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[Owlfruit Potion]

I understand that the writers do what they want to do. That's fine. 
 
The reason the bisexual Cullen issue has some people annoyed is that there is conflicting information about it.
 
On the one hand you have some devs saying that is how they wanted Cullen to be, and on the other you have the dev tweet saying that Cullen was meant to be bisexual in DA:I but they 'ran out of time.'

None of this matter though, in the end he was made straight and there is that. The end.

I also kind of wish at this point that they would just tell us what happened. There is a legit difference between "he was meant to be bi but we ran out of time" (implication: Cullen in DA:I as released is an imperfect realization of his character and it's disappointing that they're not going to patch it) and "we thought about making him bi early in development but it didn't work for his character" (implication: an m/m Cullen romance is like the timed mission in Crestwood; some people would have liked it, but its omission does not mean the True Artistic Vision of Dragon Age is Forever Lost). Maybe if they said the first people would quit screaming at people who wanted him to be interested in men to get over it, and maybe if they said the second people would quit being nasty on tumblr to people who didn't want that.

Or, more likely, whichever "side" "won" would just get twice as mean about it. Ugh.
 

Kaidan in ME.  
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the lines were there just like they were for Cullen.

I'm pretty sure I've seen devs say here and/or in videos from conference panels that the Kaidan and Ashley same-sex romance lines were just part of that thing where it was easier to have both Sheps record all lines than to filter out who gets what. Though with the mixed messages we've received about Cullen, and that "Shepard is straight" BS, who knows.

[sandalisthemaker]

The problem is that someone found out the stupid file, if it was not found nobody would be the wiser and there would be no drama (well there would be a different kind of drama)

 

Meh.  People always go digging around in the files.  It's to be expected nowadays. 

[Felya87]

Kaidan in ME.  

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the lines were there just like they were for Cullen. 

 

for what I remember, for Kaidan where many more already present but never used. For Cullen just few. I can be wrong, of course, or simply the decision of leaving Cullen straight came very soon.

 

I hope, howerer, that in the future characters will be gay/straight/BI from the start and is understandable from the first game they appear in (or totally left in the dark)

[sandalisthemaker]

Time to call the mod . Reported!

 

Lmao.

[phaonica]

Well, I personally was not calling anyone out for being -phobic, because to do so, makes it seem like I have no legitimate interest in their point of view. At the same time, I'm trying to be sensitive to that some people have had certain points of views used to try to hurt them their entire lives. It's a topic that I find hard to navigate.

[daveliam]

The problem is that someone found out the stupid file, if it was not found nobody would be the wiser and there would be no drama (well there would be a different kind of drama)

 

HA!  Totally true!

 

I also kind of wish at this point that they would just tell us what happened. There is a legit difference between "he was meant to be bi but we ran out of time" (implication: Cullen in DA:I as released is an imperfect realization of his character and it's disappointing that they're not going to patch it) and "we thought about making him bi early in development but it didn't work for his character" (implication: an m/m Cullen romance is like the timed mission in Crestwood; some people would have liked it, but its omission does not mean the True Artistic Vision of Dragon Age is Forever Lost). Maybe if they said the first people would quit screaming at people who wanted him to be interested in men to get over it, and maybe if they said the second people would quit being nasty on tumblr to people who didn't want that.

Or, more likely, whichever "side" "won" would just get twice as mean about it. Ugh.
 

I'm pretty sure I've seen devs say here and/or in videos from conference panels that the same-sex romance lines were just part of that thing where it was easier to have both Sheps record all lines than to filter out who gets what. Though with the mixed messages we've received about Cullen, and that "Shepard is straight" BS, who knows.

 

Yeah.  To be honest, it's not like they owe us an explanation on this.  But it would be nice to know.  Just for my own personal edification.

 

Re: the Kaidan thing, I've heard conflicting reports and I'm not sure which is true.  Frankly, the ME team handled s/s romance so terribly that it was borderline offensive.  I'm still not sure if he was meant to be bisexual but they changed their minds or if they just had him record the lines to make the recording process easier.  Both seem plausible. 

[Melca36]

LOL I just popped into this thread out of curiosity and had to laugh. "It's like anything I say against (insert any race/ethnicity) people is considered racism!" Yes............................ exactly!

 

Deleted.

[daveliam]

Well, I personally was not calling anyone out for being -phobic, because to do so, makes it seem like I have no legitimate interest in their point of view. At the same time, I'm trying to be sensitive to that some people have had certain points of views used to try to hurt them their entire lives. It's a topic that I find hard to navigate.

