13 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragonzzilla]

We all (hopefully) know what's a Reaver and what's a Berserker. One harnesses their anger in order to acquire tremendous strength and resilience in battle, becoming a swirling storm of blood and steel and pain; a soldier's nightmare given form. The other is... also that. Huh. Yes, I am aware of what makes them distinct from each other.

• Berserkers owe their fighting style to the warrior caste of Orzammar. This tradition was taught long ago taught to the Avvar barbarians of the Frostback Mountains and through them, made its way to the Ash Warriors.
• Reavers are warriors who use blood magic to give themselves power. To become a Reaver one must traditionally drink ritually-prepared dragon's blood.

Berserkers and Reavers fulfill a similar niche of fantasy combat: the crazed warrior. In DAO and DA2, Berserkers and Reavers stood beside each other as warrior specializations. But in DAI, the former is absent while Reavers remain. I find this a little odd. For the same reason Blood Mages were likely removed from DAI... the Inquisitor is a larger subject of scrutiny than the Warden or even Hawke; they represent the Inquisition at large. So wouldn't it follow that Reavers would be absent as well? Apparently no.

 

 

The "raging warrior" niche had to be filled, yes. But having such... let me say, easy, access to Reaver training devalues their implications (at least for me). They have to drink the ritually-prepared blood of a dragonkin; in exchange, they get abilities that borderline on blood magic. But most Reavers are members of dragon cults, whom we know are notoriously unfriendly and inconspicuous. I doubt they would part with their secrets easily; look at the Grey Wardens. Even Iron Bull, whose specialization is Reaver in DAI, says he's not an actual Reaver. It's just a "similar" style. Okay, so what's the point of him being a Reaver then (other than the dragon connections and it being Bull)? A Berserker fits him just as well, being an offensive-focused warrior.

 

Listen, I don't hate Reavers. They're probably a lot of fun to play (I've never played them for roleplay reasons). My argument's an exercise of logic. What do you think, which specialization more "acceptable", given the story implications and consistency?

[BurningLizard]

I agree that having Reaver be the crazed warrior class in this game doesn't make much sense compared to how in DA:O you basically had to potentially lose/sacrifice two companions (one a love interest) to gain the ability. While here it's just "yeah, whatever, I'll train you". I guess the reason is probably that Berserkers are kinda a generic fantasy trope, while Reaver is bioware's own invention. And given how learning specializations in DA:I involves a bunch of fetch quests it makes sense that they would chose reaver so you have to go gather the blood, etc. What kind of fetch quest could you really have for a Berserker? "Fetch a very annoying person and keep them around you at all times until you develop a deep seated rage against them and the world"? 

[Dragonzzilla]

And given how learning specializations in DA:I involves a bunch of fetch quests it makes sense that they would chose reaver so you have to go gather the blood, etc. What kind of fetch quest could you really have for a Berserker? "Fetch a very annoying person and keep them around you at all times until you develop a deep seated rage against them and the world"?

A Berserker Quest could go two ways:

• Get your ass kicked by a superior opponent (the trainer) until you build up enough fury to overcome his defenses.
• Gather several materials that can help induce the Berserker fury and or relieve it.

[Pacman]

"Fetch a very annoying person and keep them around you at all times until you develop a deep seated rage against them and the world"? 

 

That would have been the best specialization quest ever.

[Pacman]

I guess the reason is probably that Berserkers are kinda a generic fantasy trope, while Reaver is bioware's own invention.

 

And what about "Champion" specialization. How more generic can you get?

 

Berserker was by far my most favorite warrior spec in both DAO and DA2. I loved the power it gives in DAO and speed you get in DA2. I tried playing "Champion" and needless to say it is bland and boring - just as the name itself. BW should have given us Berserker instead of "Champion".

[Rekkampum]

We all (hopefully) know what's a Reaver and what's a Berserker. One harnesses their anger in order to acquire tremendous strength and resilience in battle, becoming a swirling storm of blood and steel and pain; a soldier's nightmare given form. The other is... also that. Huh. Yes, I am aware of what makes them distinct from each other.

• Berserkers owe their fighting style to the warrior caste of Orzammar. This tradition was taught long ago taught to the Avvar barbarians of the Frostback Mountains and through them, made its way to the Ash Warriors.
• Reavers are warriors who use blood magic to give themselves power. To become a Reaver one must traditionally drink ritually-prepared dragon's blood.

Berserkers and Reavers fulfill a similar niche of fantasy combat: the crazed warrior. In DAO and DA2, Berserkers and Reavers stood beside each other as warrior specializations. But in DAI, the former is absent while Reavers remain. I find this a little odd. For the same reason Blood Mages were likely removed from DAI... the Inquisitor is a larger subject of scrutiny than the Warden or even Hawke; they represent the Inquisition at large. So wouldn't it follow that Reavers would be absent as well? Apparently no.

