542 réponses à ce sujet

[200Down]

 Bioware is arguably (or was) the best rpg maker out there. There should be absolutely no need to borrow ideas from other games.

This statement I can holeheartedly agree with though. I think they need to sit back and take a look at other games that they made that where succesfull and do what they do best. The talent is most certainly there it just seems to have been squandered on this game. Hell maybe they lost alot of people? I have no clue because I don't keep up with staff changes or even care to.

[Dinerenblanc]

This statement I can holeheartedly agree with though. I think they need to sit back and take a look at other games that they made that where succesfull and do what they do best. The talent is most certainly there it just seems to have been squandered on this game. Hell maybe they lost alot of people? I have no clue because I don't keep up with staff changes or even care to.

You can't make a better game by actively ignoring the mechanics of better games. Take them into consideration and improve upon them if it fits the game you're trying to make. It's how civilization made its way to today. Remember, there's no such thing as an original idea. 

[200Down]

AK-47 says "get your act together MEATBAGS!" <---easily one of my favorite charracters in any BW game. I mean come on.. he acts like rabbid dog you have to keep on a leesh during conversations or he could litterally start a fight without your guidance. More interesting charracters like this please. And because Liliana isn't an actual party member, the little guidance you have just feels hamfisted and thrown in for no real reason?

[200Down]

You can't make a better game by actively ignoring the mechanics of better games. Take them into consideration and improve upon them if it fits the game you're trying to make. It's how civilization made its way to today. Remember, there's no such thing as an original idea. 

Well that kinda goes without saying doesn't it? Unless of course they never play any other game besides their own, there's gonna be some things that rub off I'm sure. And there's no such thing as an original idea? I truely hope you didn't think about that before typing it because games would never evolve

[Dinerenblanc]

Well that kinda goes without saying doesn't it? Unless of course they never play any other game besides their own, there's gonna be some things that rub off I'm sure. And there's no such thing as an original idea? I truely hope you didn't think about that before typing it because games would never evolve

 

“There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope. We give them a turn and they make new and curious combinations. We keep on turning and making new combinations indefinitely; but they are the same old pieces of colored glass that have been in use through all the ages.”

- Mark Twain

[Rawgrim]

This statement I can holeheartedly agree with though. I think they need to sit back and take a look at other games that they made that where succesfull and do what they do best. The talent is most certainly there it just seems to have been squandered on this game. Hell maybe they lost alot of people? I have no clue because I don't keep up with staff changes or even care to.

 

The people who made those games have left EA\Bioware now. Creative differences. Not sure what is left anymore, but some parts of DA:I speaks volumes.

[Rawgrim]

Uh no, Inquisition has more similarities with the Mass Effect series than Skyrim or any of the other games you've mentioned. DA: I is a Bioware game through and through.

 

And yet the Devs said they were heavily influenced by Skyrim when they made the game. To be honest, I don't see much of Skyrim in there either. Maybe the crafting system?

[Rawgrim]

There have only been two prior DA games; both set in very different settings. It would be difficult to state what exactly is the flavor of the DA series, but my guess is that one game is preferred over the other when defining it.

The only game on that list I have played is Skyrim, and of course all the previous DA games. And while I see a larger world in which to explore, I still experience the short and long term goals driven by a story. Some may not see the various links granted to the Players via content, but they do appear to be there.

Personally, I enjoy the story, and the huge amt of content and space with which to play.

 

Dark, gritty, mature, and with player control over the character.

 

DA:I looks like a generic PG-13 teen fantasy movie Hollywood has dished out. All flash and no substance.

[200Down]

“There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope. We give them a turn and they make new and curious combinations. We keep on turning and making new combinations indefinitely; but they are the same old pieces of colored glass that have been in use through all the ages.”

- Mark Twain

lolz quote dead authors all you want. But I don't think that saying gives the human mind nearly enough credit. Besides Clemens was part author and comedian. That should tell you something.

 

Edit: And yes I do see what you're saying and it is party true I guess. But honestly nobody forces game devs to use by the book mechanics. It's there choice. Remember black and white? remember populous? there's a whole host of games out there that produce new genres. It's all gotta start somewhere.

[200Down]

The people who made those games have left EA\Bioware now. Creative differences. Not sure what is left anymore, but some parts of DA:I speaks volumes.

