824 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

 

That doesn't change the gutting of any possible roleplayed response to what Vivienne tried.

What?  She thought Cole was a demon.  A potential threat to the Inquisition that she needed to expose  And her attitude changes over time.

[Nefla]

Agreed.  She's one of my favorite characters in the game for sure.  She offers a unique perspective on many of the events that transpire.  Beneath her nobily, gamey exterior she's a good woman.  Plus she's irresistably sassy.

Sass and class, the winning combo

[Xilizhra]

What?  She thought Cole was a demon.  A potential threat to the Inquisition that she needed to expose  And her attitude changes over time.

And she went behind my back to try to kill one of my comrades. That is not acceptable.

[Sarielle]

And she went behind my back to try to kill one of my comrades. That is not acceptable.

 

That was before though, right? Before the Inquisition was even formed?

 

/has been enjoying discussions on how badly Quiz can screw Vivi's endgame up

[Xilizhra]

That was before though, right? Before the Inquisition was even formed?

 

/has been enjoying discussions on how badly Quiz can screw Vivi's endgame up

I was referring to Cole.

[Orian Tabris]

I like Vivienne. She reminds me a lot of Morrigan, only less evil, and more neutral. An all round likeable character, from a real person's view. Only anyone who exists in the world Vivienne exists in, can understandably hate her. Real people who hate her are just crybabies.

 

Spoiler

/end thread

[Sarielle]

I was referring to Cole.

 

... I know? I could be confused about the timing of that. I'm still reading Asunder synopsis, dangit. Don't judge me.

[Iakus]

And she went behind my back to try to kill one of my comrades. That is not acceptable.

SHe went behind your back to try and expose what she thought was a demon

[DanteYoda]

I haven't figured out why she seems to dislike Blackwall so much, though. While he definitely instigates some of it later, it seemed like she started being snide with him for no reason at the start. I coulda missed some banter, though. The playthrough I used her a ton I flipflopped between taking Blackwall and Cass a lot.

She doesn't really like anyone, maybe the husband on the death bed, but in the actual game i've not really seen her say anything good about anyone.

[KaiserShep]

She speaks positively about Cassandra, and the Inquisitor if she's feeling friendly. While this could be duplicity on her part, we don't have proof for it.

[DanteYoda]

I like Vivienne. She reminds me a lot of Morrigan, only less evil, and more neutral. An all round likeable character, from a real person's view. Only anyone who exists in the world Vivienne exists in, can understandably hate her. Real people who hate her are just crybabies.

 

Spoiler

/end thread

Morrigan Started out distant and unlikable but by the end of Origins she respected you and even liked/loved the player, Vivienne never really changed the whole time, she was deceitful, evil and as anti social as she was at the beginning when you met her.

 

I didn't Romance Vivienne but i did do all her approval rankings and she was still a horrible person to me, the other companions and everyone.

 

If i ever hear another condescending Darling it'll be too soon..

[esper]

I have a question since I have trouble getting banter and I don't use Vivienne enough to have heard all her banter.

 

Did she really try to kill/banish Cole, if so does someone has a transcript of that banter.

[Urzon]

Wait...you guys really think someone who climbed her way to the top is just going to what? Surrender and give up because it's a bit harder to gain more influence?
 
Vivienne strikes me as the type to roll with the punches if she has to.

Basically this.

Even if she hates everything that Leliana is doing with Chantry, especially freeing all the mages which she sees as a disaster waiting to happen, that isn't going to stop her from playing the Game in Orlais. If anything, that is only going to free her up to do more. She's in the good graces of the Empress (if Celene is still alive), and Gaspard would probably at least respect her for being one of the key members, whether you used her or not, of the Inquisition. Not to mention, we know she is in good standings with the Council of Heralds from her relationship with Bastien.

Since mages are free in this scenario, she could probably easily gain for herself a title (whether a honorary title or outright nobility) and possible some land if she wants. Vivienne might not like Lelianna as Divine, but she might like how she opened up more avenues for her to use though.

[Boost32]

Just noticed something about Vivienne in the Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts quest. No matter choices you take and which ruler you put on the throne, her approval doesn't change. Allow Celene to get killed. Nothing. Let Briala control Gaspard. Nothing.

Strange, yeah. You'd think you she would get some kind of disapproval response if you kill Celene, but I then again, Vivienne does think that empathy and concern for others is a weakness, and Celene did pass her over for Morrigan as her personal court wizard.

Does she say anything about the aftermath of the quest if Celene gets killed?

A banter with Cole she says she took steps to ensure she gained more influence.

It's boost. He outright admitted his assumptions don't have any evidence. At least people like me use facts to support arguments rather than assumptions.

