54 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Hardly mindreading. Then educate me. Here's your chance to get me to like the game, which shouldn't be hard since I liked the first three.

Three?

As it happens, I didn't like DA2 at all. Its controls frustrated me as much as DAI seems to frustrate you (which makes sense, given that DA2 actually did lack a Tac Cam.

Looting, I usually start too far away and then end up too close to see the little spot to click on and have to reposition again AND/OR change the camera angle. This is even harder with loot hidden away in odd locations. What am I doing wrong?

I cannot defend the Tac Cam outside combat. The lack of interacting at range breaks it irredeemably.

I would recommend not using it for looting.

As I move around the map and change terrain heights, I have to constantly change the camera angle to see where I am going - even with the camera locked/tracking. I won't even start with using ladders or jumping down about camera angles. Sometimes it is simply impossible and I have to climb a hill or go up/down a ladder blind. What am I doing wrong?

Nothing. As I said, manual camera control is a good thing.

Again, outside of combat the Tac Cam is a liability, particularly given its inability to look up. But since the Action Cam can look up, I fail to see the problem.

And if you need to look ahead over a hill (something the Action Cam can't do), just detach it and use the Tac Cam to scout ahead. I use the Tac Cam almost exclusively at a low angle so it can look ahead.

When I enter enclosed spaces I have to reposition the camera a lot to see anything around me. What am I doing wrong?

Nothing. How else would you expect to be able to look around inside an enclosed space? Particularly given that the level design often features multiple layers - if you could zoom out and look down (like DAO) not only would the ceilings nees to disappear, but so would all floors and objects above you, but not ceilings below you.

That would be exceedingly difficult to design. The DAO design (which was basically the NWN design) only worked because the paths never crossed over each other and there wasn't much topography (which precludes an open world - the topography is necessary to disguise the limited draw distance).

When I enter combat anything other than "tactical combat mode" for a camera is impossible after the first swing unless you pause the game, reorient you and the camera, reissue commands, and unpause for the next two seconds of combat until you have to pause again and repeat the process. What am I doing wrong?

Again, nothing. That's why I recommend using the Tac Cam all the time in combat.

Sometimes the camera, even with it locked in position, zooms in and out on me. This makes looting and movement even more complicated. What am I doing wrong?

You're forgetting that the camera can't pass through the terrain (for reasons I explained above).

I see an enemy in the distance, shift to 2D camera mode to attack, pull the camera back as far as I can, and start. Soon I am the only one attacking and have to hunt all over the map with the camera for allies and then again for enemies and reassign them (at least in 2D mode they will continue to attack on their own as will I for a single target, which is better than the other camera mode). What am I doing wrong?

You're treating the camera like a top-down camera rather than a free-roaming camera.

It also sounds like you need to investigate your Tactics settings.

It also sounds like you're expecting specific behaviour from your party members even when you're not micromanaging them. If you want them to do something in particular, you need to play them all. It's a party-based game; play the whole party.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I hate the Tac Cam it is not intuitive, completely braks the immersion and doesn't work properly

Nothing is intuitive. Intuition is just guessing correctly.

They didn't document it, so you have to learn it. And if it's hard to remember which key does what, remap them.

I remapped all the controls before I ever played the game. I tried out different hand positions to see whether I thought they would work, and when I found one I liked I stuck with it.

For example, as a long-time BioWare player, I need SPACE to trigger a pause. So I remap every game to do that, even games that don't strictly have a pause (in Skyrim, I use SPACE to open the Favourites menu, which acts as a pause - in FO3 I use SPACE to open VATS), and I do it before setting foot in the game.

[Fraegur]

I've not gotten very far at all and I intend to put it away for a long time.  The graphics are great.  I can't win a fight with a nug in this game though. I can't pause the combat,  The camera takes off on a color tour right when I need to watch my character.  Some "low Level" fade demon has an insta- kill beam.  That's about it.  I want to play MY character.  In EVERY fight, my character instantly dies.  I don't want to use the companions, I want to use MY character.  I reload and he dies.  I reload and he dies...  I still like dragon age, but I'll just play origins again.  It was fun.

