430 réponses à ce sujet

[BabyPuncher]

You are free to not partake in such forms of media and we are free to say we think you are stupid for doing so. I don't really understand your reasoning for disliking gay character arcs so much. 

 

I find it off-putting on a personal level. Simple as that.

 

It's the same way I prefer fiction full of attractive characters. The same way I would prefer not to spend my time and attention on fiction concerning ugly people. I don't claim attractive people to be morally superior or even for it to be a logical viewpoint. And I'm fully and completely aware it marginalizes unattractive people in real life who haven't done anything wrong.

 

But I like it nonetheless.

[ThreeF]

I find it off-putting on a personal level. Simple as that.

 

It's the same way I prefer fiction full of attractive characters. The same way I would prefer not to spend my time and attention on fiction concerning ugly people. I don't claim attractive people to be morally superior or even for it to be a logical viewpoint. But I like attractive characters nonetheless.

Just because you don't like how the book is written,  doesn't mean it shouldn't be written that way.

[Eterna]

I find it off-putting on a personal level. Simple as that.

 

It's the same way I prefer fiction full of attractive characters. The same way I would prefer not to spend my time and attention on fiction concerning ugly people. I don't claim attractive people to be morally superior or even for it to be a logical viewpoint. But I like attractive characters nonetheless.

 

That's dumb. I'm gay and I have no problem enjoying straight romance arcs. 

 

I think you're petty, but it is your right to feel as such. 

[Sarielle]

This is actually a really good idea for a noble character or a city elf.  Very interesting idea.

 

I totally had forgotten they did the arranged marriage thing too! Yes. Definitely.

[The Hierophant]

My Amell warden was one sexy beast of a mage yet Cullen didn't have a crush on him? Madness.

I remember Zevran wanting some, but my warden was like " I'm touched that you find me attractive but no thanks. Now that i'm thinking about it can you hook me up with one of those assassin wenches, cus i hear their headgame is to die for?" then Zev said "So threesome?", and my warden was like lol nah.

On the same note there was this one time i swore that Wade had winked at my warden when Herren wasn't looking. Cullen being bi, and not complimenting my Warden on his devilishly good looks is preposterous. He definitely straight.

[daveliam]

Ridiculous. I have a right to want what I want. I have a right to not be interested in a film or book that centers on gay romance, where I might be interested in the same content if it was a straight romance.

 

I have every right not to want it. And that's all this is. You demanding that I want and love gayness and hating the idea that I could be indifferent to it.

 

And then, in the very next sentence, you try and claim not to need or care about straight men.

 

Laughable.

 

You clearly missed the point of my last post then.  Take a deep breath and go back and re-read what I wrote.  Because I didn't say that you have to enjoy or like a masculine gay character.  I said that we need more masculine gay characters so that bigoted people will learn that we exist. 

 

And you also were looking to be offended over what I said about "straight guys"* and gay characters.  My argument wasn't that I don't care what straight guys think.  It's that worrying about what straight guys think will only lead them to continue to create one type of gay character because those are the few that straight guys will deign to accept.  If Cullen were going to be a bisexual romance, I don't think that worrying about how one of the audiences who likely won't romance him is the right move. 

 

Frankly, I don't give two shits if you 'accept' gay people.  Do or don't.  I genuinely don't care.

 

*"Straight guy" is not meant to represent all heterosexual men.

[AresKeith]

Oh lawd he's here now

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Oh lawd he's here now

I'm waiting for Lord Surinen to show up so we can have a party of awfulness.

[BabyPuncher]

Because I didn't say that you have to enjoy or like a masculine gay character.

 

Fantastic. Then surely you can agree how very reasonable it is for me to prefer a straight character with romance content I do like than a gay character with romance content I'm indifferent to.

 

I said that we need more masculine gay characters so that bigoted people will learn that we exist. 

 

The problem being that stories can never prove things. They can only enunciate them. Because I can easily write a story in five minutes where the corrupt politician and KKK member turns out to be a wonderful, caring guy after all, can't I?

