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I really hope bioware moves away from this single player MMO stuff... dragon age should be about story. It's not WOW.


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#76
Hexoduen

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Having beaten DAI two times now, I have to say I enjoyed the central story. I'm also finding my playthroughs get shorter every time. I'm dragon age history I've never skipped quests before, i always do them all... and it's not size that's making me skip them, it's the rewards.

It's not gear rewards or money rewards, but story rewards.

I'm playing DAO right now as well, recently reached redcliff (doing it third instead of first) and I brought the mages to help with the situation and a party composition i never used before. Not only did I get unique dialogue in nearly every quest in redcliff that I'd never heard (and I had 6 wardens before DAI came out, old, but I replayed that game more then probably any other), but I even had the chance to play as first enchanter irving in the fade. It was awesome.

Now, you look at cassandra's unfinished business quest (this is a character quest, this is supposed to be a big deal) and there's no unique banter (one line when we meet these guys, but you never know who they are or much about what they've done). And you kill them, and you get +2 power, and when you finally kill them all in all the optional areas... nothing. Quest complete, I guess.

Varrick's red lyrium quest is the same, varrick approves, varrick has nothing to say about it. My other companions DEFINITELY have nothing to say about it... so where's the replayability? I love replaying DAO because there's new stuff to see and hear every time, I've seen all these quest have to offer already. i saw it the first time I played through.

10 years after starting DAO, I'm bringing wynne to redcliff and seeing scenes i've never seen before. I look Loghain to Ostagar with Wynne, and they have entire banter sessions I didn't know existed. Most of DAI isn't like that, if you skip all of emprise du lion, it doesn't affect the game much, you miss out on little dialogue or scenes.

And that's the problem, that's where most of the core dragon age fans are feeling disappointed, we love bioware and drgaon age, we love the stories and the little touches like seeing people's expressions when they talk (gone from most conversations, replaced with a slight zoom that's JUST like an MMO questgiver). Anyone here can boot up dragon age origins or DA2 and see story they've never seen before, and DA2 for it's recycled maps and waves of bad guys, actually has a lot to offer when you know that's coming (even if it's not world ending stuff, I did enjoy it the second time I tried it).

It's a matter of expectations, and we want bioware titles to be cinematic, personal. Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to run 30 miles across the hinterlands to deliver flowers to someone's grave and never tell the guy about it because +2 power and quest complete, and he apparently doesn't need to know.

Dragon age is an amazing IP. I don't want to see it turn into a skyrim or a WOW, because those are different games with a different feel and completely different goals. And when I get back from delivering flowers, Leliana is telling me about great battles against hordes of demons that I wasn't even a part of, about the destruction of entire armies in the arbhor wilds (I saw like 30 guys) or that the warden is knee deep in blood in the deep roads, searching for the source of the calling and the darkspawn, and I'm left thinking "I wish I could have seen that". Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see my warden again as a PC updated 10 years in the CC, but not as part of inquisition DLC because this is the inquisitor's game... but it sure sounded interesting.

The dragon fights were amazing, the best in any dragon age game, the bosses were really impersonal... not scenes introducing them, no dialogue in many cases, there were several moments i realized i was fighting a boss halfway through because he had more hit points, and he was a reskinned despair demon etc. The male desire demon offered nothing to tempt me compared to the female one in the fade who i actually had to think about before responding (and his demon forms were just recycled demons from the rifts, he could have been so unique). Now compare that to the broodmother, who had a seriously creepy lead in and was one of the most unique bosses of it's time.

The crafting is well done, I can't stress how much I miss having tactics, I mean sure have a no tactics option for new players if you like but they aren't rocket science, and they were great. The basic AI doesn't compare to the tactics we had in DAO and DA2 and I just think it's SUCH a missed opportunity with modern technology because they could be great. I miss attribute points, and building my own characters (and caring about attribute enhancing gear). I miss having items that were attribute based, which you could build your character towards. I miss a lot of the magic we used to have, that controlled the battlefield allowing us to face more opponents then we face in DAI. Wynne paralyzing a whole room to thin it out and set traps was always a lot of fun. And enemy mages used to be a threat, they had different spells and each encounter was different (barring the use of mana clash, but hey, that spell was unbalanced and I rarely used it). I miss how enemy soldiers weren't just mobs, they were unique npcs with different faces and gear, which ties into the mage thing, now they're just guys with floating books that function the same for every single faction... ice mines and fire mines + barrier, no horror spells or fireballs or cones of electricity to keep you on your toes. They no longer feel like real, living opponents, they just feel like wolves or bears, copied and pasted. With 2-3 spells.

