328 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Tevinter

I leave BSN for a few days and Tevinter invades the forum, madness

[Master Warder Z_]

where did this thread come from......

A Truck Stop restroom in upstate New Jersey.

[dragonflight288]

Is it love to simply fob off responsibility for judging what you consider a sin onto a god?

 

Errr, no. 

 

As this is off topic, I'll put it into a spoiler for people to read if they so choose, and I'll leave it at that. I'll happily discuss it in PM's, but this thread isn't the place for it.

 

Spoiler

We must recognize that we are not perfect beings and are on a journey of continual self-improvement. For example, if I were to sin, say with robbery, it would be my church's beliefs that I must face the consequences of my actions, but should I wish to repent before God it would fall on me to make amends. I would have to do all I can do. Return what was stolen or pay for it, sincerely apologize and then strive to never do the same thing again. 

 

We remain responsible and accountable for our actions, and we must face the consequences of our actions. But we are to love and support everyone around us, but we are also told to be wise and recognize that all actions have consequences. 

 

Should a person have a family member who is a criminal and in a gang, we are not telling them to be all judgemental and hate on them, but to love and support them, but also accept the consequences of their actions. Criminal activity often results in jail time, fines, and other harsh penalties. A parent ought not stop loving their child because their child is living a life not in line with God's commandments, but that does not mean approving and supporting everything they do. 

 

Take teenage pregnancy as an example. The parent shouldn't disown their child and force them to raise the child on their own. They should support their child and help as possible, but allow them to live with the consequences of their decision. It's not the child's fault the parents got themselves involved in something that they weren't fully prepared for, and the prospective parents need support and love from those closest to them. 

 

We are responsible for our own actions, and we are taught to love one another as best we can, try to be the best we can be. Be better today than we were yesterday, and better tomorrow than we are today. We must actively work to improve ourselves. 

 

We have faith in God, but faith without works is dead. Simply professing belief is not enough.

 

Now that I finished that little bit on some very basic beliefs, I'll drop this subject because it's not at all part of the thread's main topic. Again, I'll happily discuss it in PM's as this thread isn't the place for it. 

[dragonflight288]

It really is an extremely difficult thing to explain and when we're young, sometimes we question ourselves. I'm not saying all of us do but I know that I tried to accept who I was supposed to be but it just kept getting worse. Accepting myself and making the changes was the most frightening thing I've done in life, I had to go against what my parents wanted for me and to expose myself to everyone, it's a truly scary thing. Transitioning at work where everyone saw me as male was equally scary, which turned out wonderfully, better than I could have imagined, people at work are genuinely happy for me and tell me how much happier I seem to them. One of my best friends at work is a very religious man and he's still one of my best friends, which makes me very happy. I harbor no ill will towards religion, I grew up in a Christian family, was an alter boy as a youth. In the end I just had to do what was best for me.

 

Well good for you. I cannot expect anything more than that. 

 

But that's not the be-all end-all of what kind of person you are, right?

 

I mean, you have been very considerate in trying to answer my questions, and I can tell you really are trying your best. I haven't seen you flame or troll anyone, so that already is a good thing about you.

 

I know you're into gaming, or at least into the dragon age games and a fan of bioware otherwise you wouldn't be here. You have other hobbies I'm sure, friends you associate with, shows you enjoy watching, a life worth living. 

 

I couldn't care less if someone is whatever sexuality or ethnicity because there's always so much more than that, and what's deeper is the true meat of the quality of a person, and from what I can tell, you are a very good one with similar hobbies and interests as me based on the fact that we both love dragon age and/or bioware enough to create a profile here on the forums and discuss things here. 

[Lee80]

Yes, I am very grateful that BioWare makes LGBT characters and that I can role play a character like myself.  It makes a huge difference for me and I know it does for many others as well.     

[SofaJockey]

How very narrow-minded of you. I like to play many different kinds of characters, most of which are female, because it allows me to explore that side of me. ...

 

A little mean don't you think Aulis? Narrow mindedness applies more to interactions with real life people surely. If you prefer to 'self-insert' in RPG's that just a player choice. Like you (it seems) I will role play as a range of characters and BioWare regularly gives that opportunity, but that's not everyone's choice, and it is just that, a choice we make that we are free to make  .

 

More generally, congrats to the posters of the past several pages, truly this is BSN on a good day 

[Zobert]

How very narrow-minded of you. I like to play many different kinds of characters, most of which are female, because it allows me to explore that side of me. But even if I couldn't I wouldn't cry over it, because every character is worth exploring, and their genitals really shouldn't ****** matter. Any person who can't look past someone's genitals is sexist, self-centered and lacks any form of empathy. Seriously, how can you say with a straight face that you can't play a bunch of pixels because it wasn't created with meshes that resemble books? Take another perspective, there are more people in the world than just you!

 

Because I spent years doing it and now I don't have to.  It has nothing to do with empathy.  I don't choose to wear high heels now, either.  Used to wear them and skirts because of work expectations.  Don't do that either.