Well then that just sucks.... So maybe the talent really isn't there anymore? Sad to hear.

[Lilithor]

We have the 7 Dragon Ball, Shenlong appears...
- What do you want, world peace?
- No, Shenlong please make Rawgrim the supreme ruler over Bioware, the creative director of everything with superpowers to control the dudes with the money

[Archerwarden]

The company wants to be more inclusive,  as in to attract people who play (different) games for different reasons, and that is very reasonable because it means more money for them, their survivability depends on this. The fact that they are not entirely succeeding while trying to make the game intuitive and inclusive does not speaks against them at all, the only thing they can do is to keep trying.

Attracting more customers, making a profit is a given for any company. There are many ways to that- that is also a given. There are ways to attract new customers and at the same time not alienate those customers like myself from the first product and/or the second.

When you already have an established title and customer base why in the world would you want to eliminate most of the fundamental elements of that series in order to attract those 1st time RPG users and 20 million Skyrim users?

Without those customers from the 1st game there would not be a 2nd or third product. Why would you not continue making that MMO for those new customers and then make the 3rd in the DA series keeping those elements that made that DAO and customers such as myself come to expect.

In DAI they sacrificed the developed combat tactic systems, the inventory, system, the currency, roleplaying elements which enabled the player to complete a quest in different ways - choices. And they sacrificed that which made DAO great to attract an audience that wanted to mash a button, collect herbs and look at pretty scenery.

[Archerwarden]

It's not really an rpg though is it? I mean hell, we don't even get to allocate our own stat points. Tactics are gone too. We basically customize our own gear like in call of duty.

Yes, just look at the pc inventory screen where the box covers the stats.

Its not a rpg its an SP MMO action game. The action game part they missed the mark on that too.

Gosh, I played the game completely ignoring my companions. Put them on follow themselves and ignored them. Might as well have solo played. And I killed the dragons twice in 1 playthrough that way (dragons glitched) - If a companion died I used the revive and Viviennes KE skill that's it. No tactics used at all just hack and slash and no need to pause and look over the field. It was not fun.

[Jeffry]

The point is that maybe Bioware made the determination that more players care about the interactive narrative than they do about old school RPG gameplay, hence why they have no problem removing it. 

 

And they somehow managed to botch both. I could easily live with more streamlined gameplay if the overall game would be better as well, like in the case of ME2. But I have a problem with the fact that both the gameplay and story are worse than in previous games and certainly worse than what BW are capable of. Again, to avoid any confusion, I am not saying people can't still enjoy the game and its story, but the fact remains the story is both shorter than it used to be, without any sense of threat or urgency and the villain is really not that interesting like for example Arishok or Loghain were. And about the gameplay, I wouldn't mind if there was an option to play the game like an action RPG, but what I do mind is when basic elements from DAO and DA2 combat are taken away for no discernible reason and I am forced to play the game like an action RPG (despite being promised it will be just like DAO).

 

 

I'm not really clear why people keep calling DAI an action game, though. I wasn't clear about that with DA2 either.

 

DA2 is not an action game, stats matter more than reflexes, you are not required to manually attack with your character and you can't dodge projectiles unless you run around a corner. DAI is somewhere in the middle, it even seems like BW/EA are not sure what they wanted the game to be. You can read it is both RPG and action adventure on their official site. In reality it is closer to an action RPG than to any other genre / sub-genre.

 

 

The company wants to be more inclusive,  as in to attract people who play (different) games for different reasons, and that is very reasonable because it means more money for them, their survivability depends on this. The fact that they are not entirely succeeding while trying to make the game intuitive and inclusive does not speaks against them at all, the only thing they can do is to keep trying.

 

Their survivability does not really depend on this, we are talking about EA here, you know, the megacorporation that owns more developers and releases more games than any other publisher out there. It means more money for EA, since that is the only thing they care about. I know, it is just business and the highest possible revenue is the goal for all the companies in the world, but it for sure can be done differently, look at CD Projekt for example - TW2 was easy to learn, yet you didn't get the feeling the game is dumbed down or that you are being treated like a moron with extremely short attention span who can't be bothered to spend few extra minutes learning the game's mechanics.