I miss the cities with all the npcs, I hope to see a little less wilderness in the dlc.  Some of those huge maps are totally devoid of npcs with dialogue, certainly not cinematic dialogue with facial expressions and such. I miss the economy that had silver and copper, instead of one denomination because EA feels their games are too hard to learn (I promise you, we're living thinking people, basic coins don't intimidate us and elfroot shouldn't cost a sovereign 10 years after origins... it's pretty silly).

What I'm saying, and what I think a lot of people here will agree with, is that we're all really passionate about dragon age both past and present. Bioware tells the best stories in the industry, I mean people attack the ending of ME3, but the game was amazing (and if you disagree, let's focus on dragon age), and in my opinion all the mass effect games were. They tell stories with animated, lively characters that feel real. I hope this will always remain their focus, because it's why we love them, and why their games are better and more memorable then the likes of skyrim and WOW. It's the storytelling that has me thinking about another game of DAO, just to change things a bit, and I look forward to trying DAI with those decisions made. I hope to see some seriously story heavy dlc on the way, because the new maps have breadth, but I think in some ways they took away from the details that make bioware games truly special.

Anyway, that's my thoughts after two playthroughs. Sound off if you agree or disagree, but to me this MMO stuff takes away from an amazing series, and if I wanted that sort of thing, there are other, less memorable series that do it. And if this is your first dragon age, play origins and DA2 (expect recycled maps and waves of enemies, but look past that as inevitable and there's a lot to like) and see what the past games felt like.

 

I'm going to quote the entire post because it's that good. I still love Inquisition, and with the huge (and amazing  :wub: ) environments it makes sense we see more filler quests and some MMO stuff, but even so... Origins is still my favorite, the OP nailed why  ;)


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#77
Natureguy85

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Woah, woah, woah, I thought this community made it pretty clear that this is an unauthorized opinion on this forums. I mean, I completely agree and it's well written, but you're not allowed to dislike the open world and empty quests. "Just don't do them".

 

 

... which leaves the question in the room, why Casey Hudson was leaving and why they put Mac Walters in charge, now? (From the business point of view) Hopefully ME4 will learn from DA:I's fan-response in a meaningful way.

 

What? NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

 

I enjoyed all the games equally.

 

I love Inquisition and can complete a playthrough doing 80% in about 50-60 hours.  Its not hard and its not difficult to have differences in the games.

 

The game is NOT WOW.  People in the day and age have become lazy and want everything handed to them in their games or they want a virtual novel with very little gameplay.

 

I got my moneys worth in Inquisition and I hope the next game is not a 20 hour game that costs $70.

 

The game developers should not pander to any side...yet there should be a reasonable compromise for ALL gamers.

 

No, no, no! Trying to cater to everyone is a sure-fire way to get crap. They should keep Dragon Age what it was because it's how they built their fanbase. People who like other types of games can buy those types of games. But it makes business sense to change it because some people will just grab the next title in a favorite franchise. I was like that once. Mass Effect 3 taught me better.



#78
Helvetinbarbaari

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OP, i salute you! Well done nailing my thoughts about DA series spot on! It's not bad game, example, i really like the scenery and music in the Inquisition.

But like you said, it lacks the soul which we fell in love with in Oriǥins.

 

ps. dragon fights, everything on ultra, cold beer next to me on nightmare difficulty. Bring it! <3



#79
Darkly Tranquil

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DA4 will be an mmo. DA:I was the prototype for it.


I really hope Bioware aren't that silly. MMOs are a mugs game, their success rate is woeful. They might as well just take the franchise out the back and shoot it if that's really the plan. Dragon Age is a story driven franchise and MMOs and story are like oil and water.
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#80
Elhanan

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Enjoy DAI, but do not want a MMO. Besides the massive throngs of mirrored characters, lines at some quest locations, and occasional interference from Griefers, the subs are generally outside my economic limits currently. And other free methods leave me wanting, and avoid pay to win micro-transactions as that defeats the purpose, IMO.