 

I'll make an exception for any of the males in the Sonic the Hedgehog Series.  I guess I only have empathy for things with quills that can run fast.  I"m such an unsympathetic ****** to cyber humans....what can I say?

[Aulis Vaara]

There have been females in games since at least 1987, that's almost thirty years now. Do try to keep up, nor have women ever been excluded much, even in first person shooters. In Unreal Tournament, for instance, you had a ton of female avatars, and RPGs have had mixed rosters for as long as I can remember.

The non-analysis of videogames started by Sarkeesian is bullshit. Women have always been welcome in games. Selfish assholes who want everyone to bow down to their wishes aren't welcome anywhere, and has nothing to do with gender.

****** self centered nonsense.

[Aulis Vaara]

A little mean don't you think Aulis? Narrow mindedness applies more to interactions with real life people surely. If you prefer to 'self-insert' in RPG's that just a player choice. Like you (it seems) I will role play as a range of characters and BioWare regularly gives that opportunity, but that's not everyone's choice, and it is just that, a choice we make that we are free to make .

More generally, congrats to the posters of the past several pages, truly this is BSN on a good day

Why should I try to be nice when I get called a misogynist just for having the gall to be born with a penis?

Why should I be nice when the first person on our planet to put a robot on an asteroid is verbally abused to the point of breaking down crying on TV because some people didn't like his shirt (apparently it promoted abuse)?

Why should I be nice, when people's griefs are based on lies that were only intended to make money? Why should I bow down to the lies and the hypocrisy?

Someone should stand up for what is right, and by Odin's beard, I am someone.

[Xilizhra]

Why should I be nice when the first person on our planet to put a robot on an asteroid is verbally abused to the point of breaking down crying on TV because some people didn't like his shirt (apparently it promoted abuse)?

You say the first thing as if it had any direct relevance to the second. It's also a distortion of the actual complaint, which is that it promoted a casually sexist image (and forgive me, but I can't be too annoyed by people who say that slathering oneself with naked women isn't the most ideal fashion choice for broadcasting science news).

[Aulis Vaara]

Freedom of speech apparently means nothing to the mods here, so I'm out.

And sorry, but why can women show off their boobs in real life but not on a shirt? And what about artistic and personal freedom?

[stop_him]

There have been females in games since at least 1987, that's almost thirty years now. Do try to keep up, nor have women ever been excluded much, even in first person shooters. In Unreal Tournament, for instance, you had a ton of female avatars, and RPGs have had mixed rosters for as long as I can remember.

The non-analysis of videogames started by Sarkeesian is bullshit. Women have always been welcome in games. Selfish assholes who want everyone to bow down to their wishes aren't welcome anywhere, and has nothing to do with gender.

****** self centered nonsense.

Women have "always" been welcome?   Oh my, if only that were actually true. 

 

I think the ladies of the thread who have posted to express their appreciation of being able to play as female characters think otherwise.

 

Sarkeesian is not bullshit; only those who are easily threatened by the concept of sharing take offense. All she is asking for is making games that are more inclusive--which Bioware already does. She's not taking away your "giant booby volleyball" games or "road rage murder the prostitutes" games.

 

Companies already make products that you do not use, say tampons, for instance. Will you rage against the machine for creation of a product that was not created solely for your use? Not likely. So why do you care if Bioware decides to make a game with "strong independent woman" characters or gay or black or whatever category person Bioware wants to check off their list?

[KainD]

Freedom of speech apparently means nothing to the mods here, so I'm out.

And sorry, but why can women show off their boobs in real life but not on a shirt? And what about artistic and personal freedom?

Hah, it's a two way street - freedom of speech also allows people to say negative things about ones shirt, because that's how they feel. It's up to that guy to grow a thicker skin and stand up for his freedom to wear such a shirt.

[Xilizhra]

Freedom of speech apparently means nothing to the mods here, so I'm out.

And sorry, but why can women show off their boobs in real life but not on a shirt? And what about artistic and personal freedom?

Freedom of speech also means freedom of criticism. I read through some of the comments about it and I didn't see any that extended into personal harassment, as opposed to criticism of the shirt itself and its implications, so I'd say they're in the clear. As for your first question, we'll do the compare/contrast of situations just as soon as a woman scientist talks about a major accomplishment while wearing only lingerie.

[KainD]

Do you really believe in the freedom of speech though Xil? It actually also includes the right to be prejudice against other people, and judging people like you and I for say not behaving according to today's society standards.

[Xilizhra]

Do you really believe in the freedom of speech though Xil? It actually also includes the right to be prejudice against other people, and judging people like you and I for say not behaving according to today's society standards.

Freedom of speech is a legal term, so yes.

[KainD]

Freedom of speech is a legal term, so yes.

Well legally we do not really have the freedom of speech.

[Incantrix]

See, threads like these almost always transform from a nice thread into sjw fests.

Sjw seek these threads out like gold.

[daveliam]

Well, up until this last page, this has been a fascinating read since I left the thread at about page 6.  Danielle, you continue to be one of my favorite posters on BSN.  I'm glad that you weathered the Krem-hate storm that you were enduring.  The forums are a better place with you here!