 

Yeah, there are wackos on both sides of this 'issue' here.  My best advice is to always be honest about what you think but then be open if multiple people tell you that it's offensive.  Personally, I always welcome PMs from people who want to discuss it further but don't want to come off as offensive or derail the thread. 

[phaonica]

-deleted-

[leadintea]

for what I remember, for Kaidan where many more already present but never used. For Cullen just few. I can be wrong, of course, or simply the decision of leaving Cullen straight came very soon.

 

I hope, howerer, that in the future characters will be gay/straight/BI from the start and is understandable from the first game they appear in (or totally left in the dark)

 

Really. After Anders, Kaiden, and now, Cullen, I really hope Bioware just creates characters with their sexualities in mind or just not make them romanceable.

[Zeroth Angel]

Time to call the mod . Reported!

lel

[Melca36]

What's this ?

Probably something I shouldn't have said. I'm going to delete that post as a measure of good faith.

[ThreeF]

Or, more likely, whichever "side" "won" would just get twice as mean about it. Ugh.
.

And this is why the only answer to this is "the end result is what matters"

 

 

Meh.  People always go digging around in the files.  It's to be expected nowadays. 

Which is why one must be careful what one leaves in, unless it is left intentionally (which I think was not the case with this particular file)

[AresKeith]

HA!  Totally true!

 

 

Yeah.  To be honest, it's not like they owe us an explanation on this.  But it would be nice to know.  Just for my own personal edification.

 

Re: the Kaidan thing, I've heard conflicting reports and I'm not sure which is true.  Frankly, the ME team handled s/s romance so terribly that it was borderline offensive.  I'm still not sure if he was meant to be bisexual but they changed their minds or if they just had him record the lines to make the recording process easier.  Both seem plausible. 

 

I think it was the latter because didn't Ashley have them too?

[phaonica]

Yeah, there are wackos on both sides of this 'issue' here.  My best advice is to always be honest about what you think but then be open if multiple people tell you that it's offensive.  Personally, I always welcome PMs from people who want to discuss it further but don't want to come off as offensive or derail the thread. 

 

I just don't think that calling someone out directly as a homophobe is the most productive way to reach them.

[Melca36]

Yeah, there are wackos on both sides of this 'issue' here.  My best advice is to always be honest about what you think but then be open if multiple people tell you that it's offensive.  Personally, I always welcome PMs from people who want to discuss it further but don't want to come off as offensive or derail the thread. 

 

Its nice to see someone acknowledge there are extremists on both sides of the issue. 

[o Ventus]

 

Re: the Kaidan thing, I've heard conflicting reports and I'm not sure which is true.  Frankly, the ME team handled s/s romance so terribly that it was borderline offensive.  I'm still not sure if he was meant to be bisexual but they changed their minds or if they just had him record the lines to make the recording process easier.  Both seem plausible. 

I've never bothered to look much into the s/s romances in ME, but what's so bad about them?

 

 

As far as Kaidan in ME1 goes, I think they had s/s romances on the table at one point, but cut them. Ashley also has cut FemShep romance dialogue, but it's the same as her DudeShep romance dialogue, just with feminine pronouns instead of masculine in reference to Shepard.

[wiccame]

Can I ask, honestly, did anyone actually say that Cullen should be bisexual?  I see people saying that it's a shame that he's not bisexual because they want a guy like him for their m/m PC.  I've seen people say that it would be eye-rolling if the only reason why he's not bisexual is because they 'ran out of time'.  I've seen people say that it's total bullshit to say that it doesn't "make sense for his character to be bisexual", especially if that explanation extends beyond that whole "He didn't hit on a guy once 10+ years ago in Ferelden when given the chance" piece.  But has anyone demanded that he should be bisexual?  Or ask that he gets changed? 

Not sure if that is aimed at my argument but I am going to address this any way.

If he were to be bisexual than yes he would have had the same reaction to a male pc as he did a female pc. Any potential LI or flirtable character will flirt with/hit on either gender if they were intended that way. To say he just didn't like YOUR male pc doesn't make sense for one particular character if it hasn't been done before with any other. 

[Melca36]

And this is why the only answer to this is "the end result is what matters"

 

 

Which is why one must be careful what one leaves in, unless it is left intentionally (which I think was not the case with this particular file)

 

And when that happens...all hell breaks loose and the militants with the overblown sense of entitlement start spouting wild conspiracy theories and think the developers owe them something.

[sandalisthemaker]

Not sure if that is aimed at my argument but I am going to address this any way.

If he were to be bisexual than yes he would have had the same reaction to a male pc as he did a female pc. Any potential LI or flirtable character will flirt with/hit on either gender if they were intended that way. To say he just didn't like YOUR male pc doesn't make sense for one particular character if it hasn't been done before with any other. 

