430 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

No they are saying that the two same-sex LIs that are available to them aren't enough . Freaking ungrateful SOBs...

 

Wow. No, that's not what "they" are saying. "They" are saying that they wanted to romance Cullen and are disappointed and frustrated that they can't. It's not a numbers game. It's a, "do I like this character" game. Same reason my canon Warden went unromanced in Origins. I just didn't like the romance options I had.

 

And really? You're calling people who wanted to romance Cullen as with a male Inquisitor "ungrateful SOBs" and you're the one reporting the thread? Nicely done.

[daveliam]

I'm just being honest.  There are extremists on BOTH sides of the issues.  And Please don't assume I'm a homophobe. I've personally fought for marriage equality for my brother and my friends. Ive been to jail for civil disobedience. I've been pushed, spit at, kick in the ribs. I have the scars.

 

What I don't like is armchair activisim.   Online Social Justice is not the same as real life Social Justice.  

 

When all is said and done....I just believe in in fairness.  

 

I will call out anybody who wants Dorian straight too.  Too many in this fandom suffer from blind hypocrisy though.

 

 

I just wish alot of people would just openly admit this is about not getting what they want instead of hiding behind the banner of representation.   We can't always get what we want in the world.  The developers are doing the best they can.

 

I wish that you would stop assuming that 'armchair' activism doesn't work in some ways, because it does.  And I also wish that you wouldn't assume that some of us aren't also doing the same kind of activism that you do.  The world today lives online, so online social justice is a legit way to approach change.  Unfortunately many people do it really terribly and it muddies the waters.  I'm not sure why you don't see the whole "only certain types of guys can be bisexual and big, masculine warriors 'don't make sense'" thing as a problem.  Because it is.  So highlighting that this is a blind spot in the developer's approach to LGBT representation is a totally appropriate thing to do.  You don't have to do it yourself; that's cool.  But don't scold us for doing it. 

 

I realize that us gay guys have been screwed over in the LI department, but I'd personally have them keep the character as they were than change them just to offer us options. It sends a message that they don't really care about creating real gay characters, just that they want to reach some quota they can check off to keep us pleased and it just rubs me the wrong way.

 

Agreed.  And that's why I'm remaining totally optimistic that going forward, we get guys like Steve, Bull, and Dorian who were designed and conceived as gay or bisexual the entire time so that we don't need to constantly explain to people how bisexuality works.  I honestly think that we'll see less and less of this moving forward.  But maybe I'm just being hopeful. 

 

No they are saying that two same-sex LIs that are available to them aren't enough .

 

Find me ONE PERSON who said this.  We'll all be waiting here for your return.

[AresKeith]

As (Disgusted noise.) pointed out it probably was omitted to avoid the possibility of freaking out some lets say... tender souls.

 

But that guy in the Human Noble origins was a flirt for both male and female

[ThreeF]

But that guy in the Human Noble origins was a flirt for both male and female

hmm...who was initiating it? As Female Noble I remember always being the one starting the whole thing

[Owlfruit Potion]

A male Warden gets a choice in it when it comes to Zevran, though. Male mage Warden wouldn't have gotten a choice if that had been part of the game. That's the point. And of course he doesn't bring up feelings for a male Warden in DAI, they decided against making him a bisexual LI. If they had gone through with it, perhaps he would have. We'll never know since it's all just theoretical at this point. However, unless someone specifically says they're not attracted to the same sex, all we can do is assume they're straight. Which is fine, but it's not retconning if our assumptions prove to be false since they were, after all, just assumptions.

While I don't think bi DA:I Cullen would have been a "retcon" in the sense of "an m/m romance could not possibly be written in such a way that it would have been consistent with his earlier character" (only in the sense of "authorial intent changed"), I think DA:I Cullen saying anything about the male Warden would definitely have been one. His attraction to the female Warden was revealed partially by involuntary stuttering, partially by torture from blood mages and demons who learned of his attraction by reading his mind, and only secondarily by his actually consciously saying anything remotely flirty to her.
 
I'm not saying bisexuals should have to wear a forehead sticker, or that they have to like men and women equally, or that characters like Cassandra and Varric in DA2 who had been in individual opposite-sex relationships were necessarily straight until they identified as such in DA:I. But I see a lot of the idea that a biphobic / heteronormative viewpoint is the only reason to have considered DA:O Cullen straight, and I just can't agree with that. The only determining factor in his attraction to the warden was gender. If he didn't realize he was bi until he was older or something, fine, but I find the "well, maybe he knew he was bi then and just didn't like a single one of your eleventy billion possible male Wardens, even though he liked all eleventy billion female Wardens" argument really unsatisfying, and the "maybe he just successfully hid his attraction to your m!Amell/Surana through weeks of blood magic torture" argument dubious.

 

And to be clear, I don't think mine is the only valid viewpoint. Just that it is a valid one.
 

I know  what you mean, but generally Cullen at that point is neither straight nor gay, nor bi. He exist to provide a joke.

Or, you know, to crank up the pathos for mages later in the game, like Tamlen and Gorim do for Dalish Elves and Dwarven Nobles. Or to efficiently illustrate several aspects of life in the Circles. I thought his little mini-romance was very elegant in terms of information conveyed per word. The "joke" part was one optional line.

[TammieAZ]

Wow. No, that's not what "they" are saying. "They" are saying that they wanted to romance Cullen and are disappointed and frustrated that they can't. It's not a numbers game. It's a, "do I like this character" game. Same reason my canon Warden went unromanced in Origins. I just didn't like the romance options I had.

 

And really? You're calling people who wanted to romance Cullen as with a male Inquisitor "ungrateful SOBs" and you're the one reporting the thread? Nicely done.