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

Nothing is intuitive. Intuition is just guessing correctly.

They didn't document it, so you have to learn it. And if it's hard to remember which key does what, remap them.

I remapped all the controls before I ever played the game. I tried out different hand positions to see whether I thought they would work, and when I found one I liked I stuck with it.

For example, as a long-time BioWare player, I need SPACE to trigger a pause. So I remap every game to do that, even games that don't strictly have a pause (in Skyrim, I use SPACE to open the Favourites menu, which acts as a pause - in FO3 I use SPACE to open VATS), and I do it before setting foot in the game.

Totally disagree. I just played ME3 and the controls were totally intuitive coming back to it after at least 12 months and they do not require finger gymnastics or looking away from the screen to make sure I hit the correct key.

 

I today started playing AC4 and again the controls were intuitive to use and if that means that I am just guessing that's fine but the main point is the key mapping and movement controls are far easier to use and do not break the immersion like the Tac Cam. Hitting space was far easier, in DA:O and you could left click on the character in game you wanted to swap to, which is much easier than clicking the avatar (IMO) or hitting a function key.

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

I've not gotten very far at all and I intend to put it away for a long time.  The graphics are great.  I can't win a fight with a nug in this game though. I can't pause the combat,  The camera takes off on a color tour right when I need to watch my character.  Some "low Level" fade demon has an insta- kill beam.  That's about it.  I want to play MY character.  In EVERY fight, my character instantly dies.  I don't want to use the companions, I want to use MY character.  I reload and he dies.  I reload and he dies...  I still like dragon age, but I'll just play origins again.  It was fun.

Agree my NPC"s are there to assist. This is the only Bioware game I have given up on trying to play on anything above normal and it is completely for the reasons you espouse. I just replayed ME3 and I rarely controlled my party members unless things got tough and then all I had to do was hold SHIFT, click on the ability I wanted them to use and it was done.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Totally disagree. I just played ME3 and the controls were totally intuitive coming back to it after at least 12 months and they do not require finger gymnastics or looking away from the screen to make sure I hit the correct key.

You wouldn't need to look away if you rrmapped them.

First, muscle memory is an incredible thing. That you played ME3 before makes it much easier for you to play it now.

Second, that you find it easy tells us only that YOU find it easy. That doesn't help people generally; that only helps you.

A customizable scheme is always better.

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

You wouldn't need to look away if you rrmapped them.

First, muscle memory is an incredible thing. That you played ME3 before makes it much easier for you to play it now.

Second, that you find it easy tells us only that YOU find it easy. That doesn't help people generally; that only helps you.

A customizable scheme is always better.

Yes there is muscle memory but the fact that it was not an issue for players who played ME3 would seem to support my statement. I certainly do not remember the KB&M controls in ME3 being an issue players felt strongly enough to be up in arms on the boards about. Also I have played DAI 3 times so there is plenty of muscle memory and pain which I have never experienced playing a game before, it's just that the controls are not very good in my personal opinion and that seems to be the sentiment of many on these boards.

 

I will certainly look at re-mapping the keys but for me the main issue is holding the right mouse button down to most efficiently steer the character and having to use F keys or click on the picture of the character to take control of them.

[Kurt M.]

Oh, for fack's sake....

 

Stop already with the "PC controls are horrible" 'issue'. I agree that mouse keybinding should have been included since the beginning, and that the tactical camera angle is just ridiculously uncomfortable, but apart from that I've had no major issues with them for more than 200+ hours of gameplay. Bind them to your tastes and get used to them already; it's not so difficult.

 

This community is worse than Spain's global mentality in terms of picking up a flaw and not leaving it go, no matter how minimal it is, or if it gets fixed eventually (ahem, ME3' endings with Extended Cut installed). And that's saying something.

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

Oh, for fack's sake....

