430 réponses à ce sujet

[BabyPuncher]

While BioWare are not a perfect font of good representation for every minority group, I think they've demonstrated a commitment to including LGBT characters in their work, and they don't seem to care much about people who find that objectionable for some bizarre reason.

 

First of all, you should understand the difference between finding gay characters objectionable and finding the idea that it makes no difference if a character is gay and it would thus be totally okay if every character is gay objectionable.

 

I don't find the gay characters BioWare has written objectionable. While I wasn't overwhelmingly impressed with Dorian, I would probably rank him in the upper half of the DA:I squadmates. And I liked Cortez in ME 3 quite a bit. 

 

I find the idea that, as a straight man, I should be perfectly fine with any amount of gayness because gayness supposedly makes no difference incredibly objectionable.

 

Secondly, you're wrong.

[Monica21]

First of all, you should understand the difference between finding gay characters objectionable and finding the idea that it makes no difference if a character is gay and it would thus be totally okay if every character is gay.

I don't find the gay characters BioWare has written objectionable. While I wasn't overwhelmingly impressed with Dorian, I would probably rank him in the upper half of the DA:I squadmates. And I liked Cortez in ME 3 quite a bit.

I find the idea that, as a straight man, I should be perfectly fine with any amount of gayness because gayness makes no difference incredibly objectionable.

Well, since no one is advocating for all characters to be gay, I think you're good.

Second, how does gayness make a difference to a straight man? Or, more relevant, why would gayness make a difference to a straight man?

[MelissaGT]

That's incredibly cute. You think BioWare is past this? You think any creator of mainstream fiction is? 

 

Why just today I was looking through some old posts in the twitter thread and found one from writer Patrick Weekes from a few months ago on how everybody is welcome to play their games regardless of sex, gender, age, race, body type, blah blah blah. Body type being the important point here. And when he received lots of retweets and praise, he sent out another tweet gushing in sheer gleeful awe over the positivity and goodness of the BioWare fanbase in accepting everyone.

 

Oh but look. They released a game where every character is in very physical good shape. Where Cassandra speaks with sheer disgust at the thought of her relatives growing 'fat and lazy,' with the Inquisitor given no option to call her out on it. A pretty clear implicit agreement. Fat people are lesser. They aren't welcome as heroes. So says Dragon Age: Inquisition, written by BioWare. Not written by me. By BioWare.

 

Now, whether fat people are actually lesser or not is not the point. The point is the hypocrisy. BioWare and plenty of other creators go out of their way to advocate equality and the acceptance of everyone, but their games are filled with more double standards and more instances of the narrative clearly denouncing people as 'less' than you could care to count.

 

Good grief, that's really picking apart what the guy said and making a mountain out of a molehill. 

 

Think about it from this perspective - the Inquisition is an army. Your character, the Inquisitor, and his/her companions are at the top of their game. They are out fighting day in and day out. How does that leave room for any of those people to not appear physically fit?

 

Would it be more realistic to see pudgy Orlesians wandering around Val Royeaux? Sure, but that would require additional character models. Oh but if Bioware did that, they'd have to create models for short people, skinny people, thin people, tall people, fat people, stocky people, robust people, average people and anything and everything in between...get where I'm going here? It's not like Bioware is all "death to fat people!" It's all about time and money and weighing in on the importance of things.

[noxpanda]

Is that the same voice actor?

*sticks head out from under the table again*

 

For cullen? Yep it is. Greg ellis did cullen in origins and DA2 and he also did Anders in awakening. Zev's VA also did one of the male inquistors too, cant remember which one it is, i kinda want to say the american voice but i might be wrong.

 

*hides back under the table again*

[Lumix19]

Well, since no one is advocating for all characters to be gay, I think you're good.

Second, how does gayness make a difference to a straight man? Or, more relevant, why would gayness make a difference to a straight man?

Kinda curious about this myself...

[noxpanda]

Kinda curious about this myself...

Eh might be an age/maturity thing? I know when my brother was a teenager he got entirely freaked out by anything 'gay'.  I mean he didnt get angry or any such just tried to run the hell away. Not really sure why, he seems to have settled down as he got older fortunately. I thought it was hilarious as a small kid

[Farangbaa]

As a straight man I love gay men.

That's one less competitor, and this one will take another man out of the competition as well

The world needs more gay men.

[Laurelinde]

Perhaps because masculinity, while a concept which is associated with dominance, rationality, power, strength and mastery, is simultaneously as fragile as a newborn baby bird.

This is part of the problem with classifying ourselves on such an arbitrary binary as masculine and feminine: their definitions are so heavily determined by being the absence or opposite of each other. Masculine is 'not womanly' and feminine is 'not manly'. Thus, any divergence from those social norms (sexual activity, haircuts, manners of speaking, dress, etc), however small, challenge the whole binary system, and the definitions and identities of anyone using them to self-describe or categorise.

Or if that's too heavy, cooties. Everyone has cooties.

In any case, while I'm sure they are expected and required to take profit into account, Bioware are not beholden to make sure their stories appeal to every lowest common denominator of consumer, especially at the expense of others. Tabloids sell an awful lot of copies but they are still fundamentally trash, and BW are allowed to aim higher if they wish. 50 Shades is a bestseller, but does that make it a good book worth reading or having written?

[Monica21]

Kinda curious about this myself...

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for him to answer.

[MelissaGT]

I know they are popular here on the forums, but the handful of women I know IRL who played DAI are pretty much repulsed by Blackwall's beard and Iron Bull's face. 

