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[AresKeith]

Templar supporters claim that Mage supporters are bad yet I haven't seen one that justifies beating pregnant women

 

Is this an alt account of Darkone?

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Rolls eyes

And here I was believing the temple supporter double standard ws only a myth. Guess I should have known better

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

So him beating a pregnant mage doesn't paint him, as evil, or a *******?

 

Did you even remember my first post?

 

I said that it is understandable why people spoke well of Greggior since many have not read the comic and only have the game to go on. And in DA:O he does come off as a well-meaning and mostly reasonable man. You made a post where you thought he did come off as unreasonable in DA:O and explained why. And then I made my last post to try to explain why I thought he seemed like a decent man based only on how he is presented in the game.

 

Of course, beating a pregnant woman is repugnant, but most players don't have knowledge of him doing that since it's shown in a comic.

[Xilizhra]

The guy did come from Tevinter to be fair. I would probably hate all mages too if I had to personally witness the depravity of such a country on a daily basis.  

That's absurd. Even Fenris didn't hate all mages.

[AresKeith]

That's absurd. Even Fenris didn't hate all mages.

 

You sure about that? Because every other sentence was basically that

[mikeymoonshine]

I do think Vivienne is ultimately wrong about the timing issue because at that point there was little other option but she is partially right in that certain people did push for the rebellion at the worst time possible before that point. That contributed to all of the disasters that followed. 

[Xilizhra]

 

• Vivienne: Cole... you were the Ghost of the Spire.
• Cole: Yes.
• Vivienne: Your murders stirred the Circle into a frenzy. That was what brought the attention of the templars.
• Cole: The templars hurt mages.
• Vivienne: Stupid, panicking mages who became a danger to themselves and others because of you!
• Vivienne: You brought matters in the Spire to a head. Without you, there would be no rebellion.
• Vivienne: Countless deaths are on your head, demon. Are you satisfied with the result of your protection?
• Cole: You're lying. You're... twist the words right, and it will show its true form. Blood or banishment, either will suffice.
• Cole: You like the templars. You think they were right.

Wait, Vivienne was trying to set up one of my other companions to be killed? Why can't we remove her from the Inquisition again?

[Bad King]

It's telling how the vote as 50/50 despite the Templars trying to kill them all. I bet rebellion never would have won if the vote was uninterrupted

 

Yep, it's why the Libertarians were so desperately seeking Wynne's support prior to the meeting - they had no hope of winning without it and she wasn't going to agree to it. Lambert would have done better to simply let the mages vote against freedom. Even if they had voted for it (which wouldn't have happened), the Chantry could simply have declined. Attacking a load of mage leaders and limiting their freedoms even more is asking for trouble, though Lambert clearly wasn't a particularly rational man.

[Xilizhra]

You sure about that? Because every other sentence was basically that

Extremely. He didn't hate Hawke/Bethany.

[Boost32]

I can blame him before she made the decision. The Seekers had it coming.

Im talking about the decision to leave the Chantry, I know Lambert had his part of blame for the rebellion (just like Justinia, Fiona, Adrian, Cole, etc), but I will not blame him for leaving the Chantry after the Divine betrayed the templars and tried to trick him.

[Bad King]

You sure about that? Because every other sentence was basically that

 

If you befriend him as a mage he tells you how you're the finest mage he has known and toasts your friendship.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Im talking about the decision to leave the Chantry, I know Lambert had his part of blame for the rebellion (just like Justinia, Fiona, Adrian, Cole, etc), but I will not blame him for leaving the Chantry after the Divine betrayed the templars and tried to trick him.

Lambert outright disobeyed a direct order to not interfere in he Mage vote. He obviously wasn't willing to follow her orders before.

[ComedicSociopathy]

That's absurd. Even Fenris didn't hate all mages.

 

I'm not defending the guy or justifying his acts with having seen mage abuses firsthand in Tevinter. He's still a nutjob but I do understand how he became such a nutjob. 

 

And Fenris...

 

• Anders: You ever going to stop harping on the mages here?
• Fenris: No.
• Anders: They aren't what you saw in Tevinter.
• Fenris: The moment they are free, mages will make themselves magisters.
• Anders: They're slaves! You should want to help them.
• Fenris: I don't.

 

The man had issues with mages for most of Dragon Age 2, to say the least. Almost every conversation between him and Merrill and Anders is volatile. 

[Bad King]

Im talking about the decision to leave the Chantry, I know Lambert had his part of blame for the rebellion (just like Justinia, Fiona, Adrian, Cole, etc), but I will not blame him for leaving the Chantry after the Divine betrayed the templars and tried to trick him.

 

He'd already made the first move of the rebellion when he interrupted the mage meeting sanctioned by the Divine. He had no right to violently attack the mage leaders simply because he didn't approve of the vote that the Grand Enchanter was proposing. He disobeyed the Divine's authority and so needed to be punished/apprehended. Justinia's only hope was to throw her support behind the mages who were still loyal to the Chantry in order to curb the power-hungry seekers and their Templars.

[Boost32]

He'd already made the first move of the rebellion when he interrupted the mage meeting sanctioned by the Divine. He had no right to violently attack the mage leaders simply because he didn't approve of the vote that the Grand Enchanter was proposing. He disobeyed the Divine's authority and so needed to be punished/apprehended. Justinia's only hope was to throw her support behind the mages who were still loyal to the Chantry in order to curb the power-hungry seekers and their Templars.

And how this make her decision to kill her own man right? If she wanted to punish someone, it should be Lambert, not the templars who were at her service.

