (shrug)

[Saphiron123]

You obvious were not around during the rage for DA2. That game received far more rage than Inquisition.  While DA4 will likely be different than Inquisitin do not expect a return to Origins or DA2 because it will be a completely different game and I'm sure people will find excused to complain about it as well.

I just want great storytelling. Hell, DA2's story wasn't epic, but it worked. people were pissed because of the waves of enemies and awful map recycling. Going in with those things in mind, I really enjoyed it the second time, much to my surprise (femhawke helped, renegade male hawke was kind of dry).

Bioware took it to extremes though, people were mad they were stuck in a city, so now the game has NO cities and a population of like 38. 

[Saphiron123]

There are fetch quests in Origins, though. (shrug)

Yeah, but there's a few fetch quests, and most are on your way. DAi is like 80% fetch quests, and they require you to go across a map to deliver flowers. I mean nothing on the chanters board ever required you to go out of your way.

DAI there were so many fetch quests in the hinterlands, I was thinking "holy ****, is this the game?". 

None of it is interesting. Half of it is literally "take these ashes here" with no dialogue, you click the point, and you get +2 power and quest complete. Zero impact on the world, hell you don't even get paid.

And nothing in origins comes close to "find 50 copies of varrick's book" in skyhold.... like, really? Someone at bioware though we'd find looking for stray books exciting?

And when you finally find the last one... Varrick doesn't even comment. +2 power. Quest complete.

Plus the new camera for conversations make it feel more like WOW then dragon age. 10 years ago characters had expressions and body language and clever camera angles, now we get a slight zoom on a static character, like a quest-giver in an MMO.

Just feels like they've taken serious steps back. Losing stuff like the tactics menu and attribute points and attribute based gear doesn't help either.

[dreamgazer]

There's a side-quest in the Mass Effect Citadel DLC where you do nearly 200 pull-ups to compete with James Vega. Needless to say, all content isn't mandatory. I didn't bother with finding Varric's books, and I completed the game just fine.

I also wouldn't really call delivering death notices, gathering garnets, and collecting love letters (among other fetch/FedEx quests in Origins) all that "interesting".

[Saphiron123]

There's a side-quest in the Mass Effect Citadel DLC where you do nearly 200 pull-ups to compete with James Vega. Needless to say, all content isn't mandatory. I didn't bother with finding Varric's books, and I completed the game just fine.

I also wouldn't really call delivering death notices, gathering garnets, and collecting love letters (among other fetch/FedEx quests in Origins) all that "interesting".

If you ever play again, ask your party members to handle the death notices for you. They all have unique ways of breaking the news and some of them are hilarious or totally wrong. Each companion has two responses.

Errrrrrrrrr.... um.... oh! Good news lady! You're single. - Ohgren
The man you loved has died. It seems you could have chosen better. - Sten

[Saphiron123]

If you ever play again, ask your party members to handle the death notices for you. They all have unique ways of breaking the news and some of them are hilarious or totally wrong. Each companion has two responses.

Errrrrrrrrr.... um.... oh! Good news lady! You're single. - Ohgren
The man you loved has died. It seems you could have chosen better. - Sten

And let's not forget:

Your man is dead. Get over it. - Morrigan

I actually loved that quest. I wonder if shale has any lines...

[Bioware-Critic]

I think you're right. I think BioWare know what they're doing and they don't care. Or rather, they're willing to take criticism on the chin and lose a few longtime fans and PC fans as they strive to impress the (apparently) larger and more lucrative Skyrim crowd.

And if those are their goals, so be it. But they should at least be honest with us.

Don't lead us to believe that Inquisition is the best of Origins and DA2 when seventy percent of it is actually a Skyrim-style MMO.

 

I think either they sold themselves out to EA or they don't have anything to say about it because of the financing. Because they are professional enough to know this industry and the customers of this industry. The bulk of the "new" TES buyers last time around were created by the yt-videos about the mods that Skyrim had and the fact that it was so extremely easy to play and the fact that it was only about killing and buying/selling stuff! The bulk of the "big" Skyrim crowd were NOT the typical RPG customer/player !!! Many TES fans where really livid because it was such a simplyfied TES this time around. Just like we complained a lot about DA2. Bioware sold more titles with DA:I than with DA2 but considerably less than with DA:O. It is pretty early to compare the sales numbers of DA:I and DA:O - but today the market is considerably bigger, the industry is much more fast pace and the PR drives a lot of the traffic these days which means the first few month will show where something is headed.

The only thing I take away from this is, that they, probably, never had the intention to make an "Origins-successor" and that they always "maintained their plans" to go the action rout and make "DA2-2.0"! And to make MMO-style games that try to keep up a "RPG-facade"! Kind of like a "part DA-game" for the RPG-fans and "part DA-cabaret-show" for the Bioware-romance-fans. To cover it up, for everyone, who does not buy a Bioware game just because of the romances or for the characters alone - but for everything else too. Because in the past ... BioWare - the old BioWare - made damn fine RPG's that had EVERYTHING!

 

I belong into the group of people who were waiting for them ... "to get back on track" after DA2 ... make an Origins-successor ... and elaborate on the RPG-elements and evolve these features into something more - more deep, more complex and more refined.

When I got the game and needed a break from playing DA:I after a certain amount of hours ... I was livid ... and created a Metacritic.com account and a BSN account for the first time in my life! A damn shame to what this former RPG-developer has sunken ...

 

 

 

Wuff ... As usually I wrote really heavy and negatively - damn! Okay, I mean all that as constructive criticism and obviously talk about this from a certain point of view - a subjective point of view But my experience has shown me, that most BSN members understand me - if they read between the lines - when it comes to my postings.

To clarify: I want BioWare to succeed! I just wish DA:I were a better RPG and not such a snoozefest, such a action oriented game "that simply doesn't cut it for RPG-fans" and this oversimplyfied "black sheep" of the DA-series that puts some of the mistakes of DA2 far off into second place in terms of "taboo-factor"!

(Even though they corrected a lot of DA2's mistakes in DA:I.)

 

EA really doesn't know the first thing about RPG's - safe for the fact that this genre sells less copies than the FPS-games like COD and such.

 

Well, if EA cannot sit still because RPG's aren't FPS's ...

... then they should not have bought a RPG developer - PERIOD!

[Rawgrim]

I enjoyed all the games equally.

 

I love Inquisition and can complete a playthrough doing 80% in about 50-60 hours.  Its not hard and its not difficult to have differences in the games.

 

The game is NOT WOW.  People in the day and age have become lazy and want everything handed to them in their games or they want a virtual novel with very little gameplay.

 

I got my moneys worth in Inquisition and I hope the next game is not a 20 hour game that costs $70.

 

The game developers should not pander to any side...yet there should be a reasonable compromise for ALL gamers.

 

So in order for you not to be lazy, you play a game that spoonfeeds you everything, and lets you beat all the fights by casting barrier and button mashing.

[Bioware-Critic]

So in order for you not to be lazy, you play a game that spoonfeeds you everything, and lets you beat all the fights by casting barrier and button mashing.

 

"Spoonfed" ... that's the right word for it!

 

...rofl!