 

The quality of writing is almost guaranteed to suffer for things like this. And it does. You're hardly the first person to want characters written as 'stereotype busters.'

[fizzypop]

All of my dreams have come true. I knew there was something there with Cullen. Too bad they didn't get it into the game could have had some threesome action going on there.

[daveliam]

Fantastic. Then surely you can agree how very reasonable it is for me to prefer a straight character with romance content I do like than a gay character with romance content I'm indifferent to.

 

One more time for the cheap seats:  I don't really care.  Like them or not.  How, again, do your personal preferences have anything to do with the discussion again?  Actually, never mind.  Back to my first point.

[BabyPuncher]

One more time for the cheap seats:  I don't really care.  Like them or not.  How, again, do your personal preferences have anything to do with the discussion again?  Actually, never mind.  Back to my first point.

 

If my personal preferences don't matter, who do anyone else's? Because that's all your audience is. All your population of players is. A giant collection of millions of preferences. But they clearly do matter, or else you wouldn't be so immensely concerned about trying to show them masculine characters can be gay.

 

You like to think this is all 'societies' fault. 'Society' imposes these things on us. 'Society' gives us these oppressive roles. As if 'society' is some giant floating brain in the sky that is the source of all meanness and unhappiness in the world.

 

These ideas exist because people, as individuals, hold them. Not 'society.'

[Monica21]

Fantastic. Then surely you can agree how very reasonable it is for me to prefer a straight character with romance content I do like than a gay character with romance content I'm indifferent to.

 

 

Eh... then romance a straight female? I'm not sure how Cullen's sexuality plays into this at all.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Eh... then romance a straight female? I'm not sure how Cullen's sexuality plays into this at all.

It doesn't, he's just using it as another excuse to rant against gay people.

[BabyPuncher]

Eh... then romance a straight female? I'm not sure how Cullen's sexuality plays into this at all.

 

I do, generally. But just because I don't see content on one particular playthrough doesn't mean it isn't there. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it isn't part of the story and I don't enjoy it.

 

I like playing through the Mass Effect series as a female and romancing Garrus. I wouldn't want that taken away despite generally playing as a male. So yes, Garrus being gay would have made a difference to me. And even if he wasn't a romance option, I wouldn't have really appreciated some of the scenes between him and other characters implying romance if he was gay.

[Nimlowyn]

I do, generally. But just because I don't see content on one particular playthrough doesn't mean it isn't there. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it isn't part of the story and I don't enjoy it.

 

I like playing through the Mass Effect series as a female and romancing Garrus. I wouldn't want that taken away despite generally playing as a male. So yes, Garrus being gay would have made a difference to me. And even if he wasn't a romance option, I wouldn't have really appreciated some of the scenes between him and other characters implying romance if he was gay.

Oh dear. 

[Monica21]

I do, generally. But just because I don't see content on one particular playthrough doesn't mean it isn't there. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it isn't part of the story and I don't enjoy it.

 

I like playing through the Mass Effect series as a female and romancing Garrus. I wouldn't want that taken away despite generally playing as a male. So yes, Garrus being gay would have made a difference to me. And even if he wasn't a romance option, I wouldn't have really appreciated some of the scenes between him and other characters implying romance if he was gay.

 

So, you buy a game knowing that it has gay/bi content, even if said content is invisible to you. You know you won't like those aspects of the game but you play it anyway. And then you use a thread about something only tangentially relevant to complain about aspects of the game that you don't like, don't want, have no intention of playing, when the character the thread is based on is neither gay nor bi? That about sum it up?

[BabyPuncher]

So, you buy a game knowing that it has gay/bi content, even if said content is invisible to you. You know you won't like those aspects of the game but you play it anyway. And then you use a thread about something only tangentially relevant to complain about aspects of the game that you don't like, don't want, have no intention of playing, when the character the thread is based on is neither gay nor bi? That about sum it up?