#81
dsl08002

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You are correct OP, DAI bear the dragon age name but It has more in common with the MMORPG SWTOR.
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#82
Elhanan

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You are correct OP, DAI bear the dragon age name but It has more in common with the MMORPG SWTOR.


More DA than SWTOR, I believe. The storylines of the MQ, Companions, and side-quests linked to these are seemingly more like DA materials, as well as dialogue. Mechanics remind me of SWTOR, but DAI is smoother; Pause and Tac-Cam help combat a lot. And as some have mentioned elsewhere, SWTOR may have more cut-scenes.

#83
Serenade

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I'm going to quote the entire post because it's that good. I still love Inquisition, and with the huge (and amazing  :wub: ) environments it makes sense we see more filler quests and some MMO stuff, but even so... Origins is still my favorite, the OP nailed why  ;)


I liked reading that post even if I am not familiar with MMO games. :) I really like Inquisition, but I think alot of what has been said in that article I feel the same way. This is what kind of feedback I like to read.


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#84
Bioware-Critic

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DA4 will be an mmo. DA:I was the prototype for it.

 

Well I hope not. Because that is not where Bioware's strenght's are!

 

And I really think that they made this game this way because they want to keep this exact direction for the future - at least as their former plans were, before release. What makes me think this is ... that it plays like it is supposed to "click" with consumers of several different of types of games - like MMO or Open World games like Skyrim. Of course they always evolve as a developer and they will keep growing and evolving their plans and their strategy ... But I think what is obvious here is that they think the market of traditional RPG's is too small for them (Or certain goals - money-wise).

 

Even though everybody despises this ... "half-baked mix" of "gaming trends" ... this ... "jerk of all trades and a master of none" ...

Until they have found a profitable niche to jump on in the future - they will keep this up! Ugh ...

 

They already have ... fans! There is a certain ... market, where they already did great!

But they keep doing these "alchemical experiments" to "hit the motherload" with the casual gamers ...

... who don't exist in the real world.

 

In my mind "trends" are created by high quality content! When a company does something very good in a certain area ...

 

SP-RPG's are SP-RPG's - nothin' is ever gonna change that EVER! They only variants here are: "Good ones" and "bad ones"! There is nothing else.

You can "evolve" - but never regress to "square one" or dumb something down ... until the consumers fall asleep infront of their gaming devices!

 

Imagine they made just the "favorite fan-request" - DA:O 2 !?! With this new engine, in this new world AND pulled the big PR they did for DA:I.

 

Consumers would have bought it like hot cakes AND loved it. They would have sold even more, because of a satisfied community that would do a lot of positive "word-of-mouth advertising"!



#85
Realmzmaster

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They are all talking about combat mechanics, isn't that like saying every RPG made is like WoW... Pretty sure WoW copied RPG's..

 

Regenerating health and mana was not a staple of earlier cRPGs. It did not exist in BG1&2 or NWN. Arrows and other ammo was limited in the early cRPGs. Permadeath was the norm not the exception unless the party had the means of resurrecting the party member otherwise party member stayed dead. 

Spells in BG1,2 and NWN since they were based on D & D used the vancian casting method and not mana.

 

Taunt is strictly an MMO mechanic. Early cRPGs did not have Taunt. DAO introduced quite a few mechanics that were not used in eaelier Bioware cRPGs.


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#86
Elhanan

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Regenerating health and mana was not a staple of earlier cRPGs. It did not exist in BG1&2 or NWN. Arrows and other ammo was limited in the early cRPGs. Permadeath was the norm not the exception unless the party had the means of resurrecting the party member otherwise party member stayed dead. 
Spells in BG1,2 and NWN since they were based on D & D used the vancian casting method and not mana.
 
Taunt is strictly an MMO mechanic. Early cRPGs did not have Taunt. DAO introduced quite a few mechanics that were not used in eaelier Bioware cRPGs.


And the MMO trinity is evil.... :D

#87
Hexoduen

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Regenerating health and mana was not a staple of earlier cRPGs. It did not exist in BG1&2 or NWN. Arrows and other ammo was limited in the early cRPGs. Permadeath was the norm not the exception unless the party had the means of resurrecting the party member otherwise party member stayed dead. 

Spells in BG1,2 and NWN since they were based on D & D used the vancian casting method and not mana.

 

Taunt is strictly an MMO mechanic. Early cRPGs did not have Taunt. DAO introduced quite a few mechanics that were not used in eaelier Bioware cRPGs.