 

I don't have any problems with Iron Bull, but what bugged me about Blackwall were his lips. The beard is fine, but his lips aren't exactly inviting. 

[Vanth]

I find all the talk of gay / not gay rather bemusing. When I make friends with people in real life, or collaborate with people at work, I don't spend much time thinking about their sexuality. And i also don't feel that their sexuality is an over-dominant aspect of their characters. In other words, I don't feel that my friends and colleagues are defined by their sexuality and I son't feel that they are made totally different people because they may have alternative non-traditional forms.

 

This seems quite at odds with the views of people here and indeed the views of Bioware when constructing their characters for the game. Do you really find people so defined by their sexuality in your real lives? (I am not condemning or judging if you do - I am just curious.)

[XMissWooX]

If I recall correctly, don't both Cullen and Solas have extra dialogue for a male romance? Coincidentally, those two romances were also added in at the last minute when the game game was delayed a year. Perhaps they weren't sure how those two romances were going to work out and, knowing they didn't have much time and thus little room for error, decided that recording lines for both genders would be the best approach.

I also think that it would certainly have made sense for Cullen to have been bisexual from an in-game perspective, since his personality doesn't determine his sexuality (or vice-versa), although less likely from a real-life perspective, as I feel the exclusion of Cullen's crush for a male Warden might have been indicative of the writer's intention for him to be straight.

I do sympathise with those who wanted Cullen to be bisexual - it's never pleasant to be told you won't be getting something you really wanted. I hope that those of you who wanted a 'Knight in Shining Armour' type romance for male PCs will get your own version of Cullen in the next game (or if not then, at some point).

As for the protagonist starting out married, I don't think Bioware will do that. I can see them doing something like one of the followers being someone you are meant to get married to by your family, and through the game you either fall in love with them and marry, do it for some other reason, or both agree to call it off since you love someone else or some other reason.

That actually sounds like a really interesting idea, and one I don't think has been done before. I wouldn't mind something like that implemented in a future game.

[daveliam]

I find all the talk of gay / not gay rather bemusing. When I make friends with people in real life, or collaborate with people at work, I don't spend much time thinking about their sexuality. And i also don't feel that their sexuality is an over-dominant aspect of their characters. In other words, I don't feel that my friends and colleagues are defined by their sexuality and I son't feel that they are made totally different people because they may have alternative non-traditional forms.

This seems quite at odds with the views of people here and indeed the views of Bioware when constructing their characters for the game. Do you really find people so defined by their sexuality in your real lives? (I am not condemning or judging if you do - I am just curious.)

I don't really understand your question. What do you mean by 'defined by their sexuality'?

I think that, for this particular conversation, sexuality is pretty important to discuss since Cullen is an LI. His being straight v bisexual has a practical implication for the player. If he were not an LI and just an NPC, like Celene or Briala, then I would agree that conversation would be odd to have. But since part of Cullen's role in the game is to be a love interest, it's kind of important to talk about his sexuality, no?

I guess, think about it like this: if you were just talking about a co-worker as a co-worker, then it wouldn't matter. But if you were interested in dating your co-worker, then it would certainly matter, right?

[The Antagonist]

eh gays are already over represented in DAI, making Cullen gay would mean the are more gays than straights. Even in a fairy tale universe, that situation wouldn't make sense.

[The Antagonist]

eh gays are already over represented in DAI, making Cullen gay would mean the are more gays than straights. Even in a fairy tale universe, that situation wouldn't make sense.

[daveliam]

eh gays are already over represented in DAI, making Cullen gay would mean the are more gays than straights. Even in a fairy tale universe, that situation wouldn't make sense.

Good thing the developers have already stated that they don't care about mimicking real world statistics when makin their world. So that argument is irrelevant.

Oh, and no one is talking about making him gay.

[SnakeCode]

Honestly Dave I wouldn't get into it with Vanth. The consensus is that s/he's likely a troll. S/he argues that Cassandra raped the Inquisitor, and then called me and another poster rapists later in the same thread.

[AresKeith]

eh gays are already over represented in DAI, making Cullen gay would mean the are more gays than straights. Even in a fairy tale universe, that situation wouldn't make sense.

 

   

[daveliam]

[quote name="SnakeCode" post="18712833" timestamp="1425323697"]

Honestly Dave I wouldn't get into it with Vanth. The consensus is that s/he's likely a troll. S/he argues that Cassandra raped the Inquisitor, and then called me and another poster rapists later in the same thread.[/quote

Ah, I heard about that Cass = rapist thing but, thankfully, missed it. Good to know.

[Vanth]

Honestly Dave I wouldn't get into it with Vanth. The consensus is that s/he's likely a troll. S/he argues that Cassandra raped the Inquisitor, and then called me and another poster rapists later in the same thread.

 

That's a bit of a stretch. I objected to your claim that you could define rape whoever you want with the statement "Next time you are on trial for rape, let me know how the "I didn't define it as rape" defence goes for you." It's not really the same thing, is it. (And while making such a ridiculous stretch you have the cheek to call me a troll!)

[Steelcan]

Has the heinous gay agenda been revealed?

[BabyPuncher]

Perhaps because masculinity, while a concept which is associated with dominance, rationality, power, strength and mastery, is simultaneously as fragile as a newborn baby bird.

 

Is that right?

 

Funny, you would think a concept so supposedly 'fragile' would have vanished by this point considering how dedicated a significant chunk of people in the western world are to wiping it out along with the concept of gender in general.

 

Instead these concepts are very much alive and kicking. Hmm. It's almost as if the idea of them being 'fragile' in the first place is a petty delusion born of powerlessness?