No I didn't, I used facts like the banter with Cole where she says she made sure to gain more influence even with Celene death, the banter with Cole where he says Celene didn't want her to leave and respect her, in the end she say she will leave to rally the loyalist mages ( and you said Celene needing help), etc. But this os BSN, even if you use facts people will ignore those and I dont want to be dragged into endless discussions.
And I will admit that some times you use facts, the majority its pure speculation =P

[Silcron]

I don't hate the character. I hate that the writers won't allow me to argue with her becasue she has to drop the mic with every phrase, darling. Cut half or allow people (some npcs and you) to retort to the phrases with darling and it would be a much better experience. That's why I like Solas/Vivienne banter, they both give and receive from each other; but the inquisitor just takes it. Like in the instance when she moves your stuff around.

You're the inquisitor, why don't you have the option to do something about this mage moving your stuff around? Because Viv has to drop the metaphorical microphone because she's really good at the Great Game, darling.

[Han Shot First]

Morrigan Started out distant and unlikable but by the end of Origins she respected you and even liked/loved the player, Vivienne never really changed the whole time, she was deceitful, evil and as anti social as she was at the beginning when you met her.

 

 

 

That's wrong actually. I'm guessing you've only done pro-rebel mage playthroughs where you garner lots of disapproval from Vivienne.

 

Vivienne is quite friendly if your Inquisitor is on good terms with her. It's the same as with Morrigan. Try choosing the Templars and selecting pro-Chantry dialogue.

[Assassino01]

Wait...you guys really think someone who climbed her way to the top is just going to what? Surrender and give up because it's a bit harder to gain more influence?

 

Vivienne strikes me as the type to roll with the punches if she has to.

 

I don't think she is going to lie down and surrender. But if the Inquisitior does not take a very specific course of action (recruit templars, Celene on throne, Viv or Cas as Divine), then her power will be significantly diminished by the end of the game.  If the player is pro mage then Viv's power is almost entirely gone by the end of the game, and it is doubtful she can sleep her way to the top with yet another duke.

 

Basically this.

Even if she hates everything that Leliana is doing with Chantry, especially freeing all the mages which she sees as a disaster waiting to happen, that isn't going to stop her from playing the Game in Orlais. If anything, that is only going to free her up to do more. She's in the good graces of the Empress (if Celene is still alive), and Gaspard would probably at least respect her for being one of the key members, whether you used her or not, of the Inquisition. Not to mention, we know she is in good standings with the Council of Heralds from her relationship with Bastien.

Since mages are free in this scenario, she could probably easily gain for herself a title (whether a honorary title or outright nobility) and possible some land if she wants. Vivienne might not like Lelianna as Divine, but she might like how she opened up more avenues for her to use though.

 

We do not know how good her standing with Celene is, considering the empress seems to have shifted her favour to Morrigan by Inquisition. Would Celene take Vivienne back now that there is no gain from doing so? I personally doubt it. But I admit it could happen, if Celene is a political halfwit. Also, if the Inquisitor is on bad terms with Vivienne then I doubt it would be wise for anyone to associate with her. 

Having slept with a member of the council of heralds does not mean any of the others have any use for her once she can no longer influence bastion. The Game and its players have no use for simple affection or friendship.

 

Gaining a noble title is no easy feat, as Josephine's quest shows. And she was attempting to reinstate a formerly great and respected noble house. Vivienne is a mage. No matter what the chantry says there will be suspicion toward mages, and especially mages holding land and titles for a long while. Also, she unlike the family we make nobility in Josie's quest, does not have a powerful world saving organization behind her.

 

In some scenarios I think it more likely she will end up closer to what Alistair may be reduced to in DA2.

[Orian Tabris]

Morrigan Started out distant and unlikable but by the end of Origins she respected you and even liked/loved the player, Vivienne never really changed the whole time, she was deceitful, evil and as anti social as she was at the beginning when you met her.

 

I didn't Romance Vivienne but i did do all her approval rankings and she was still a horrible person to me, the other companions and everyone.

 

If i ever hear another condescending Darling it'll be too soon..

 

Of course not! You're a robot! You can't romance her.

[daveliam]

Wait, Vivienne was trying to set up one of my other companions to be killed? Why can't we remove her from the Inquisition again?

 

Xil, I've read that piece of banter at least 6 times now and I, for the life of me, cannot understand where you see Vivienne trying to kill Cole.  Can you explain to me what it is that you are seeing?  Because all I see is Vivienne realizing that Cole was the Ghost of the Spire and then condemning him for being the cause of the rebellion.  I don't see anything about her trying to get him killed.

[Ieldra]

If i ever hear another condescending Darling it'll be too soon..

Same here. I tend to avoid talking to her at all, and I almost never take her with me. If I do, I rationalize that my Inquisitor takes her sh*t in order to find out what she's up to, which is unfortunately necessary because I can't afford to not know with her.

 

Given how specific my various Inquisitors' preferences are, I have a lot of somewhat antagonistic debate with at least two followers in each game. I enjoy that. It sharpens the profiles of both the NPC an my Inquisitor, and I usually respect them in spite of our disagreements, with Cassandra being the best example. Vivienne? Ideological opposition does not prevent being on good terms. Condescension does.   

[daveliam]

In some scenarios I think it more likely she will end up closer to what Alistair may be reduced to in DA2.