 

Speaking of mana, I dislike how Inquisition dumbed down mana to a flat 100. No matter how much Willpower I gain I keep having 100 mana... Simple that way, and stupid *disgusted noise*


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#88
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I'm just going to chime in and say that if they want to do this mmoy stuff they should go over to their SW:ToR team and ask them for advice. Because that game is full of story content to burst and it actually uses WoW mechanics. Let's take for example the collect 10 ram meat quest. The ToR team would have probably had the guy injured, not casually telling you "yeah, we can't hunt becuase the templar mage stuff, if you could, like, go hunt for us, that'd be great." while slouching in a chair; and begging you for meat, not even telling you to hunt, but just meat or foor for the people.

The quest objective would have problably been the same, with a subquest of killing some templars and mages so the villagers may actually be able to hunt. And a final conversation with the guy and maybe even some other people thanking and acknowledging if you did the subquest.

It's still a fetchquest, but the conversation's around it are made so you care about the people you're doing the task with, the subquest letting you go the extra mile if you want. Most fetch quests in ToR are built like that, some of them having a story arc if you do them, like in Tatooine where you can help a scientist deal with malfunctioning droids by trying out his gadgets in different areas.

The problem is not the big open areas or the quest themselves in my opinion. The problem is that they didn't make us care about what we were doing like Bioware usually does, and since we expect that DAI's quests are not only boring, but dissapointing too.

 

Yes, sometimes this kind of thing can be done right.

 

DAO was actually full of it. Think of Brecilian forest. Running errands for those elves, because Zathrian wouldn't allow them to go in the forest. Same deal. They all had interesting little stories and context for these quests.

 

It's really not a MMO problem. It just comes down to incompetence. Whoever wrote some of this stuff just flat out sucks.



#89
Elhanan

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Yes, sometimes this kind of thing can be done right.
 
DAO was actually full of it. Think of Brecilian forest. Running errands for those elves, because Zathrian wouldn't allow them to go in the forest. Same deal. They all had interesting little stories and context for these quests.
 
It's really not a MMO problem. It just comes down to incompetence. Whoever wrote some of this stuff just flat out sucks.


The Brecilian Forest was intriguing, but all that backtracking made this area my least favorite in the game. Still, it has the Mad Hermit, so it ain't all bad....

But the current use of cinematics is fine for myself, though I would not mind more dialogue opportunities for some NPC's.

#90
DanteYoda

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DA4 will be an mmo. DA:I was the prototype for it.

I also considered that, as i said Kingdoms of Amalur is like DA I, it was a test bed for an MMO too but the company went bottoms up before it was finished..

 

I hope Dragon Age is not going the ESO route as these games do not do well in an mmo environment..

 

I tried ESO and hated it..



#91
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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The Brecilian Forest was intriguing, but all that backtracking made this area my least favorite in the game. Still, it has the Mad Hermit, so it ain't all bad....

But the current use of cinematics is fine for myself, though I would not mind more dialogue opportunities for some NPC's.

 

Yeah, mad hermit is one of the best NPCs. Along with Slim Couldry and Wade.


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#92
DanteYoda

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Regenerating health and mana was not a staple of earlier cRPGs. It did not exist in BG1&2 or NWN. Arrows and other ammo was limited in the early cRPGs. Permadeath was the norm not the exception unless the party had the means of resurrecting the party member otherwise party member stayed dead. 

Spells in BG1,2 and NWN since they were based on D & D used the vancian casting method and not mana.

 

Taunt is strictly an MMO mechanic. Early cRPGs did not have Taunt. DAO introduced quite a few mechanics that were not used in eaelier Bioware cRPGs.

Hmm i see no mention of those being mmo features..

 

http://en.wikipedia....Health_(gaming)

http://en.wikipedia..../Magic_(gaming)



#93
Uhh.. Jonah

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The world feels empty. That's the only way I can put it. I can't name any of the NPC's in any area because they either didn't have a specified name, or their quest didn't engage me beyond, "go here, collect/fight this." 
 
I'd rather have smaller, but populated areas than the world we have now. 

