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[Boost32]

 

Cole says otherwise. 

 

• Cole: You're a better Seeker than Lambert. You care about everyone.
• Cassandra: You knew Lord Seeker Lambert?
• Cole: I killed him. He cared more about stopping mages than protecting people.
• Cassandra: You... killed the Lord Seeker?
• Cole: Pathetic mages. Crush them at Andoral's Reach or starve them out. Doesn't matter which.
• Cole: I need an example, Seekers succeeding, seizing power. Overthrow the Divine, triumphant in the eyes of the Maker.
• Cassandra: I... am uncertain whether to believe you.
• Cole: You believe I killed him.

 

No its doesnt, its clearly after the attack at White Spire, he wanted to siege Andoral's Reach, the place where the rebels went after the fight.

[Sarielle]

Cole flat out states that she believes that the Templars were right in what they did. Of course he doesn't specify on what exactly she believes that the Templars were right about, but since the they were talking about the beginnings of the Mage-Templar War in Asunder we can make an educated guess. 

 

• Vivienne: Cole... you were the Ghost of the Spire.
• Cole: Yes.
• Vivienne: Your murders stirred the Circle into a frenzy. That was what brought the attention of the templars.
• Cole: The templars hurt mages.
• Vivienne: Stupid, panicking mages who became a danger to themselves and others because of you!
• Vivienne: You brought matters in the Spire to a head. Without you, there would be no rebellion.
• Vivienne: Countless deaths are on your head, demon. Are you satisfied with the result of your protection?
• Cole: You're lying. You're... twist the words right, and it will show its true form. Blood or banishment, either will suffice.
• Cole: You like the templars. You think they were right.

 

Honestly, the problem is whether were talking Pre-Kirkwall Explosion mage conditions or Post-Kirkwall Explosion mage conditions. If it's the former then you can argue that perhaps the mages in less awful Circles are being babies and unpractical about their situation and Vivienne's right, but if it's the latter with Lambert's crackdown of rights that the mages have always held, then Vivienne is indeed being a hypocritical ass whose ignoring the crimes committed by the Order during Asunder. 

 

OK, this is very cool, I'd never gotten this banter. Thanks for posting

 

I do think there's some ambiguity. What does she think the Templars were right about? Cole himself is one possibility. What does the "blood or banishment, either will suffice" reference?

 

I read the wiki on Asunder awhile back, I think I need a refresher before I can really talk intelligently about this. Seriously though, I love knowing this banter is there.

[Boost32]

OK, this is very cool, I'd never gotten this banter. Thanks for posting

 

I do think there's some ambiguity. What does she think the Templars were right about? Cole himself is one possibility. What does the "blood or banishment, either will suffice" reference?

 

I read the wiki on Asunder awhile back, I think I need a refresher before I can really talk intelligently about this. Seriously though, I love knowing this banter is there.

Vivienne never liked the rebels, they killed one of her apprentices, its shocked her (banter with Cole), she wont shed a single tear if they are dead.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Don't forget his backstory. He was a Mage hater regardless. He was Meredith 2.0, especially since he let her ge away with her abuses

 

The guy did come from Tevinter to be fair. I would probably hate all mages too if I had to personally witness the depravity of such a country on a daily basis.  

[Iakus]

 

Cole says otherwise. 

 

• Cole: You're a better Seeker than Lambert. You care about everyone.
• Cassandra: You knew Lord Seeker Lambert?
• Cole: I killed him. He cared more about stopping mages than protecting people.
• Cassandra: You... killed the Lord Seeker?
• Cole: Pathetic mages. Crush them at Andoral's Reach or starve them out. Doesn't matter which.
• Cole: I need an example, Seekers succeeding, seizing power. Overthrow the Divine, triumphant in the eyes of the Maker.
• Cassandra: I... am uncertain whether to believe you.
• Cole: You believe I killed him.

 

 

The mages holed up in Andoral's Reach, after the incident at White Spire.  Also after the Templars dissolved the Nevarran Accords, when Lambert decided the Templars were better off without the Chantry

 

Prior to that, he was willing to wait until the Divine made a decision.

[ComedicSociopathy]

No its doesnt, its clearly after the attack at White Spire, he wanted to siege Andoral's Reach, the place where the rebels went after the fight.