 

And that is fine when talking about game mechanics, but that argument is being used as a primary reason as to why it doesn't make sense for a character like Cullen to be bisexual.  Why it doesn't fit his personality or whatever.

 

Well, apparently there are other reasons, but the posters decline to elaborate. 

[sandalisthemaker]

And when that happens...all hell breaks loose and the militants with the overblown sense of entitlement start spouting wild conspiracy theories and think the developers owe them something.

 

Again with this?

 

Why the blanket statements?  Why the hostility?

[Melca36]

Can I ask, honestly, did anyone actually say that Cullen should be bisexual?  I see people saying that it's a shame that he's not bisexual because they want a guy like him for their m/m PC.  I've seen people say that it would be eye-rolling if the only reason why he's not bisexual is because they 'ran out of time'.  I've seen people say that it's total bullshit to say that it doesn't "make sense for his character to be bisexual", especially if that explanation extends beyond that whole "He didn't hit on a guy once 10+ years ago in Ferelden when given the chance" piece.  But has anyone demanded that he should be bisexual?  Or ask that he gets changed? 

 

 

This all goes down to people expecting the Inquisition characters to be exactly like they were in DA2.

 

And yes...there were people who said that. There were people who say straight people don't deserve anything.

 

Yes...there are plenty of idiot homophobic straight people......but people are turning into the bullies they are fighting against.

 

Adding hate to hate will not accomplish anything.

[ThreeF]

And when that happens...all hell breaks loose and the militants with the overblown sense of entitlement start spouting wild conspiracy theories and think the developers owe them something.

huh? I don't think anyone in their right mind would leave anything that controversial on purpose.

[daveliam]

Really. After Anders, Kaiden, and now, Cullen, I really hope Bioware just creates characters with their sexualities in mind or just not make them romanceable.

 

To be honest, I actually think that they are getting much better about this.

Fun fact:  Do you know how many m/m options existed in all of Bioware's games prior to DA 2? 

 

Answer:  Two.  That's right.  Only two guys ever until 2011!

When they decided that Anders was bisexual, that was the first game where gay guys had more than one option.  Part of the reason why they did it was to start giving us equitable choices.  Was it the 'correct' option?  Not sure.  The same thing with Kaidan (2012).  That was only the second game where we got two options.  Again, it was about finally giving us two options. 

 

In DA: I, they did that without using an already existing character.  It's easier for them now because it's expected and there should be no controversy around it.  I'm confident that we will see less and less of the "formerly thought to be straight but are now revealed to be bisexual guys' going forward.

 

I've never bothered to look much into the s/s romances in ME, but what's so bad about them?

 

It was more about how they approached it.  I always got a feeling of 'gay panic' from their development team.  Gay guys were the only ones who didn't get any options in a game and it happened not once, but twice.  When they received criticism on that, they stated that it was because Shepard 'wasn't gay'.  That you could change his personality but that aspect of it was set.  When people correctly pointed out that Liara was female, they changed their tune on asari (who, in the game, are called an 'all female species') by stating that because they were aliens, it "didn't  count" as a lesbian romance.  Then, after all of that, they introduced a bisexual human woman in the next game, but still left no options for gay guys.  It was pretty crappy. 

That being said, Kaidan and Steve were both excellent in ME 3.  Kaidan is still my favorite Bioware romance and Steve is top 3 m/m romances for me.  So I guess it all worked out in the end.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Not sure if that is aimed at my argument but I am going to address this any way.

If he were to be bisexual than yes he would have had the same reaction to a male pc as he did a female pc. Any potential LI or flirtable character will flirt with/hit on either gender if they were intended that way. To say he just didn't like YOUR male pc doesn't make sense for one particular character if it hasn't been done before with any other. 

I've never played F Amell or Surana, but doesn't Cullen having a crush on them happen regardless of player choice? There's no Keep option for it and it comes up in DAI, so I would assume so. You have to remember that DA doesn't exist in a bubble, and a lot of male players would not be happy with a male NPC being infatuated with their character if they don't have a choice in it. I don't think they would do that in 2015, let alone in 2009. Also, particularly in DAO and to a leser extent DA2, queer characters are a bit reluctant or defensive about their previous same-sex relationships. Even if there's no legally enforced homophobia, it's obviously still considered something odd. Cullen might not have been comfortable voicing an attraction to a male warden when he didn't know it was reciprocated, even if he had felt that way.

 

This is all based on if they had made him a bisexual LI in Inquisition.