 

Stop already with the "PC controls are horrible" 'issue'. I agree that mouse keybinding should have been included since the beginning, and that the tactical camera angle is just ridiculously uncomfortable, but apart from that I've had no major issues with them for more than 200+ hours of gameplay. Bind them to your tastes and get used to them already; it's not so difficult.

 

This community is worse than Spain's global mentality in terms of picking up a flaw and not leaving it go, no matter how minimal it is, or if it gets fixed eventually (ahem, ME3' endings with Extended Cut installed). And that's saying something.

Why can't we discuss this?

 

I have over 500 hrs of play and enjoyed playing the game but there is no harm in discussing things we don't like, isn't that what forums are for - discussing things???

[Kurt M.]

Why can't we discuss this?

 

I have over 500 hrs of play and enjoyed playing the game but there is no harm in discussing things we don't like, isn't that what forums are for - discussing things???

 

And why can't I discuss that it isn't as flawed as everybody likes to say? xP

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

And why can't I discuss that it isn't as flawed as everybody likes to say? xP

No one but your previous post suggested we should get over it and stop discussing it!!!

[Kurt M.]

No one but your previous post suggested we should get over it and stop discussing it!!!

 

Semantics

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yes there is muscle memory but the fact that it was not an issue for players who played ME3 would seem to support my statement. I certainly do not remember the KB&M controls in ME3 being an issue players felt strongly enough to be up in arms on the boards about. Also I have played DAI 3 times so there is plenty of muscle memory and pain which I have never experienced playing a game before, it's just that the controls are not very good in my personal opinion and that seems to be the sentiment of many on these boards.

I will certainly look at re-mapping the keys but for me the main issue is holding the right mouse button down to most efficiently steer the character and having to use F keys or click on the picture of the character to take control of them.

It's not perfect by any means, but the objections people raise against it tend to be hyperbolic.

I didn't play ME3 (because ME2 was terrible), but I remember thinking that the KBM controls for ME2 were vastly worse than they had been for ME. Luckily, I could remap them to resemble ME's layout, so they didn't affect my enjoyment (or lack thereof) of the game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Semantics

Semantics matter.

[Kurt M.]

Semantics matter.

 

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

It's not perfect by any means, but the objections people raise against it tend to be hyperbolic.

I didn't play ME3 (because ME2 was terrible), but I remember thinking that the KBM controls for ME2 were vastly worse than they had been for ME. Luckily, I could remap them to resemble ME's layout, so they didn't affect my enjoyment (or lack thereof) of the game.

Yeah most games seem to improve the controls, I just feel that DAI is a step back. AC seems to be the only game where they are intent on making them worse every iteration (except maybe 3 to 4).

 

And yes DAI is not perfect but it is playable and many things I discovered on the boards like the "F" key really helped. But to me I just didn't think DAO or DA2 needed to be changed. What do you mean by by the hyperbolic comment?

[DanteYoda]

Which classes? I've played Archer and Mage so far.

Rogue dagger its like playing warrior but with tissue paper armor.

[ThreeF]

Rogue dagger its like playing warrior but with tissue paper armor.

Ooh tricky, probably doable though. I mean in theory I can see it work, I'd probably still invest heavily in Subterfuge tree like with my Archer and play bait-disengage-sneak. Depends on your playing style I suppose.

[Aetika]

I´ve never used tactical camera. Not even once. I activated it few times by mistake and that´s it and I actually haven´t felt any need to use it.

I just use mouse script that switches the mouse to constant "free roaming" mode so I don´t have to hold right mouse button if I want to look around and it works like magic, I really recommend it!

 

Granted controls are clunky and the whole business with invisible barriers and every small obstacle requiring to jump over is  inconvenient, but if you give it time, the gameplay feels more or less normally.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yeah most games seem to improve the controls, I just feel that DAI is a step back. AC seems to be the only game where they are intent on making them worse every iteration (except maybe 3 to 4).