 

Yes, but the ultimate motivations of the man were to overthrow the Divine and for the Seekers become a true power. Like Adrian, he was looking for any excuse to get this war started.

 

Consequences be damned. 

[Boost32]

The mages holed up in Andoral's Reach, after the incident at White Spire.  Also after the Templars dissolved the Nevarran Accords, when Lambert decided the Templars were better off without the Chantry

 

Prior to that, he was willing to wait until the Divine made a decision.

And her decision was to send a assassin to kill her own templars, people who believed on her and she betrayed them, and people think it was the templars/seekers who betrayed the Chantry.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

The mages holed up in Andoral's Reach, after the incident at White Spire.  Also after the Templars dissolved the Nevarran Accords, when Lambert decided the Templars were better off without the Chantry
 
Prior to that, he was willing to wait until the Divine made a decision.

Consisting Lambert knew about the tranquil cure and tried to supress news about it, I say he would not care much about what the divine said if she supported the mages

[Boost32]

Yes, but the ultimate motivations of the man were to overthrow the Divine and for the Seekers become a true power. Like Adrian, he was looking for any excuse to get this war started.

 

Consequences be damned. 

Of course he wanted to overtrhow the Divine, she sent a assassin to kill templars and fooled him, the Divine betrayed him.

This doesnt mean he was a pure nice person, but can you blame him after what the Divine did? Would you stay with the Chantry and liste to a woman who murdered her own people?

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Of course he wanted to overtrhow the Divine, she sent a assassin to kill templars and fooled him, the Divine betrayed him.
This doesnt mean he was a pure nice person, but can you blame him after what the Divine did? Would you stay with the Chantry and liste to a woman who murdered her own people?

Considering Lambert blatantly went against the Divine's Mage meeting and starting to turn the circles into prisons, I'd say he would only care if she was a seeker puppet considering he didn't do his job when Merdith was in charge. Bet he supported Meredith's death squads killin non-mages since mages and their supporters desrve to die in his view.

How can people seriously defend this guy ?

[ComedicSociopathy]

The mages holed up in Andoral's Reach, after the incident at White Spire.  Also after the Templars dissolved the Nevarran Accords, when Lambert decided the Templars were better off without the Chantry

 

Prior to that, he was willing to wait until the Divine made a decision.

 

Sorry.

 

I assumed that these events played out before the mages had formally left the Chantry. It's hard to get a beat on the mindset of the man and whether he planned on escalating matters or how far his personal ambitions went. There's a chance that before the Divine made her decision he was more concerned about protecting the people over his obsession with stopping the mages, but I somehow doubt it.

 

Tevinter really screwed this guy up. 

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

SpeKing of this, is there anything good ever said about lambert in Inquisition?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The thing is when Greggior yells at Ivring for wanting to give more mages permission to go to Ostgar I think this portrays him as unreasonable in this contexts. In fact I could not see him as a reasonable short, after I see that scene, along with him stopping Ivring from giving me information on what I might confront in the fade during my harrowing.

 

If Greggior was completely unreasonable he would not have cancelled off the RoA, the fact that he was willing to trust Irving that the situation had been contained shows him to have some reason to his wits.

 

And him not telling you anything about the harrowing before it starts is just how the rules are IIRC.

 

Yes, his outrage over Irving's suggestion for giving more mages for support was silly, but I don't see how that one event is enough to paint him as a bad man.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Sorry.
 
I assumed that these events played out before the mages had formally left the Chantry. It's hard to get a beat on the mindset of the man and whether he planned on escalating matters or how far his personal ambitions went. There's a chance that before the Divine made her decision he was more concerned about protecting the people over his obsession with stopping the mages, but I somehow doubt it.
 
Tevinter really screwed this guy up.

Considering he was okay with mages being raped, being illegally made tranquil, and allowing death squads to kill no mages simply for associating with a Mage, I say he deserved to die

[Barquiel]

I think Vivienne would not have stood for it, no.

 

But I think she would have a different way to deal with Lambert.

Lambert tried to kill them because 1) Fiona hijacked the Conclave for her own agenda and 2) Adrien staged a murder. 

 

Justinia and the chantry tried to convince Lambert to treat mages more fairly, and they failed spectaculary. That guy was basically Meredith 2.0. There wasn't really another way to deal with him. I mean, Vivienne had probably more influence than any other mage in Orlais, but she did nothing to improve their situation...it only got worse.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

If Greggior was completely unreasonable he would not have cancelled off the RoA, the fact that he was willing to trust Irving that the situation had been contained shows him to have some reason to his wits.
 