And there is no need to tell me that Lambert had his part on the war, I know he is not innocent, but him leave the Chantry after what the Divine did was a right decision.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

And how this make her decision to kill her own man right? If she wanted to punish someone, it should be Lambert, not the templars who were at her service.
And there is no need to tell me that Lambert had his part on the war, I know he is not innocent, but him leave the Chantry after what the Divine did was a right decision.

Lambert was obviously attempting to rebel before the divine intervened.

[Bad King]

And how this make her decision to kill her own man right? If she wanted to punish someone, it should be Lambert, not the templars who were at her service.

And there is no need to tell me that Lambert had his part on the war, I know he is not innocent, but him leave the Chantry after what the Divine did was a right decision.

 

No, I was disputing your statement that the Divine was betraying the Seekers and Templars by helping the mages. The Templars in the White Spire were following and obeying Lambert's orders; in an ideal world, she could have punished Lambert alone while the other Templars turned against him. But that's not how their organisation works - as a military hierarchy, they obeyed their Seeker's orders and went against the Divine (after being convinced by Lambert that they were in the right) so the Divine had no choice but to go up against all of the Templars of the White Spire, excepting those who'd defied Lambert's treachery (Evangeline). Her move wasn't against all Templars, it was only against those in the Spire who were defying her authority. Then, Lambert removed all of the Templar leaders that were against him, replacing them with yes men who supported his treason.

[Sarielle]

Should we change the thread title to "Lambert isn't THAT bad"?   Vivienne, people! Vivienne!

 

Read a bit on Asunder on my break, but no time to finish right now. :B

[Boost32]

No, I was disputing your statement that the Divine was betraying the Seekers and Templars by helping the mages. The Templars in the White Spire were following and obeying Lambert's orders; in an ideal world, she could have punished Lambert alone while the other Templars turned against him. But that's not how their organisation works - as a military hierarchy, they obeyed their Seeker's orders and went against the Divine (after being convinced by Lambert that they were in the right) so the Divine had no choice but to go up against all of the Templars of the White Spire, excepting those who'd defied Lambert's treachery (Evangeline). Her move wasn't against all Templars, it was only against those in the Spire who were defying her authority. Then, Lambert removed all of the Templar leaders that were against him, replacing them with yes men who supported his treason.

I didnt said she betrayed because she helped the mages, I said she betrayed them because she sent a assassin to KILL the templars, if this is not betrayal I dont know what is.

And Lambert didnt betrayed the Divine, the meeting was not about mages leaving the Chantry, it was about reforms of the Circle of Magi, Fiona changed the subject. And the attack came after the mages refused to hand over Rhys, who was a suspect of murder (thanks to Adrian).

But no he wasnt right to call the attack, he was tricked by  Adrian and without his attack the mages probably would not revolt, but he didnt betrayed the Divine and he was not the sole agent for the rebellion to start.

[Xilizhra]

Should we change the thread title to "Lambert isn't THAT bad"?   Vivienne, people! Vivienne!

 

Read a bit on Asunder on my break, but no time to finish right now. :B

After realizing that Vivienne actually tried to get Cole killed in one banter, I'm never recruiting the ****** ****** again.

[Boost32]

After realizing that Vivienne actually tried to get Cole killed in one banter, I'm never recruiting the ****** ****** again.

Vivienne has a trauma of Fade beings, while initially she hates Cole and want him gone, lates she comes to care about him and is worried about someone biding him, Cole can see it and says she will never admit it because she thinks it makes her weak and vows to never reveal it to anyone.

And if you want to blame her for wanting to kill Cole, you should blame Cassandra and Cullen too, they had the same reaction before knowing him.

[Sarielle]

After realizing that Vivienne actually tried to get Cole killed in one banter, I'm never recruiting the ****** ****** again.

 

Aww, but even the ones you don't like reveal more about the story. It's hard to read tone/intent on the internet, but if you're expecting me to argue with you disliking her over that then you have me pegged wrong.

 

Also, what Boost said. Their relationship does change, but if you never recruit them you'll never know.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Vivienne has a trauma of Fade beings, while initially she hates Cole and want him gone, lates she comes to care about him and is worried about someone biding him, Cole can see it and says she will never admit it because she thinks it makes her weak and vows to never reveal it to anyone.

And if you want to blame her for wanting to kill Cole, you should blame Cassandra and Cullen too, they had the same reaction before knowing him.

 

Aside from Solas and Varric, aren't most weary of Cole?

[Boost32]

Aside from Solas and Varric, aren't most weary of Cole?

Besides them, Iron bull doesnt seems to care and Leliana is not afraid of him (since she already know him), but the others are scared and they say he is dangerous.

[Xilizhra]

Vivienne has a trauma of Fade beings, while initially she hates Cole and want him gone, lates she comes to care about him and is worried about someone biding him, Cole can see it and says she will never admit it because she thinks it makes her weak and vows to never reveal it to anyone.

And if you want to blame her for wanting to kill Cole, you should blame Cassandra and Cullen too, they had the same reaction before knowing him.

Fearing spirits is one thing. Wanting them dead in the abstract is another. But actually trying to entrap one into getting killed in the party? That's the kind of thing that should get you kicked out at minimum.

Not that Cassandra or Cullen are blameless.

 

 

Aww, but even the ones you don't like reveal more about the story. It's hard to read tone/intent on the internet, but if you're expecting me to argue with you disliking her over that then you have me pegged wrong.

 

Also, what Boost said. Their relationship does change, but if you never recruit them you'll never know.

I understand that, but the fact that I can neither remove her from the Inquisition nor even bring this up is... extremely frustrating.