 

 

The "raging warrior" niche had to be filled, yes. But having such... let me say, easy, access to Reaver training devalues their implications (at least for me). They have to drink the ritually-prepared blood of a dragonkin; in exchange, they get abilities that borderline on blood magic. But most Reavers are members of dragon cults, whom we know are notoriously unfriendly and inconspicuous. I doubt they would part with their secrets easily; look at the Grey Wardens. Even Iron Bull, whose specialization is Reaver in DAI, says he's not an actual Reaver. It's just a "similar" style. Okay, so what's the point of him being a Reaver then (other than the dragon connections and it being Bull)? A Berserker fits him just as well, being an offensive-focused warrior.

 

Listen, I don't hate Reavers. They're probably a lot of fun to play (I've never played them for roleplay reasons). My argument's an exercise of logic. What do you think, which specialization more "acceptable", given the story implications and consistency?

 

Reavers are in my opinion, since Berserkers are based primarily around Dwarves and the latter is a rather common trope of role playing games. Reavers aren't based around a particular race, and considering the wealth of dragons to hunt in the game, it's a class specialization that makes sense - especially if you're a Qunari warrior. Also, you kinda did befriend the Reavers in the first game if you spoiled the Ashes at the temple, and re: hostility one could argue the same about Necromancers or Assassins, both of which have had entire sidequests were centered around. Their skills may be high risk/high damage, but they are easier to manage than Berserkers given how the latter sacrifices defense for offense. I typically play a Reaver spec with some Vanguard skills mixed in to build guard and a few Battlemaster skills to build stamina. It keeps my character and IB from constantly dying in heavy battles. 

[Xilizhra]

Reavers aren't really powered by emotion in the way berserkers are; they run solely on blood magic. It tends to make them travel along certain emotional channels, but it's not the same thing.

[BurningLizard]

And what about "Champion" specialization. How more generic can you get?

 

Berserker was by far my most favorite warrior spec in both DAO and DA2. I loved the power it gives in DAO and speed you get in DA2. I tried playing "Champion" and needless to say it is bland and boring - just as the name itself. BW should have given us Berserker instead of "Champion".

Good point about the champion, I hadn't thought of that one. In concept I like the idea of my character being a champion, since it makes sense for a leader of a group to be that. But gameplay wise it's boring no matter which of the three games we're talking about.

[His Name was HYR!!]

"Fetch a very annoying person and keep them around you at all times until you develop a deep seated rage against them and the world"? 

 

Yeah, that would actually make for an interesting fetch-quest. Can't have that!

[Qun00]

Yeah, but Reavers are more badass 'cause they are dragon blood powered.

[o Ventus]

One is fueled by blood magic, the other is fueled by madness and sighting ability.

 

To use a WoW comparison, one is a Frost Death Knight (built for dual-wielding), the other is a Fury Warrior. They look similar on paper (they both involve wielding 2 weapons and they're both all about being unpredictable in combat), but they're distinct in what they're actually able to accomplish and the means by which they accomplish it.

[Dracon525]

During DA:2 and before I knew about the Spec. trainers in DA:I, my main problem with Reavers was "How did they even become one? When the hell did they have the chance to drink dragon blood in some ritual?"

Now i'm just finiding it hard to move away from the 2-H Reaver. S+S Reaver's just seem weird to me, which unfortunately means all 3 of my Reaver's will have been 2-H-ers... (I know DA:O had Archery and D-W too, but i'd already used those up on other characters )

[Rekkampum]

During DA:2 and before I knew about the Spec. trainers in DA:I, my main problem with Reavers was "How did they even become one? When the hell did they have the chance to drink dragon blood in some ritual?"

Now i'm just finiding it hard to move away from the 2-H Reaver. S+S Reaver's just seem weird to me, which unfortunately means all 3 of my Reaver's will have been 2-H-ers... (I know DA:O had Archery and D-W too, but i'd already used those up on other characters )

 

They have the highest dps threshold out of the warrior classes if you build them right. My Reaver and Bull just pwn every boss or High Dragon we fight. It's almost unfair.

[Sifr]

 

 "Fetch a very annoying person and keep them around you at all times until you develop a deep seated rage against them and the world"? 

 

I dunno, I think the Surgeon-General has warned that exposure to individuals like the Adoring Fan (Oblivion), Sticky (Fallout 3) or Conrad Verner (Mass Effect) for more than ten minutes can push people into such a homicidal rage, they might never be able to recover from it?

 

Why do you think the Dwarves build practically everything out of stone? Makes things harder for their berserkers to break accidentally, plus stops their prospective berserkers-in-training from setting fire to the training grounds...