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[ComedicSociopathy]

& if you are in a situation where shite well and truly hit the fan...Would you save yourself first or try to save other people ?

 

Seriously though, I know our characters are not us but to understand Vivienne is to understand politicians...What kind of politician would spend their time saving people during trouble ? Politicians would be more interested in saving their arses. 

 

The Inquisitor is spending most of the game helping random people with their problems and as a consequence they gain agents and followers. Corporal Vale's Irregulars, Horsemaster Dennet, Fairbanks, Clemence, etc. It pays to look like you give a poop about the little people instead of being a politician that saves their own ass the moment things get hairy. In fact, looking like the noble, peasant-saving, baby kissing, front-line commander is exactly the sort of thing a politician would try to do to gain good PR and power from the masses. You definitely don't want rumors of the Inquisitor abandoning his followers in their direst moment of need. 

 

Vivienne should of known that and should have been confident in her own abilities that she could save those at Haven while at the same time managing to survive the attack herself. She is a Knight-Enchanter after all, so she's basically immortality anyways. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Politicians are fake, Vivienne's a politician, Vivienne is fake. Just how I see it.

 

Now her not being evil I would agree with. I think she has her priorities in the wrong place, but that certainly doesn't make her evil. 

 

The politican thing is kind of extreme. I mean Josephine's basically the Inquisition's politician and she's definitely sincere and kind for the most part. 

 

Also, I can't help but agree with some of her condemnation of the Mage Rebellion, or at least Fiona's handling of the rebellion. 

[Heidirs]

The politican thing is kind of extreme. I mean Josephine's basically the Inquisition's politician and she's definitely sincere and kind for the most part. 

 

I think of Josephine as a diplomat rather than a politician... Vivienne is trying to keep up appearances for everyone and Josephine is trying to negotiate to seal the breach and stop the war. There's a difference, but I can see where you are going there.

 

EDIT: Found a better definition: http://www.quora.com...s-and-Diplomacy

 

Politics refers to the interactions surrounding governance and decision-making in general. Whether it's family politics, politics within a school, a country's government, or international politics - politics describes the current state of relationships and how groups are/should/will behave in order to a promote their interests. 

Diplomacy is the sub-set of politics dealing with peace. When a friend speaks kindly to stop a fight or concedes a point without argument, you may hear the comment, "How diplomatic." When nations begin wars or fighting erupts between groups within a country, "Diplomacy has failed." Almost any political action that deals with the prevention or cessation of physical violence can be considered diplomacy.

 

So that part above about "how groups are/should/will behave in order to promote their interests - that's fake.  It's a personal view, though, and one that illustrates my point about Vivienne which is why I used it, but I can understand why it might not translate for other people.

[DragonNerd]

The people you hate are the nobles in the Wicked Hearts ball.  Vivienne can play the game but I don't think she comes across as fake, as a matter of fact she usually doesn't hold back in expressing her opinion whether positive or negative.  Personally I hate liars, but I never really noticed her lying to me or even manipulate, because I can ask her about her intentions and she never denied about wanting the Divine throne.

 

The rude and snarky comments though is a valid point, that is due to her personality and sense of being better than those around her.  I usually find it funny though as its never malicious.  Comments about the Hinterlands smelling like wet dog.  And praising the Inquisitor for his/her choice of places to explore when they enter a dark, wet cave.

 

 

Viv and Blackwall is even better.  She sees him as a lowlife thug.... lol.  Not too far off from the truth to be fair.

 

Vivienne manipulates you right from the start. She sets up that noble to attack you at her party so she can step in and tell him off. She wins your trust and gets closer to power in one stroke. She's like a spider weaving a web, damn her. 

 

I dislike her. I don't don't need her to kiss my butt or constantly agree with me. What I need is for her to not give me a tongue lashing every time she doesn't agree with something I do (there are other ways to disagree with a person). I have disagreed with plenty of other characters, and none of them sunk as low as personal insults (besides Sera -- the other character who gets the most "flak"). Why? Because Vivienne is frustrated that you aren't playing into her hands by doing what she wants, so she takes it out on you. If you free the mages and dismantle the Circles, she isn't worried about anyone's safety (but possibly her own). She's just pissed she won't get to play First Enchanter and lord it over her peers.

 

To her credit, she stays til the bitter end. But I honestly feel as if she is more concerned about gaining power for selfish reasons than stopping Corypheus. And I refuse to believe she cares anything about mages. She has yet to show me that she cares about anyone but Vivienne. 

 

*goes back to lurking*

[lil yonce]

Its great she isn't homophobic, but homosexuality is widely accepted in Orlais and Vivienne has adopted all its beliefs. This merely makes her consistent with the elite, and you can take many an issue with the other values of the Orlesian elite.

[Suledin]

Yeah, Viv is a badass. I'm gonna give nightmare a go soonish because I really want that last achievement. I'll be sure to drag Viv along with me pretty much everywhere. 

Got them all on PS4 with Vivienne in party on nightmare. 

[BioWareM0d13]

 

Also, I can't help but agree with some of her condemnation of the Mage Rebellion, or at least Fiona's handling of the rebellion. 

 

Vivienne was mostly spot on in her condemnation of the mage rebellion. She's clearly a much smarter woman than Fiona, regardless of what one thinks about her politics. 

[Fredward]

The more I hang out with Viv the more I like her. Even though I disagree with basically every single thing that comes out of her mouth.

[SotiCoto]

I dislike Vivienne for much the same reason I like Sera:  I'm basically classist... 
Vivienne is a posh toff tw4t... completely stuck up her own arse. 
To make matters worse... she is directly opposed to my general philosophy in the game... which is frankly closer to that of Awakening-era Anders.

