15 réponses à ce sujet

[Dieb]

 

A future Dragon Age shouldn't be gargantuanesque Open World anymore. I'm certain of it.

 

I was just playing Cassandra's loyalty mission again, and I have to say, Caer Oswin is one of the most beautiful places in the game. It has such a thick, perfectly set atmosphere in almost every regard. Surely, the basic principle of how "progressing through a level" works in Dragon Age doesn't really invite the designers to get overly creative when it comes to the sheer gameplay side -they never have been- but just the ambiente and the "that DA feeling" is utterly perfect.

 

So after defeating Lucius, I was standing there, looking at the amazing skyline with woods & valleys as far as the eye can see, a little watch tower here and there in the distance, and I had an AMAZING epiphany:

 

"This is nice."

 

I am not writing this as another thread, explaining why BioWare did bad open world fetch quest stuff, because I disagree with that anyways. Open world can never be as engaging as the main narrative, because it by definition erases any lingering sense of urgency-say-tension. Or it is a true sandbox game and doesn't need an overarching narrative (or is whidely ignored, see TES) and is filled with hundreds of little stories - I don't think this is the way DA games should be though.

 

All story missions in DAI per se were entertaining and engaging, the problem is just that the tension meter sunk to 0 with the "Keep" loading screen, as soon as all this sense of drama and urgency gets reset and thrown into a puddle in the Skyhold courtyard, along with my Inquisitor in his almighty  pyjamas.

 

All that's to say, I like the railroaded level progression more than I thought, because it gives the developers -similarly to movie directors- an elaborate idea of how the player's experience may be, and thus how they can enhance or influence it. That is not new input. But only now did I realize that Dragon Age needs this collaboration.

 

Some may claim that there are examples that manage to do both, and while I don't want to dismiss that, my personal opinion is that still, as of now, there are no games quite like BioWare games. There are open world games with a constantly engaging overarching plots, but they don't work like the way I want Dragon Age to work. (I also want pie)

 

 

I should really get off this mountain now, Cassandra is getting a little crabby.

 

 

 

P.S.: Image credit, some beautiful user on the BSN. May due displays of affection not exhaust you too much.

 

 

[Tinxa]

Is it ever revealed what happened to Bann Loren?

 

Cassandra mentions him at the beginning but you never run into him.

[Ruairi46]

I find that a more railroading experience does tend to lead to a larger emotional impact, for me at least. I can't think of any completely free roam that has brought me to tears (Sorry fallout 3 Dad), but obviously I don't speak for the masses. Mass Effect and Alan Wake are good examples of games that "railroad" you that are emotionally impacting.

[King Cousland]

*sigh* Images like that just make me think how much more beautiful Inquisition could have been if they hadn't squandered its aesthetic potential by sticking with the silly, incongruous art style. 

[songsmith2003]

Is it ever revealed what happened to Bann Loren?

 

Cassandra mentions him at the beginning but you never run into him.

 

Nope. I remember screaming at my screen. Everyone was concerned about the seekers. No one mentioned poor Bann Loren. If his body was lying around, I never found it.

[Dr. rotinaj]

I completely agree. Caer Oswin is easily in my top 3 environments because everything about it is great. The interiors have such awesome Fereldan decor, the throne room looks so cool with the big painting on the wall. The exteriors look fantastic with the lighting and other castles dotting the horizon.

 

The quest structure was really great too. A very good balance of combat and dialogue with cutscenes and some great lore was revealed. On top of that, an important decision to make at the end of the quest. Promise of Destruction is one of the examples of excellent quest design that I was hoping to see in DAI. Unfortunately, the focus on open world made these types of quests rare, especially outside of the main questline. Most of the decent quests in this game only have some of the great qualities of Cass' quest. Bull's quest was great and had a very tough and emotional choice, but the environment was just some area in the storm coast. The temple of Dirthamen and Sulevin's cradle were very good looking dungeons but had little dialogue and no cutscenes. This pattern of compromises in quest quality is followed in most of the quests in the game. Fortunately there are quests that are exceptions like this one, Calpernia's questline, and Varric's quest.

 

DAO and DA2 weren't exactly amazing for this either, but I really hoped to see an improvement in quest design in DAI. Instead that was sacrificed for exploration and open world. As for the next DA, I'm hoping for a reduction of scale with narrative taking precedence over exploration. I've always been skeptical of games that have an "open-world" and a "strong narrative." To me, the quest design of DAI and the rarity of quests like Promise of Destruction has justified that skepticism.

[PillarBiter]

For me personally, open world games are overrated. I can enjoy a well-made railroad game far more, because the developer has a better grip on the pacing. 

 

Don't get me wrong, the level were beautifully made in DAI but they were way too open for me. I hate making the comparison with DAO because it's such a cliché and really another game, but that game everywhere had a general line which you had to follow, and there were plenty of side rooms or alternate routes. I enjoy that a LOT more. 

