542 réponses à ce sujet

[Saphiron123]

Seriously, bioware, don't dumb stuff down for us. Everyone here feels this way.

We love your products, we love your stories, your games are NOT too hard to learn even for beginners. People are capable, and in part thanks to EA's recent statements the general consensus here is that EA thinks we're all drooling morons who can't handle the most basic of things.

We can handle multiple denominations of money, and we're smart enough to be REALLY confused when we're told that our leader only deals in gold and pays a 10,000x markup on elfroot. We would fire that guy from office, because he's a bad governor.

We're smart enough to deal with tactics, god we miss those. 10 years ago I could set my party up to cast what I need when I need it, and to use their skills in smart ways to control the battlefield. Now, I can't even get solas to stop casting barrier 30 seconds before a fight unless i turn it off and control him exclusively. The number one cause of death for varrick is him using his jumping backlfip attack at the start of a fight and having no escape when he's in trouble.

We're smart enough to use attribute points, auto-leveling is a great option, you can even make it the default, but it feels so impersonal that we can't build our guys and it makes all stat related gear seem totally unimportant... I couldn't tell you what my inquisitor's stats are, because it's done by default. In origins, stat gear mattered, now we don't care.

We're smart enough to build characters with attribute points to use the weapons we want to use, the whole level locked weapons thing really sucks, once again the power is out of our hands and our build is less personal then ever before. I mean there were games of DAO where I found something great, and I'd work towards learning to use it... not anymore.

We can handle the complex enemies you've given us in the past. I mean mages, they used to have unique faces, unique spell lists, and they used to dominate the battlefield Fireball or chain lighting or horror could do a lot of damage to us, and now its just barrier and fire mine and frost mine and truthfully, they're no more a threat then any basic animal... which is a letdown, because this is a game about a world where mages ruled over man and people fought back, where Qunari stitch mages' mouths and treat them like beasts because they're that fearsome. Where mages turn into demons and a whole sect of knights exists just to keep them in line.

Not many mages in DAi are actually fearsome, not even our own... I understand the desire for multiplayer balance, but Wynne or morrigan could wipe the inquisitor's entire party with ease. We can handle powerful enemies, mages and dragons alike, so don't hold back or simplify the enemies. Tactics and tactical enemies go hand in hand.

Don't underestimate your audience is what we're saying, you have GREAT systems in your past games, and multiple difficulties, don't take all your best ideas out because you fear we can't understand them.

And respect our time, you're the company who once had a blacksmith in Ostagar make fun of the warden when he offered to find a an elf carrying a minor item he needed and say "I'm sure you have better things to do. I can find her myself". You guys used to make quips about fetch quests, and instead you gave us amazing, cinematic side quests with unique dialogue that demanded to be replayed again and again. That's why we love what you do, and I think everyone here hopes you don't forget what you are because the core story of DAI is great... those fetch quests though, like find 50 copies of Varrick's book (and achievement that doesn't include any story payoff, by the way) isn't fun.

Most of all, give us tough decisions. I'm talking the kind that only bioware gives you where you put down your controller and walk away to think about it. It's what makes you unique, and while there were some, most like the male desire demon weren't even tempting enough to debate about... they were, for lack of a better word, easy.

And on a personal note, I miss the visceral combat, conversations just aren't the same without being splattered in the blood of the fifty men I just put down. That was a uniquely dragon age feature, and it's something I miss. I wish I could toggle it. Not related to dumbed down, but maybe an attempt to be a little too PC. The gritty style of dragon age has always been fun and unique to me, and I think most of my comments above boil down to wanting dragon age to stay true to dragon age.

And to the rest of the board I say, if there's something you feel similar about, that's been made so easy it's no longer interesting or that there might be a question as to whether we can understand or handle it, speak up below. Keep it constructive, but say what you think.

[coldflame]

 

EA thinks we're all drooling morons who can't handle the most basic of things.
 

 

That's basically what all mega corporations think of their customers nowadys....

[the Dame]

Personally, I would refrain from generalization, but overall I agree with you, Saphiron.

 

After DA/Mass Effects games I started WL2 and spend ~ 4 hours only to create my party. Yes, it was exhausting at first, but it was amazing and rewarding experience.

[Saphiron123]

Personally, I would refrain from generalization, but overall I agree with you, Saphiron.

 

After DA/Mass Effects games I started WL2 and spend ~ 4 hours only to create my party. Yes, it was exhausting at first, but it was amazing and rewarding experience.

I'm sure some of it wasn't actually trying to dumb it down, but I think most people feel that way about at least one or more element... so here they are, all neatly bunched into one topic.

[AiCola]

I personally think it is ok to "dumb down" stuff in SOME areas.

But you should only do it if you  therefore improve or expand OTHER areas.

The biggest problem though is that STORY AND DECISIONS SHOULD NEVER BE CUT, sadly this is what they did.
They removed the meaningful quests and replaced them with a single player MMO game.

I don't think it's too bad to remove attribute points for example, since you usually just go for min/max at the end of the day anyways.

But when you do that you should make an interesting combat system that allows for many tactical moves, like the detonations, immunity/weakness, etc.

That stuff is in the game but i feel like it is not complex enough.

you don't really have to go for combos or anything , in the end you can just faceroll all the way.

[the Dame]

I'm sure some of it wasn't actually trying to dumb it down, but I think most people feel that way about at least one or more element... so here they are, all neatly bunched into one topic.

 

 

Yes, you did quite a work  

And yes once again, it really seems that "dumbing down" wasn't goal + new engine and stuff.. 

But... I miss a chance to ''screw up" character build and non-combat skills is a must for me in RPGs.

I'm a masochistic old-school gamer.