At least on the upside, I get to play dress-up with my characters... so I like putting Vivienne in horribly clashing colours. =D
I know she is crying inside. 



Wish she coulda kept the mask though. Some of the masks are cool... 

 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Vivienne was mostly spot on in her condemnation of the mage rebellion. She's clearly a much smarter woman than Fiona, regardless of what one thinks about her politics. 

 

Sera's a much smarter women than Fiona. It's not much of an achievement. 

[Masque]

Got them all on PS4 with Vivienne in party on nightmare. 

 

I didn't use her during my hard run because I was rolling a KE in that playthrough. I'll use her for sure on nightmare. I'm just not sure what a good build would be for nightmare as I don't really wanna do KE again. Any suggestions?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Vivienne is divine.   

[robertmarilyn]

 Vivienne is divine.   

 

Not in MY games! 

[BubbleDncr]

On my second playthrough I played a very Andrastian character, and she and Vivienne got along famously. Vivienne is amazing when you get along with her. 

[Cantina]

Just because a villain stops to hug a puppy does not make him/her no longer what they are-a villain.

 

Vivienne can go take a nice long walk off the hundred pillars and fall to her death by being impaled on red lyrium and allow her to rot there because the vultures would not want to even feast on her corpse.

[AxholeRose]

On my second playthrough I played a very Andrastian character, and she and Vivienne got along famously. Vivienne is amazing when you get along with her. 

 

So much this.  I never realized she had a bad side until i saw some youtube vids, and i was shocked at how passive aggressive she was.  But then if you ****** her off to the point of great disapproval, then of course everything she says will have the purpose of pissing you off, and judging from the fan reactions I'd say she got exactly what she wanted 

[Barquiel]

Vivienne gets a lot of hate because she has opinions that are unpopular with a lot of the fanbase. She is pro-Chantry and supports the Circle system, which has a lot of the mage fanboys/fangirls conditioned to hate her from the start. Personally I'm glad she wasn't yet another rebel mage. Between Morrigan and Anders we already had enough of those. Another unforgivable sin for many is that she doesn't worship at the altar of all things Inquisitor. If she thinks your character is a dunce who is running the Inquisition improperly, she'll tell you so. I see that as a positive trait, but some fans get irritated when companion characters break from telling the protagonist how awesome or special he or she is.

 
I don't think many people hate her solely because of her views. I mean, some "pro-chantry" or "pro-circle" characters (Wynne, Cassandra and Cullen come to my mind) are very popular. It's more that Vivienne shows a huge lack of empathy...and generally comes across as hypocritical. Making the PC stupid when talking to her doesn't help either, of course.

[citizen002057394]

Vivienne sure knows how to get what she wants and I can't hate her for that. She was divine in my playthrough and even though she may have pulled some strings behind my back to make it happen I was completely fine with it because there's no doubt she would be a successful divine and her reformed circles seemed to be the best solution for both the mages and the non mages of Thedas.

 

Team Vivi!

[Fredward]

 
I don't think many people hate her solely because of her views. I mean, some "pro-chantry" or "pro-circle" characters (Wynne, Cassandra and Cullen come to my mind) are very popular. It's more that Vivienne shows a huge lack of empathy...and generally comes across as hypocritical. Making the PC stupid when talking to her doesn't help either, of course.

 

Vivienne shows a lot of empathy, she's just not obvious about it.

[SotiCoto]

 
I don't think many people hate her solely because of her views. I mean, some "pro-chantry" or "pro-circle" characters (Wynne, Cassandra and Cullen come to my mind) are very popular. It's more that Vivienne shows a huge lack of empathy...and generally comes across as hypocritical. Making the PC stupid when talking to her doesn't help either, of course.

I mostly disliked Wynne. I disliked her stupid religious grandmother routine. 
She had precisely two reasons for being kept around though:

#1. I needed more mages. 
#2. The endless hilarity of pestering her about Griffons. 

 

[Fredward]

#2. The endless hilarity of pestering her about Griffons.

 

Are there gryphons in it?

[citizen002057394]

Vivienne shows a lot of empathy, she's just not obvious about it.

 

I noticed in battles she would be the one calling Sera and Cole when they have low health or they're dying lol.

 

But I prefer my Vivienne hard. I don't go to her looking for empathy 

[SotiCoto]

Are there gryphons in it?

[Personette]

 
I don't think many people hate her solely because of her views. I mean, some "pro-chantry" or "pro-circle" characters (Wynne, Cassandra and Cullen come to my mind) are very popular. It's more that Vivienne shows a huge lack of empathy...and generally comes across as hypocritical. Making the PC stupid when talking to her doesn't help either, of course.

 

Personally, I like the pro-Chantry/circle characters because I see them on an arc that trends AWAY from dogmatism rather than TOWARDS it. So even though Cassandra has spent her whole life bolstering the system, when the war comes she questions all her views & starts thinking about what needs to change. Ditto Cullen--he served the Templars as well as he was able, but the second he got out, he started cutting ties. 

 

I think that Vivienne had the opposite experience. Her involvement with the rebellion has made her more dogmatic, more focused on order at any expense. 

 

To me, that's pretty scary. 

[Sarielle]

Vivi can be a ******, but she's so good at it. 

 

I do think her pro-Circle stance is what gets her most of the hate -- though of course I realize some simply won't like her personality. But the fact that she's pro-Circle and makes excellent points in favor of it makes a lot of folks cranky imo. EDIT: That and she bluntly tells you when she thinks you're being dumb about something.

 

I've thoroughly enjoyed both my playthrough where she was buds with my Quizzy and the one where she hated Quizzy's guts. They're both brilliant imo.