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The Catatlyst, the Citadel, and the Crusible


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#1
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It's a big mystery when it comes to how these three are connected the way they are. You have a device that can destroy or control the Reapers, that not only needs to be attached to the Citadel, but also needs the creator of the Reapers to use it. Lots of speculation. Figured I'd make a thread to help figure things out on what does what, and who was where, and separate a lot of the fiction with facts.

 

Let's get some things out of the way. I'll be updating all the known facts here, so people can use them to discuss.

 

1) Where is Shepard when he/she enters the Citadel, and where does he/she make the final choices?

 

Here, based on the images:

 

tumblr_njgp2yRpTt1u4a13wo1_1280.png

 

tumblr_nkgzxqvrgl1u4a13wo1_1280.png

 

Shepard most likely teleported there (maybe a little closer), because it's the only perspective that allows Shepard to see the bottom arms open, see the Earth from above and the edge of space, and not have the Citadel inner ring get in the way, or the Crucible blocking his/her view.

 

2) Are the final choices attached or apart of the Crucible or on the Citadel?

 

Unless everything Shepard saw was all an illusion, the final choices were attached to the Citadel, and not the Crucible. All three choices only effect the energy coming out of the Crucible, into Citadel Tower.

 

tumblr_njgp3lfyLO1u4a13wo1_1280.png

 

1) Were the choices there before Shepard arrived?

 

Based on this image, no, unless they were hidden on the surface. Before the Crucible docked, they weren't there at all. They only appeared after. As the Catalyst says, the Crucible changed it. This is one of those changes. Based on the image above, the flat surface split into sections in order to allow the beam from the Crucible to go through.

 

tumblr_nkgzyvig2x1u4a13wo1_1280.png

 

 

4) Could the Catalyst make either choice without needing someone?

 

No. The Catalyst clearly states it can't make them happen, and needs Shepard to act for it.

 

"The Crucible changed me. Created new possibilities. But I can't make them happen. If there is to be a solution, you must act".

 

Why, we can only speculate. But if Shepard refuses to use the Crucible, the Catalyst doesn't use it, and instead shuts it off. Proof that for whatever the reason, it needs Shepard to make the choice, or it is never done.

 

5) Was the Crucible originally made to work with the Citadel and/or the Reaper AI?

 

From what Vendetta (the Prothean VI) claims, it was not.

 

"The plans for the crucible were pasted down to us from the previous cycle. And countless cycles before that. At some point, it is difficult to pin point when, the crucible where adapted to incorporate the use of the Catalyst. Presumably, the crucible was not sufficiently powerful enough to defeat the Reapers."

 

6) What does the Citadel or Reaper AI do with the Crucible?

 

Vendetta makes the following claim:

 

"The Catalyst enhances Dark Energy transmissions, and coordinates the entire Mass Relay Network."

 

The Catalyst claims:

 

"The Device you refer to as the crucible is little more then a power source. However, in combination with the Citadel and the mass relays, it is capable of releasing tremendous amounts of energy throughout the galaxy. It is crude but effective and adaptive in its design.

 

7) Who designed the Crucible?

 

The Catalysts claims we don't know them, and there's not enough time to explain.

 

However, this does not answer who "adapted" the plans to the citadel.


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#2
Valmar

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Actually the catalyst cannot use the crucible. Shepard has to be the one to do it.

 

I think we're over analyzing these things too much, personally. Though I do find it interesting nevertheless.



#3
Display Name Owner

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Actually it looks like the TIM/Catalyst bits take place upside down under the base of the Citadel tower. The tower extends up towards the tips of the wards, see? the bit marked in the first pic as the place Shep teleports from Earth is the tower itself.



#4
Linkenski

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" Were the choices there be fore Shepard reached the opposite site of the citadel tower centrum? "

No they weren't and this is implicitly explained by Anderson.

"the wall here just realigned itself. This place is shifting... changing!"

So we are on the underside of the citadel ring which is being changed actively. The crucible is the big round thing in the middle and top shooting a beam down towards the center. The citadel changes to allow connection with the crucible.

The question becomes: who is responsible for the citadel changing physically, because if it is the Catalyst it does create the plothole of why he couldn't open the arms himself in ME1.

#5
Valmar

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The question becomes: who is responsible for the citadel changing physically, because if it is the Catalyst it does create the plothole of why he couldn't open the arms himself in ME1.

 

I'd argue the catalyst is a plothole regardless of who or what caused the rooms to shift.