There are a couple quests that were done really well, but even then they could have been improved upon by adding more explanations to why we're fighting them in an engaging manner. (Read as: not through the quest description)
 
- Mayor In Crestwood: That mission was handled very well, but I'd have liked an investigation segment in town that culminates with a confrontation of some sort. Kind of like you do research into what happened to old crestwood by interviewing people, who are more or less receptive the more you lean on/are nice to them. Which kind of technique is more effective on what town people by getting to know the town. The better you are with you investigation, the more information you get to not only arrest the mayor, but maybe find a hidden cache or something. Rewarding the player for learning about your world is how you immerse people. And don't do it through collectibles, because this isn't banjo. 
 
-The Elven Girl in crestwood. Fantastic consequence later on for a initially underwhelming encounter. Still could have been better by giving the girl a family or some kind of background. Why should I care about some girl who very eagerly made her own  decision to join the wardens? Give me some responsibility.
 
-Sullidin Keep: Ishmael was great but he could have been better. No one is going to make the deal with a demon unless they are rewarded. Give me a reward for letting Ishmael continue doing whatever he is with the red lyrium. Right now this is a facade of a choice, there is only one real choice.  
 
In all your areas that you spent all this time on, I really didn't care about because they didn't do anything to make me care. As far as I'm concerned, they were crappy intermissions between the story missions that you could fill with chest rng and spammy combat.


Bioware needs to hire you.

#94
Hexoduen

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Hmm i see no mention of those being mmo features..

 

http://en.wikipedia....Health_(gaming)

http://en.wikipedia..../Magic_(gaming)

 

While there's a lot of information to be found on Wikipedia, it's oftentimes written by amateurs leaving out important parts, or simply just including a lot of bugs  :? I'd never trust it for my main source of information, only as an addition and one to be read with very critical eyes.


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#95
Coyote X Starrk

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I really hope Bioware does not pay attention to this kind of feedback. 

 

I enjoyed DA:I more than DAO and DA2 combined. 

 

easily the best game I played last year by far. 

 

 

But hey thats just me



#96
Saphiron123

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Coyote, if you like massive maps where you get quests from discarded pieces of paper and at best a handful of NPCs, power to you. It's a sandbox though, nothing you do affects the main story at all.

I mean I did everything in the hissing wastes. It didn't change the game, it won't be different the next time around, and honestly, i don't think there was one person in the whole area who had actual dialogue.

It was devoid of story, it was pretty, but it was just a time sync that was irrelevant to the plot.

Same as Emprise. Wipe out all the Templars in the area? No impact on the story. +2 power, quest complete. Not much of a payoff.

#97
disi123

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The next Dragon Age title is probably a Real Time Strategy game or another Assassins Creed clone like Shadows of Mordor, rather than roleplaying.

 

It's only patch6, they still got some way to go to fix this.


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#98
Elhanan

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Coyote, if you like massive maps where you get quests from discarded pieces of paper and at best a handful of NPCs, power to you. It's a sandbox though, nothing you do affects the main story at all.

I mean I did everything in the hissing wastes. It didn't change the game, it won't be different the next time around, and honestly, i don't think there was one person in the whole area who had actual dialogue.

It was devoid of story, it was pretty, but it was just a time sync that was irrelevant to the plot.

Same as Emprise. Wipe out all the Templars in the area? No impact on the story. +2 power, quest complete. Not much of a payoff.


Scout Harding *j/k* and some wandering Priestess offer conversation in the Hissing Wastes. That said, I would not mind some more dialogue there either, but a barren desert may be not offer the best opportunity to expect it. And I still enjoy the treasure hunt.

As for altering the game, rescuing slaves and getting them into the Inquisition via war Table is helpful. Stopping Red Templars and Venatori goes along with other areas, though this entire area is optional. And the area hosts the best canine guarded merchant in the game; has some affect on gameplay.

#99
Saphiron123

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Ishmael was a terrible desire demon. He doesn't offer you anything of value, he certainly doesn't offer you a tough choice.

Killing him was disappointing as well, female desire demons had a really neat, unique design. A male desire demon could have been so cool, but he's just a dude, who turns into cut and paste rift demons.

#100
Elhanan

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Ishmael was a terrible desire demon. He doesn't offer you anything of value, he certainly doesn't offer you a tough choice.

Killing him was disappointing as well, female desire demons had a really neat, unique design. A male desire demon could have been so cool, but he's just a dude, who turns into cut and paste rift demons.


Also prefer the banter of DAO, but did enjoy the sarcasm he offers. And this fight actually required me to move around a bit.