[SofaJockey]

See, threads like these almost always transform from a nice thread into sjw fests.

Sjw seek these threads out like gold.

 

I'm curious, what does an 'sjw fest' actually mean?

I thought the thread was running quite nicely until the last page or so...

[M-Taylor]

I was largely referring to dialogue that relates to sexual preferences. Merrill shows fondness for qunari men, an example I was thinking of actually, yet I can't recall anything suggesting lesbian tendencies outside of the romance. Anders... Certainly can see him as bi. But Josephine and Fenris? I just don't see Fenris as bi, and Josephine is so traditional that I cannot picture her in a scandalous homosexual relationship that holds no prospect of children, inheritance, etc. She also has no homosexual dialogue outside a relationship, yet shows interests in men (Ex: Blackwall, and Iron Bull and Cullen naked).

 

Gaider wrote Fenris, and in an interview with a fan he stated that he originally wrote the Fenris romance arc for Male Hawke only.

 

I'm just saying, this is the type of stuff that annoys me as a male gay gamer. It's hard to avoid the 'stereotypes' for certain LBGT.

 

In this thread alone, people have been saying what characters they think are examples of good LBGT characters. The ones listing, even people praising them, are nearly always the stereotype of their sexuality. Isabela is hailed as a good depiction of bisexual while Merrill is unbelievable. Why? Is it because Isabela is promiscious while Merrill is, for lack of a better word, frigid? Because believe it or not, bisexual people can be reserved and not sex maniacs too.

 

And then your comment about Fenris. Why is he unbelievable, while Anders who had cemented 'straight' history is 'believeable'? Is it because Anders, even with Justice involved, is slightly flamboyant while Fenris is incredibly masculine? Despite the fact that his writer issued a statement that Fenris was originally gay?

 

This is how media is still stuck in the stone ages in many ways. I do applaud Bioware for their positive depiction of LBGT characters, but they're still professing these really out dated views of LBGT people. Dorian, while an amazing character, is obviously flamboyant and gay. That's not a bad thing at all, but why did they write him like that? Sera again, with all her flaws, is again arguably obviously a lesbian. The other LBGT female in Inquistion, Josephine, is deemed as unbelievable because she does not advocate the 'lesbian stereotype'. It's stuff like this that annoys me.

 

So yeah, I'm really grateful to Bioware for creating these wonderful characters that represent the LBGT community. I just wish the next step in progression is depicting LBGT without the stereotypes. Like I said, I'm a gay guy who's not stereotypically gay. I like games, I play rugby, I dislike fashion and the last thing you would call me is flamboyant. Depict a gay character like that, or a lesbian character who's incredibily 'feminine', and I'd be sold that Bioware is a positive advocate for LBGT acceptance.

 

As it is now, Bioware is an advocate for LBGT and that's cool, but I'd question how positive their impact is when their characters are still depicting woefully outdated stereotypes based on social stigma.

 

Edit:

 

What I'm basically saying is now Bioware needs to depict a variety of LBGT characters, because LBGT is like an society. It's so so so varied, and not every single gay man is fashion conscience while disliking sport, and not every lesbain is a tom boy and not every bisexual person craves sex and doesn't give a ****. These stereotypes only hinder progression in my opinion.
 

[Farangbaa]

Oh crap, Jesus talk. I'm outta here.

[Violetbliss]

I just wanted to chime in and say that for this reason alone I will always be willing to look into a Bioware roleplaying game, the inclusiveness of many types of characters and personalities; it's not always perfect depictions (but then what is that etc) but I truly feel like not many roleplaying games give you the option of affecting your character's personality to the same degree, -outside your headcanon of course-. Headcanon can be a strong thing, and some games really stimulate that side.

 

I saw the Witcher used as an example above and it perfectly describes me and the issues that can arise as well when you have a one-personality game like that. I really want to delve into it and that world, but it's just super-hard for me to identify as Geralt so the rpg aspect is a struggle for me in it. I've never had this problem with Bioware games, even the ones where the options are limited (Jade Empire, DA2 etc) with the main character.

 

I don't think a game has to conform to options all the time, but an rpg is just something that is very easy to get into and see from your own eyes in another guise so to speak. I don't even fault the developers of the Witcher, to use the above example, since they obviously want to tell Geralt's story, and there's more games out there if I can't enjoy the game. I'm just saying it's actually a great thing to feel like the developers created a template that is natural for -you-, and a great thing to include for a point of view diversity.

 

I'd also like to add that I think stereotypes and such is someting of an impossibility to avoid entirely, because in any given game you only have so many potential relationships (whether friends, enemies or lovers) and well, I don't think most of the characters in bioware's games are unusual to find in our lives, minus the penchant for casual murder maybe. It's the details that sets people apart the most, and I feel like it's the same with written characters. There's been varying success with that

[KainD]

I'm curious, what does an 'sjw fest' actually mean?
I thought the thread was running quite nicely until the last page or so...

Sjw stands for Social Justice Warrior.