And yes DAI is not perfect but it is playable and many things I discovered on the boards like the "F" key really helped. But to me I just didn't think DAO or DA2 needed to be changed. What do you mean by by the hyperbolic comment?

DAO and DA2 used the same engine with largely the same systems (which makes the lack of tactical camera in DA2 even less forgivable.

DAI didn't get to use those systems, though, because of the new engine. So it's not so much that they changed anything, but when they rebuilt everything they didn't make it the same. I suspect this is because they reused systems from other Frostbite games where they could, so we got a bit of a Frankenstein's monster.

Regarding hyperbole, people are quick to declare DAI unplayable based on the controls, and that's just not true. Honestly, at this point all I'm missing is the ability to look up with the Tac Cam, and perhaps interacting at range.

But let's look at interacting at range. That would require intelligent pathfinding, which DAI also doesn't have. So adding that one seemingly small feature would then require building a whole other not-so-small feature to make it work.

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

 so we got a bit of a Frankenstein's monster. LOL

Regarding hyperbole, people are quick to declare DAI unplayable based on the controls, and that's just not true - I agree.

 

Honestly, at this point all I'm missing is the ability to look up with the Tac Cam, and perhaps interacting at range. I usually play a ranged character and am therefore very dependent on my melee character's doing their job. DAI does not do this very well but that is a tactics and programming issue. I just love being as far away as I can be and watching IB and Cass disappear and then run back to battle from behind me, not so bad normally but it makes dragon fights a lot harder.!!!!!

But let's look at interacting at range. That would require intelligent pathfinding, which DAI also doesn't have. So adding that one seemingly small feature would then require building a whole other not-so-small feature to make it work.

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

I´ve never used tactical camera. Not even once. I activated it few times by mistake and that´s it and I actually haven´t felt any need to use it.

I just use mouse script that switches the mouse to constant "free roaming" mode so I don´t have to hold right mouse button if I want to look around and it works like magic, I really recommend it!

 

Granted controls are clunky and the whole business with invisible barriers and every small obstacle requiring to jump over is  inconvenient, but if you give it time, the gameplay feels more or less normally.

 

What is the script that switches the mouse to constant free roaming mode and what sort of muse do you use?

[Avo]

Just wanted to chime in here. I'm in the exact same boat as the OP. The game has such potential, but the controls are killing it for me. Please give us click-to-move/loot and click-to-autoattack back.

[Reverend1313]

I've been a HUGE whiner since release for how terrible the controls were and continue to be. I've probably spouted off that the game is unplayable and I agree that's a vast exaggeration and hyperbole to most people. But that is essentially its spot on for me because of the standards i expect from a PC game. I bought the game and the controls didn't meet the basic standards i have for a PC game so I got my money back. Still waiting on controls I feel meet my standards, but honestly with Whitcher, Swords Coast, and Pillars coming out I doubt I will ever invest my money into this game again. The only reason i post is because its slow at work and I need to pass the time waiting for moronic vendors to finally get back to me . 

[Sylvius the Mad]

I usually play a ranged character and am therefore very dependent on my melee character's doing their job. DAI does not do this very well but that is a tactics and programming issue. I just love being as far away as I can be and watching IB and Cass disappear and then run back to battle from behind me, not so bad normally but it makes dragon fights a lot harder.!!!!![/color][/b]

I tend to play all the characters, so the bad AI doesn't affect me much.

But I will admit I cheesed the dragons from extreme range with my mage staff. The melee characters would run forward and then reappear behind me, and the dragon would never react.

The two times I killed a dragon some other way, though, didn't really involve tactics. I fought Kaltenzahn when I was 4 levels higher than him, and that wasn't challenging at all, and I accidentally got too close to the Crestwood dragon and it quickly killed everyone except Cassandra, so Cassandra just stood there, maintained her guard, and soloed it with an 82 damage axe. Took forever.

But back to the camera, I really like how I can take the camera and scout ahead in dungeons and buildings. Looking around corners hasn't ever worked this well in a BioWare game, I think.