[Wbino]

As long as the profits are high and they are winning GOTY awards there is no incentive to make a 'deep" game.

 

A MAJOR PART of the problem is they have no competition in the big budget RPGish gaming scene.

[Fade-Touched-in-the-head]

I'm sorry, I couldn't understand the topic title. What's this thread about?

[Wbino]

I'm sorry, I couldn't understand the topic title. What's this thread about?

Target audience

[Saphiron123]

I'm sorry, I couldn't understand the topic title. What's this thread about?

It's rare that sarcasm carries in text, I approve.

[NathanPhoenix1]

 

And respect our time, you're the company who once had a blacksmith in Ostagar make fun of the warden when he offered to find a an elf carrying a minor item he needed and say "I'm sure you have better things to do. I can find her myself". You guys used to make quips about fetch quests, and instead you gave us amazing, cinematic side quests with unique dialogue that demanded to be replayed again and again. That's why we love what you do, and I think everyone here hopes you don't forget what you are because the core story of DAI is great... those fetch quests though, like find 50 copies of Varrick's book (and achievement that doesn't include any story payoff, by the way) isn't fun.

 

Most of all, give us tough decisions. I'm talking the kind that only bioware gives you where you put down your controller and walk away to think about it. It's what makes you unique, and while there were some, most like the male desire demon weren't even tempting enough to debate about... they were, for lack of a better word, easy.

 

this this and this some more

[Archerwarden]

And I miss the slow motion finishing scene when you kill the dragon or ogre. You know the one where you get to jump on the dragons head/neck and slam the sword in?
Watching Alistair was a blast too.

[Heathen Oxman]

I'm sorry......

 

But I don't see how DAO or DA2 were particularly "complex."

[Eelectrica]

Will no one think of the children CoD fanboys?

[R0vena]

I'm sorry......

 

But I don't see how DAO or DA2 were particularly "complex."

They weren't.

Fight-wise, once you knew how mechanics work it was a cakewalk on any difficultly.

 

That said, I really miss Tactics of DA 2 or even DAO (especially modded).

[Elhanan]

Sorry; converting to gold, and DAI in general is not 'Dumbing Down' the series, IMO.

[Nethalf]

"We all" is unacceptable here. I didn't give you, OP, the right to speak for me.

[Rawgrim]

Gamers were saying the same thing when DA2 came out. That one was dumbed down too. Seems they took it way further with DA:I, though. I think when DA4 comes out, the options during level up will be gone. You just get a set ability each level, like in Diablo 3.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Bioware is a fully fledged AAA developer under EA now. They will only make games that cater to the lowest, to the most mundane, to the most mediocre among us gamers because that is the largest group out there and because they want profit$. 

 

The only real solution for this is to vote with our wallets. Never buy their games full price.Spend your money on complex deep games that usually comes from AAA side of the industry. 

 

But alas, I am aware that I am speaking mostly to the Instant Gratification Generation who couldn't care less about dumbing down as long as they get their instant gratifications of half arsed products. 

[KaiserShep]

I can't recall any decision in any DA game that made me sit back and really think for a moment which I should pick.

 

Other than eye color in the CC I guess.

[Saphiron123]

Well Kaisershep, based on your name let's replace dragon age with mass effect. I'm sure at least once you paused to choose your course of action?

The geth programming? Whether to cure the genophage?

My point is, bioware has the power to make us make the really tough choices. It shouldn't always be simple, DAI has some great story moments, but they're outnumbered by the fluff - mindless tasks, repetitive gathering, easy choices and combat and characters I have less control over then ever before.

While other games are getting more complex in story and mechanics, dragon age seems to be getting easier... No, not easier, more basic.

I mean dragon age had tactics 10 years ago, it also had auto levelling for more casual players who were happier not getting too complicated; but auto levelling was a choice, and using tactics was a choice, and those of us who wanted more depth could have it. That choice is gone.

Now they assume it's too much for the average player. No, that isn't fair, EA feels that way, I'm not looking to insult bioware by suggesting they've forgotten their core fans. Maybe they have, but I will give them the benefit of a doubt, and hope they are listening.

[Farangbaa]

People really gotta take off those rose coloured glasses when looking back at DA:O.

[KaiserShep]

The only thing I miss about the old system was the ability to wear whatever we wanted based on the attributes, rather than level restrictions, which is the tool of the devil. Like, if I have some armor I really like, I shouldn't have to wait until level 15 or some nonsense in order to wear it, when I could just have the attributes determine whether or not I can equip it (when applicable, like heavy armor).

 

As for tactics, this is a bit tricky as a PS3 user, since the companion AI was not the best, and I could not control them during battle. Most of the time, I found myself fiddling with the companions' tactics display to make them stop doing something that I found really annoying or looked really dumb, like Leliana's bard passives that make everyone look like they're trapped in Prince's aura. In Awakening it was even worse, because apparently, Mhairi and Justice had seismic flatulence that sounded off on a regular basis.

[Rawgrim]

I can't recall any decision in any DA game that made me sit back and really think for a moment which I should pick.

 

Other than eye color in the CC I guess.

 

The Dark Ritual one made me think. My character was romancing Leliana etc. So there were some moral issues at work.

[Rawgrim]

The only thing I miss about the old system was the ability to wear whatever we wanted based on the attributes, rather than level restrictions, which is the tool of the devil. Like, if I have some armor I really like, I shouldn't have to wait until level 15 or some nonsense in order to wear it, when I could just have the attributes determine whether or not I can equip it (when applicable, like heavy armor).

 

Attributes makes way more sense. I think. Not being able to wear a hat untill you have killed 250 more orcs, makes zero sense.