And him not telling you anything about the harrowing before it starts is just how the rules are IIRC.
 
Yes, his outrage over Irving's suggestion for giving more mages for support was silly, but I don't see how that one event is enough to paint him as a bad man.

And him beating up a pregnant Mage?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

And him beating up a pregnant Mage?

 

 

 

Or maybe people have not necessarily read the comic and are basing their viewpoints on Gregror from what they see in the game, where he does come off as a reasonable man for the most part.

 

Context is important.

[Ryriena]

If Greggior was completely unreasonable he would not have cancelled off the RoA, the fact that he was willing to trust Irving that the situation had been contained shows him to have some reason to his wits.

And him not telling you anything about the harrowing before it starts is just how the rules are IIRC.

Yes, his outrage over Irving's suggestion for giving more mages for support was silly, but I don't see how that one event is enough to paint him as a bad man.

So him beating a pregnant mage doesn't paint him, as evil, or a *******? Or the fact he basically wanted to kill the mage warden for helping their friend under orders from Ivring.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Of course he wanted to overtrhow the Divine, she sent a assassin to kill templars and fooled him, the Divine betrayed him.

This doesnt mean he was a pure nice person, but can you blame him after what the Divine did? Would you stay with the Chantry and liste to a woman who murdered her own people?

 

 

And her decision was to send a assassin to kill her own templars, people who believed on her and she betrayed them, and people think it was the templars/seekers who betrayed the Chantry.

 

It's messes like these that make you appreciate that Inquisition is around to fix things when people sh*t the metaphorical bed. Fiona, Justinia, Clarel and Celene should all join a club or something. 

[The Baconer]

Of course he wanted to overtrhow the Divine, she sent a assassin to kill templars and fooled him, the Divine betrayed him.

This doesnt mean he was a pure nice person, but can you blame him after what the Divine did? Would you stay with the Chantry and liste to a woman who murdered her own people?

 

I can blame him before she made the decision. The Seekers had it coming.

[Bad King]

And her decision was to send a assassin to kill her own templars, people who believed on her and she betrayed them, and people think it was the templars/seekers who betrayed the Chantry.

 

By then, Lambert had already betrayed the Divine by violently interrupting a meeting of mages that she sanctioned despite her agreeing to his demands. In turn, he had convinced the Templar order to support him, and so the Divine was justified in throwing her support behind the mages to prevent the power-hungry seekers from seizing power. "Magic exists to serve man and never to rule over him" applies to seekers/templars too - they had no right to rebel against the Divine. The mage rebellion only began as a response to the seeker/templar rebellion. They would never have voted for it otherwise.

 

SpeKing of this, is there anything good ever said about lambert in Inquisition?

 

Not really. His back story is fairly interesting though it portrays him as a troubled, embittered and traumatised man rather than a just man. It explains his views but in no way justifies them.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

So him beating a pregnant mage doesn't paint him, as evil, or a *******? Or the fact he basically wanted to kill the mage warden for helping their friend under orders from Ivring.

Templar supporters claim that Mage supporters are bad yet I haven't seen one that justifies beating pregnant women

[AresKeith]

So him beating a pregnant mage doesn't paint him, as evil, or a *******? Or the fact he basically wanted to kill the mage warden for helping their friend under orders from Ivring.

 

*sigh*:

Or maybe people have not necessarily read the comic and are basing their viewpoints on Gregror from what they see in the game, where he does come off as a reasonable man for the most part.

[Ryriena]

Rolls eyes

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

By then, Lambert had already betrayed the Divine by violently interrupting a meeting of mages that she sanctioned despite her agreeing to his demands. In turn, he had convinced the Templar order to support him, and so the Divine was justified in throwing her support behind the mages to prevent the power-hungry seekers from seizing power. "Magic exists to serve man and never to rule over him" applies to seekers/templars too - they had no right to rebel against the Divine. The mage rebellion only began as a response to the seeker/templar rebellion. They would never have voted for it otherwise.

It's telling how the vote as 50/50 despite the Templars trying to kill them all. I bet rebellion never would have won if the vote was uninterrupted