 

Yeah it is indeed time for me to take a break from this site . Carry on good people.

[AresKeith]

hmm...who was initiating it? As Female Noble I remember always be the one starting the whole thing

 

Don't you have to start it with Cullen too? Because none of the people in human noble origins flirted first either iirc 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

But that guy in the Human Noble origins was a flirt for both male and female

You can flirt with him, but you're not required to passively stand there and accept it while he talks about how infatuated with you he is. 

[ThreeF]

 

Or, you know, to crank up the pathos for mages later in the game, like Tamlen and Gorim do for Dalish Elves and Dwarven Nobles. Or to efficiently illustrate several aspects of life in the Circles. I thought his little mini-romance was very elegant in terms of information conveyed per word. The "joke" part was one optional line.

Could be, I generally didn't liked the joke.

[daveliam]

But that guy in the Human Noble origins was a flirt for both male and female

 

Speculation, but they might have been limiting the number of those encounters.  Look at the hoopla over DA: I "The Gay Game" because there's, literally, about 10 minutes worth of LGBT content in the game if you aren't romancing a s/s LI.  Back in 2009, people's heads might have exploded over three bisexual guys in the game.  Even if one of the asks permission to flirt with guys first......

[phaonica]

I just wish alot of people would just openly admit this is about not getting what they want instead of hiding behind the banner of representation.   We can't always get what we want in the world.  The developers are doing the best they can.

 

For me, personally, yes, the frustration is the sacrifice of accessibility. I can understand that having diverse canon sexualities is important for the sake of representation, and I can accept how that could be more important than accessibility. I just wish, though, that the idea of having enjoyed that accessibility didn't connote so negatively.

[AresKeith]

Speculation, but they might have been limiting the number of those encounters.  Look at the hoopla over DA: I "The Gay Game" because there's, literally, about 10 minutes worth of LGBT content in the game if you aren't romancing a s/s LI.  Back in 2009, people's heads might have exploded over three bisexual guys in the game.  Even if one of the asks permission to flirt with guys first......

 

Could be, but I don't think would be that worried with super minor characters in the Origin stories than companions

 

Because you also have people like Tamlen, Gorim, Mardy who were only available to a specific gender in the Origin

[ThreeF]

You can flirt with him, but you're not required to passively stand there and accept it while he talks about how infatuated with you he is. 

Yeah there is no snide like "oooh someone likes you!"

 

Also that flirt generally mocks Cullen's awkwardness when they have Cullen run away,  I can see how some may find it all too much

 

(well that's as far speculations go)

[wiccame]

You can flirt with him, but you're not required to passively stand there and accept it while he talks about how infatuated with you he is. 

He doesn't, at best he gets a little flustered and stuttery. He makes no mention of any infatuation until you press it and even then it's not that bad.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

He doesn't, at best he gets a little flustered and stuttery. He makes no mention of any infatuation until you press it and even then it's not that bad.

Doesn't it come up during Broken Circle? Or is that only if you press him about during the Origin?

[wiccame]

Doesn't it come up during Broken Circle? Or is that only if you press him about during the Origin?

Actually I am not sure about that, but iirc there is a way to bypass that straight away even if you did flirt with him.

[ThreeF]

Doesn't it come up during Broken Circle? Or is that only if you press him about during the Origin?

Currently i can find only the conversation after the harrowing, for some reason I also remember a flirt at some other point  (could be mixing things up though)

[DirkJake]

To be honest, I would love to romance Cullen as a male inquisitor, and I was slightly disappointed when I learned that he's straight. Not that Dorian and IB are not satisfying, but more choices are better.

 

But what's done is done. For whatever reasons, BW decides he is straight, and there is nothing really wrong with that. Though I personally do not understand how bisexual Cullen would not fit his character as some posters have pointed out, and I do not see any evidence that would contradict bisexual Cullen before DA:I.

 

At least I am glad that his sexuality is finally set in stone, so I don't keep hoping. I will look forward seeing the next bisexual and gay characters in the next game.

 

Meanwhile I will just sip my tea while looking at all these Dorian/Cullen fan art. 

[noxpanda]

Doesn't it come up during Broken Circle? Or is that only if you press him about during the Origin?

It does. During the intro convo he'll be all flustered but only with the female mage, if you push him he runs away, also if you have jowan following you he'll pipe up and say 'ooh someone likes you'. Regardless on wether you push him or not at the begining when you find him during broken circle he will refer to the female mage as being 'the one thing he always wanted but could never have, my ill advised infatuation with her, a mage of all things' you then get several options in direct response to that. Also for DA2 if you import a female mage warden save he will refer to her again as a 'special woman' stating that 'i never met her like again'.

 

So regardless on wether a female mage flirts with him at all, or even speaks to him at the beginning he'll be crushing on her regardless.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Everyone knows Cullen is Lyriumsexual. He's probably selling all the Inquisitor items, as we speak, to feed his addiction. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

*sees people comparing about how many options of the sexual orientation they wanted that they have had while sitting in the zero camp*

[Cespar]

*sees people comparing about how many options of the sexual orientation they wanted that they have had while sitting in the zero camp*

Do you want people to feel sorry for you?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Do you want people to feel sorry for you?

No, just finding the whole thing about complaining who has the least amount of LIs representing their orientation ironic since none of the groups being presented have the least. 

[daveliam]

No, just finding the whole thing about complaining who has the least amount of LIs representing their orientation ironic since none of the groups being presented have the least. 

Are you referring to asexuality?   

[Cespar]

No, just finding the whole thing about complaining who has the least amount of LIs representing their orientation ironic since none of the groups being presented have the least.

There are lots of orientation/representatives that aren't in the game. Like an already married hero, non-muscle people, transgender(male to female), and many more I can't think of as of right now.