 

I'd say that the worst case scenario for Vivienne would be if you:

• Ally with the rebel mages
• Put Gaspard on the Orlesian Throne
• Put a 'hardened' Leliana on the Sunburst Throne

In this case, the circles get disbanded, so she loses out on her loyalist powerbase and the opportunity to be First Enchanter.  Without Celene, she loses out on her prestige from the Orlesian Court and, since Gaspard despises The Game, she'll likely find few allies there.  And, with Leliana as Divine, she'll not only see the system that she supports completely torn apart, but if she openly opposes Leliana, she'll likely be killed.  I suspect that the best she can do is retire to whatever estate she can afford with whatever Bastien left her and live off of that. 

[LOLandStuff]

Xil, I've read that piece of banter at least 6 times now and I, for the life of me, cannot understand where you see Vivienne trying to kill Cole.  Can you explain to me what it is that you are seeing?  Because all I see is Vivienne realizing that Cole was the Ghost of the Spire and then condemning him for being the cause of the rebellion.  I don't see anything about her trying to get him killed.

 

She was thinking about it. And by Xil, thinking it is like acting on it. Makes sense...Don't you see it?

[daveliam]

She was thinking about it. And by Xil, thinking it is like acting on it. Makes sense...Don't you see it?

 

The "twist the words right and it will reveal it's true form; blood or banishment either will suffice" thing?

 

My take on it is this:  She thinks he's a demon and is trying to trick him into revealing himself so that they can kill the demon.  Since he's not a demon, she doesn't try to kill him.  And, after his personal quest, she realizes that he's not a threat anymore and then she starts to care about his well-being. 

[LOLandStuff]

The "twist the words right and it will reveal it's true form; blood or banishment either will suffice" thing?

 

My take on it is this:  She thinks he's a demon and is trying to trick him into revealing himself so that they can kill the demon.  Since he's not a demon, she doesn't try to kill him.  And, after his personal quest, she realizes that he's not a threat anymore and then she starts to care about his well-being. 

 

I may not like Vivienne but I completely understand that dialogue. I'm not going to judge her over something she's been thinking that I'm not even supposed to know.

Cole googling people's head is just creepy. And I'm sure everyone besides Solas at least once thought about a "what if" scenario where they'd kill him.

[Urzon]

We do not know how good her standing with Celene is, considering the empress seems to have shifted her favour to Morrigan by Inquisition. Would Celene take Vivienne back now that there is no gain from doing so? I personally doubt it. But I admit it could happen, if Celene is a political halfwit. Also, if the Inquisitor is on bad terms with Vivienne then I doubt it would be wise for anyone to associate with her.

Morrigan was Celene's personally Arcane Advisor. Vivienne was the Court Enchanter. Those are two different positions. Morrigan seems to have handled only Celene's magically affairs and questions. Vivienne, on the other hand, handled the entire courts magically affairs, and that includes the Council of Heralds. That's a prime position because it allows the Court Enchanter to meet and form ties and connections with all the powerful people of Orlais.

So unless Morrigan's Arcane Advisor role gets expanded to the entire court, if she actually goes back to Orlais after the game's events anyway, or Gaspard decides to replace her, Vivienne will most likely go back to her job as Court Enchanter after she leaves the Inquisition.
 

Having slept with a member of the council of heralds does not mean any of the others have any use for her once she can no longer influence bastion. The Game and its players have no use for simple affection or friendship.

Everyone has a use in the Game, especially one as influential as Vivienne. She might have gotten the Court Enchanter position because of her relationship with Bastien, but she was only able to keep it by forging connections with the rest of the Court and making a great deal of people respeact and/or fear her.

The players of the Game might have no use for simple affection or friendship, but they do have use for people that have power and influence. Which is something that Vivienne has in spades whether you like her or not. This is greatly shown by her possibly openly killing a noble at a party and handling Bastiens affairs after his death, even though he was married and other family to do so.

Even with the death of Bastien, she was able to twist the events to endear herself to the family more so. That includes his pious noble nephew(?) and the very influential Grand Cleric. So even after his death, Vivienne had enough power, influence, and sway to make it possible for her to be a candidate for the Divine, even though she was never apart of the Chantry.
 

Gaining a noble title is no easy feat, as Josephine's quest shows. And she was attempting to reinstate a formerly great and respected noble house. Vivienne is a mage. No matter what the chantry says there will be suspicion toward mages, and especially mages holding land and titles for a long while. Also, she unlike the family we make nobility in Josie's quest, does not have a powerful world saving organization behind her.

It was so hard to reinstate that family because they in no way proved they should be reinstated to nobility. That meant that the Inquisitor and Josie had to jump through hoops, call in all sorts of favors, and pull a lot of strings to make it possible. Which, in the end of the day, shows that it's possible to become a noble if you throw around enough influence and have the connections.

With that in mind, I want to ask you a question. What do you think would be harder for a mage to become: a land owning noble or the leader of the largest religion in Thedas (which also happens to be the most influential title someone could ever hold)?

After being a strong possible candidate for the Divine, even though she should have never been a contender in the first place, getting raised to nobility would be a walk in the park.