 

But yeah, there are definetely some great wow locations in DAI. 

[Lumix19]

When I was at Caer Oswin I felt like I was playing Mark of the Assassin (for some reason) except the scenery was 1000 times more beautiful. I really enjoyed it, it felt familiar.

[Bad King]

Open worlds are fine as long as they are filled with detailed and interesting content. In DA:I, the open world would have been great if the main quest had been expanded into it and better integrated with it. Unfortunately, most of the open world maps in the game are irrelevant to the main quest and full of dull and simple minor quests.

 

I agree that Caer Oswin was epic, and a further bonus is that it was consistent with the art style of previous titles and lore. On the other hand, it really broke my immersion that Orlesian geography in this game consisted of deserts (Western Approach, Hidden Oasis etc.) and subtropical rainforests (Arbor WIlds) despite Orlais being so close to Ferelden and the icy wastelands to the south. IMO, such environments should only have been present in some of the northern lands (such as the Qunari lands and maybe Rivain).

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Open worlds are fine as long as they are filled with detailed and interesting content. In DA:I, the open world would have been great if the main quest had been expanded into it and better integrated with it. Unfortunately, most of the open world maps in the game are irrelevant to the main quest and full of dull and simple minor quests.

 

I agree that Caer Oswin was epic, and a further bonus is that it was consistent with the art style of previous titles and lore. On the other hand, it really broke my immersion that Orlesian geography in this game consisted of deserts (Western Approach, Hidden Oasis etc.) and subtropical rainforests (Arbor WIlds) despite Orlais being so close to Ferelden and the icy wastelands to the south. IMO, such environments should only have been present in some of the northern lands (such as the Qunari lands and maybe Rivain).

 

Well, Orlais is far bigger.

[Bad King]

Well, Orlais is far bigger.

 

It's nevertheless a southern nation that borders frozen wastelands. The Arbor Wilds should have looked more like the Chasind Wilds in DA:O.

[Wulfram]

Relatively open worlds can work if they're a bit more focused.  Crestwood is excellent, for example.  Give the area a nice strong central story to follow, and then build around that.

 

The Arbor Wilds could be a temperate rainforest like you get in, among other places, Alaska and Norway.  Not sure the geography totally makes sense for that - seems like it'd fit better if it was more coastal - but Bioware aren't geographers.

[Dieb]

The open world environments that work are those that have an overarching plot to themselves -not even necessarily tied in to the main plot too much. My favourite areas in the game are The Hissing Wastes, Fallow Mire, Empris du Lion and the Exalted Plains.

 

Empris du Lion works so well because almost every quest in it is related to the Red Templars occupying it; which has also visibly affected the entire region. Same goes for Fallow Mire. You are there for a reason, and you have a job to do. Both of those have lots of padding to the left & right so they don't appear like Disneyland rides, yet they are designed to lead you to a certain place where the adventure climaxes.

 

The Exalted Plains, and especially my most favourite area, The Hissing Wastes are examples of how well done, themed and throughly open world areas (in the unconnected way DAI strove to do) should look like. There is something -one thing- going on all over these places, and you are encouraged to find out more. It can't be unraveled by just reaching point B from point A, so it makes sense. You want to run around aimlessly, just to stumble over clues. As disappointing some of DAI's focuses may have been, climbing the nearest lookout point after first arriving in the Hissing Wastes and seeing those singular campfires faintly glowing in the distance under this goddamn beautiful star-flodded nightsky (immediately took me back to the titile screens of both Loom and Monkey Island); as well as realizing I can actually reach them; that ranks fairly high in my all-time video games moments. I wanted to explore those ruins like an archealogist, read all the documents & stone tablets, I wanted to find out what happened to that Thaig. I felt like a real old-fashioned adventurer***

 

***The combination of Inquisitor's Hat + "Hook & Tackle"-skill also helped with that.

[Wulfram]

I liked most of the Hissing wastes because you mostly didn't need to run around aimlessly.  The "maps" allowed you to, with a bit of thought, proceed logically to more or less the appropriate location.

The final clue unfortunately didn't allow this, but the rest were good.

[Fredward]

Dunno if Bann Loren survived his brush up with crazy but if he did he should totally be featured in Thedas' Architects Today for his superior ability in having the landscape work for him, accentuating the natur- yeah I don't know what I'm talking about but Caer Oswin IS gorgeous.

[Dieb]

I liked most of the Hissing wastes because you mostly didn't need to run around aimlessly.  The "maps" allowed you to, with a bit of thought, proceed logically to more or less the appropriate location.

The final clue unfortunately didn't allow this, but the rest were good.

 

Yeah absolutely. What he said. I was just messing with y'all. What do you think I am, some sort of impulsive idiot with a bow?

 

I NEVER run around aimlessly.

 

In fact, I was never running around MORE decisively, logically and orderly than Legion, Mr. Spock and Predator put together.

 

Like, totally. *smiles desperately, loosens collar, clears throat*