The citadel OS should have control. If it does, plothole. If it doesn't, plothole. They wrote themselves into a corner the moment they decided the citadel was a part of the catalyst, imo.


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#6
themikefest

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The walls were shifting, changing before the crucible even docked with the Citadel and before Shepard opened the arms to allow the crucible to dock


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#7
Iakus

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The walls were shifting, changing before the crucible even docked with the Citadel and before Shepard opened the arms to allow the crucible to dock

Right.  So presumably Shepard popped into teh Citadel somewhere in the Presideum Tower, which was undergoing a mysterious restructuring.  The confrontation with TIM took place inthe Council chambers.  And the final choice was...on the roof of the tower, maybe?

 

The final choices must be attatched to the Citadel, as the Crucible "is little more than a power source"



#8
KrrKs

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For me, it looks like the 'upward'* pointing tiles/plates from your 3rd picture are movable (along at least 2 axes -up/down and fore/back). So I guess that they usually retract, forming the tower's surface and covering the 'choices'.

 

*If ME:Next introduces an additional Citadel gravity -vector, I'm going to use colours instead of directions

 

Edit: The place where the TIM confrontation takes place never made much sense to me. It must be somewhere at the outside of the tower, but it sure is nothing near the council-chambers. From ME1 and 3 we know how that place looks, ME1 even showed the outer towers hull.

From the following elevator, it appears to be at the Tower's base, yet the skybox doesn't show the presidium ring -which should be visible from there.

Somewhere in the middle is also strange, as that would place 2 opposing artificial gravity vectors in direct vicinity to one another.



#9
themikefest

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I would guess the confrontation between Anderson, TIM and Shepard takes place near the base of the tower. After that, the elevator takes Shepard to the other side of the base where the catalyst introduces itself and we can see the crucible



#10
dreamgazer

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From a prior discussion on the topic:

 

crucible_parts_explaination_small.png


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#11
Linkenski

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So, what, the little cylinder in the middle that disappears after docking "folds out" to become control and destroy? I'm not buying that.

 

I think it's just production chronology that was off and parts of the cinematic were made before the others where details had changed.


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#12
KrrKs

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I have a few problems with the Idea that the 'decision' were part of the Crucible.

 

1.) The Crucible attachment is (perfectly?) cylindrical, with 4 extrusions. The Decision-structure consists of 6 tiles, with 6 connection points to the citadel. This would result in 6 extrusions.

 

2.) The Crucible extrusions docking and integrating into the citadel's systems must have happened incredible fast (and accurate!) Especially the connection to the destroy tube and the cables on the underside of the control rod don't seem as they allow such a procedure.

 

I forgot point 3, but for me this 'nubbin' looks more like an oversized safety-pin which gets retracted into the firing-chamber to allow its activation.



#13
Fixers0

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Actually the catalyst cannot use the crucible. Shepard has to be the one to do it.

 

Really, then who shuts down the Synthesis beam in refuse?


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#14
Linkenski

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I think it's simple. The Crucible is a part of the Citadel once it's docked and the Synthesis beam requires an organic (and synthetic hybrid?) to infuse with.

 

You two are talking about two differnt things. Valmar was talking about using the crucible AKA actually performing what it required to use control, synthesis or destroy and you are talking about the Catalyst turning on or off the crucible. He's a hologram so he can't physically interact in any of the 3 required ways for the choices.



#15
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Actually the catalyst cannot use the crucible. Shepard has to be the one to do it.

 

I don't believe I said that in this thread. Is there a typo I missed? Or do you mean when I said "but also needs the creator of the Reapers to use it"? I mean the Catalyst might be needed in order to change the Citadel to work with the crucible when I said that. It's either that, or the crucible somehow programmed the Citadel to change, and the Catalyst has no power. Either one is speculation.



#16
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So we are on the underside of the citadel ring which is being changed actively. The crucible is the big round thing in the middle and top shooting a beam down towards the center. The citadel changes to allow connection with the crucible.

The question becomes: who is responsible for the citadel changing physically, because if it is the Catalyst it does create the plothole of why he couldn't open the arms himself in ME1.

 

I don't think we're on the ring, based on perspective. If we were at the bottom of the ring, we'd not see the Citadel arms open, or if we did, they would've been much closer. If we were at the side of the ring (where the Crucible docks), and looking at the back doors opening, our view would be more surrounded by earth, and not looking at it's side, with a bottom view of space. That's why I believe Shepard is more in the tower. The little blue bit on the Citadel is also in the center, and not the ring.