 

I have no idea where you got that pile of very silly nonsense. All I'm saying is that making characters gay isn't the 'everybody-wins-because-gay-people-get-representation-and-straight-people-have-no-reason-to-care' scenario that some players have tried to claim it is.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Going by their public statements, I don't think 'straight dudes that don't want icky gay stuff in their video games' is a demographic that BioWare care very much about.

 

Most straight people are, miraculously, capable of ignoring romance content they don't want to pursue. (Or they're like me and play all the LGB romances regardless of their preferences in real life.)

[Monica21]

I have no idea where you got that pile of very silly nonsense. All I'm saying is that making characters gay isn't the 'everybody-wins-because-gay-people-get-representation-and-straight-people-have-no-reason-to-care' scenario that some players have tried to claim it is.

 

So, why would straight people care? I'm a straight female. Give me a reason why I should care about gay/bi content in a game if it's not relevant to my personal, single player, gameplay experience?

[BabyPuncher]

Going by their public statements, I don't think 'straight dudes that don't want icky gay stuff in their video games' is a demographic that BioWare care very much about.

 

That's incredibly cute. You think BioWare is past this? You think any creator of mainstream fiction is? 

 

Why just today I was looking through some old posts in the twitter thread and found one from writer Patrick Weekes from a few months ago on how everybody is welcome to play their games regardless of sex, gender, age, race, body type, blah blah blah. Body type being the important point here. And when he received lots of retweets and praise, he sent out another tweet gushing in sheer gleeful awe over the positivity and goodness of the BioWare fanbase in accepting everyone.

 

Oh but look. They released a game where every character is in very physical good shape. Where Cassandra speaks with sheer disgust at the thought of her relatives growing 'fat and lazy,' with the Inquisitor given no option to call her out on it. A pretty clear implicit agreement. Fat people are lesser. They aren't welcome as heroes. So says Dragon Age: Inquisition, written by BioWare. Not written by me. By BioWare.

 

Now, whether fat people are actually lesser or not is not the point. The point is the hypocrisy. BioWare and plenty of other creators go out of their way to advocate equality and the acceptance of everyone, but their games are filled with more double standards and more instances of the narrative clearly denouncing people as 'less' than you could care to count.

[Andraste_Reborn]

That's incredibly cute. You think BioWare is past this? You think any creator of mainstream fiction is?

 

Of course not. No work of fiction is perfect as far as representation goes, especially not one as sprawling as a Dragon Age game.

 

I would love to see fat people in positive roles in any video game, especially a Dragon Age one. But I'm not sure what on earth that has to do with straight dudes objecting to bisexual male characters potentially existing.

[BabyPuncher]

Of course not. No work of fiction is perfect as far as representation goes, especially not one as sprawling as a Dragon Age game.

 

I would love to see fat people in positive roles in any video game, especially a Dragon Age one. But I'm not sure what on earth that has to do with straight dudes objecting to bisexual male characters potentially existing.

 

It has to do with the reliability of BioWare or other creators making sure people know how egalitarian they supposedly are. Not reliable at all, is it? They believe what I believe closer then they'll ever publicly admit. So do you, for that matter.
 

[Monica21]

It has to do with the reliability of BioWare or other creators making sure people know how egalitarian they supposedly are. Not reliable at all, is it? They believe what I believe closer then they'll ever publicly admit. So do you, for that matter.
 

 

Have you considered not being a Bioware customer any more? I mean, you do have that option. You know what you're getting when you buy a Bioware title and if you find the content "off-putting" then you, as the consumer, has no one to blame but himself.

[Andraste_Reborn]

It has to do with the reliability of BioWare or other creators making sure people know how egalitarian they supposedly are. Not reliable at all, is it? They believe what I believe closer then they'll ever publicly admit. So do you, for that matter.
 

 

I'm super impressed by your telepathic powers.

 

While BioWare are not a perfect font of good representation for every minority group, I think they've demonstrated a commitment to including LGBT characters in their work, and they don't seem to care much about people who find that objectionable for some bizarre reason.