 

tumblr_nkht8n99hd1u4a13wo1_1280.png

 

Also, you'll notice in the Extended Cut, the Conduit is shown sending a beam to the tower.

 

tumblr_nkht7wSDft1u4a13wo1_1280.png



#17
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From a prior discussion on the topic:

 

Snip

 

Cool. I just rewatched the cinematic, and noticed that. So the Crucible "does" add both Control and Destroy onto the Citadel. I'll update that later.



#18
Valmar

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I don't believe I said that in this thread. Is there a typo I missed? Or do you mean when I said "but also needs the creator of the Reapers to use it"? I mean the Catalyst might be needed in order to change the Citadel to work with the crucible when I said that. It's either that, or the crucible somehow programmed the Citadel to change, and the Catalyst has no power. Either one is speculation.

 

I see. I misread, then. My mistake.

 

So, what, the little cylinder in the middle that disappears after docking "folds out" to become control and destroy? I'm not buying that.

 

I think it's just production chronology that was off and parts of the cinematic were made before the others where details had changed.

 

If one wasn't willing to accept such literal interpretation that nitpicts every little detail then this wouldn't really be the topic for them in the first place. I agree with the sentiment though. I still believe we might be looking too deeply into something that was never really planned out to the extent we make it to be. Though I must say, personally, I'm genuinely surprised at the revelations stargazer's posted picture brings.

 

I don't really have the level of confidence or faith in bioware to believe its intentional and think, like you, that its likely just a shift in design that was overlooked. That being said, the speculation the picture presents is surprisingly coherent, imo. If I wasn't so skeptical of them paying THAT much attention to the details I'd even argue that it must be true.



#19
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I have a few problems with the Idea that the 'decision' were part of the Crucible.

 

1.) The Crucible attachment is (perfectly?) cylindrical, with 4 extrusions. The Decision-structure consists of 6 tiles, with 6 connection points to the citadel. This would result in 6 extrusions.

 

2.) The Crucible extrusions docking and integrating into the citadel's systems must have happened incredible fast (and accurate!) Especially the connection to the destroy tube and the cables on the underside of the control rod don't seem as they allow such a procedure.

 

I forgot point 3, but for me this 'nubbin' looks more like an oversized safety-pin which gets retracted into the firing-chamber to allow its activation.

 

I think it's more then just 6 tiles. Based on the distance and length, it might be a cylinder attachment, and the front of it has the choices. AKA, the choice chamber is also that cylinder attachment. With the tower blank in one shot, the cylinder lands on top of it, and attaches.



#20
Vazgen

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I think the cylindric thing is folded inside the Crucible. Here are images I got with flycam:

Spoiler

I also got images that showcase how Anderson and Shepard could end up in different places

Spoiler

The small room with the beam conduit looks separate from the corridor. I believe the structure with corridors rotates around the conduit room.

 

Also, as another treat, the bottom of the Synthesis pool :P

Spoiler

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#21
ImaginaryMatter

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It's on the Citadel. That's where the Catalyst says they are.



#22
Valmar

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@Vazgen

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who came up with the "it rotates" conclusion. It's funny how many people seem to miss that.



#23
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Actually it looks like the TIM/Catalyst bits take place upside down under the base of the Citadel tower. The tower extends up towards the tips of the wards, see? the bit marked in the first pic as the place Shep teleports from Earth is the tower itself.

 

Yes, exactly. Shepard is looking at Earth from above, with Earth below. Here's a more specific picture.

 

tumblr_nkhwy5O5k01u4a13wo1_1280.jpg



#24
Linkenski

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The "shepard's perspective" doesn't make sense to me.

 

Do you know how far he'd have to walk from there and to the spot where the crucible is docked? Definitely further than what we walked in the game.

 

474869359.jpg

 

I couldn't find a proper picture, but this room takes shepard 'up' and there is a hole in the middle of the ceiling of this map and that's where the crucible is docked, so Shepard walking "vertically" through the citadel tower like in the picture above doesn't make sense. He arrives within the long platform that extends from the middle ring to the left of where it says "Shepard's perspective" on the picture above, not within the citadel tower.

 

Like this (excuse my sloppy MS Paint skills)

 

ksFFWUy.jpg

 

EDIT, EDIT, EDIT. Sorry for inconvenience if you responded to my earlier picture. It was incorrect lol.



#25
von uber

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The problem I have is that the form and function don't match. The design (like a Geth ship) make no sense for what it is supposed to be doing.

 

Handy though, as it allows Shep to walk through the place.