 

 

Uh no, Inquisition has more similarities with the Mass Effect series than Skyrim or any of the other games you've mentioned. DA: I is a Bioware game through and through.

 

The only similarity with Mass Effect is the dialogue system which was already in DA2. On the other hand, BW borrowed from Skyrim the open world element, among other things. BW even acknowledged they were influenced by Skyrim's success to the point they couldn't ignore it. The question is if they really wanted that themselves or they were forced to by EA. The game looked even more like Skyrim in the earlier demos, look at the top centre portion of this video https://www.youtube....bGgGdyqkI#t=165 (2:45 if youtube doesn't jump there automatically). The bar looks awfully familiar...

[Archerwarden]

And yet the Devs said they were heavily influenced by Skyrim when they made the game. To be honest, I don't see much of Skyrim in there either. Maybe the crafting system?

The massive world is there. They tried with the quests to make it similar but I think they didn't have enough time to fill in the rest of game. Just look at the amount of quests in The Hinterlands compared to the Western Approach, Fallowmire and The Hissing Wastes.
Its not nearly as well done as Skyrim doesn't mean they weren't trying to make it like Skyrim.

[AlanC9]

The people who made those games have left EA\Bioware now. Creative differences. Not sure what is left anymore, but some parts of DA:I speaks volumes.

If you're not sure what's left, how are you sure about what's gone?

[Dinerenblanc]

Attracting more customers, making a profit is a given for any company. There are many ways to that- that is also a given. There are ways to attract new customers and at the same time not alienate those customers like myself from the first product and/or the second.

When you already have an established title and customer base why in the world would you want to eliminate most of the fundamental elements of that series in order to attract those 1st time RPG users and 20 million Skyrim users?

Without those customers from the 1st game there would not be a 2nd or third product. Why would you not continue making that MMO for those new customers and then make the 3rd in the DA series keeping those elements that made that DAO and customers such as myself come to expect.

In DAI they sacrificed the developed combat tactic systems, the inventory, system, the currency, roleplaying elements which enabled the player to complete a quest in different ways - choices. And they sacrificed that which made DAO great to attract an audience that wanted to mash a button, collect herbs and look at pretty scenery.

Ah, another entitled customer. Listen buddy, Bioware does not owe their customers a debt. They do not owe their success to you. They succeeded because they made a great game, you only bought it and played it. If the games they're currently making does not suit your fancy, don't buy it. Don't act like they owe you a favor. As for why they would eliminate what you perceive as fundamental elements, because those elements are not attracting enough people. I hate to break it you, but that's just how businesses work. There are plenty of other options out there.

[ThreeF]

When you already have an established title and customer base why in the world would you want to eliminate most of the fundamental elements of that series in order to attract those 1st time RPG users and 20 million Skyrim users?

Because that established customer base will always shrink no  matter what, people lose interest, get older, get new priorities etc. Not to mention that "fundamental element" is something very subjective to begin with. And you can't really be serious when you are asking me why one would want 20 million more customers.

 

 

Without those customers from the 1st game there would not be a 2nd or third product. Why would you not continue making that MMO for those new customers and then make the 3rd in the DA series keeping those elements that made that DAO and customers such as myself come to expect.

 

Because resources are not unlimited, because it is difficult to get new IP running, because "reasons".

 

 

Their survivability does not really depend on this, we are talking about EA here, you know, the megacorporation that owns more developers and releases more games than any other publisher out there. It means more money for EA, since that is the only thing they care about. I know, it is just business and the highest possible revenue is the goal for all the companies in the world, but it for sure can be done differently, look at CD Projekt for example - TW2 was easy to learn, yet you didn't get the feeling the game is dumbed down or that you are being treated as a moron who can't be bothered to spend few extra minutes learning the game's mechanics.

You are saying this as if EA is made of money and/or is a charity. And what does CD Project has anything to do with this? They choose to do things one way BW choose to do it another, some things work,  some don't. The fact that you think that CD Project does things right, doesn't stops me and many others from not playing their games for variety of reasons, it's not like they discovered some sort of ultimate formula or something.

[Archerwarden]

Ah, another entitled customer. Listen buddy, Bioware does not owe their customers a debt. They do not owe their success to you. They succeeded because they made a great game, you only bought it and played it. If the games they're currently making does not suit your fancy, don't buy it. Don't act like they owe you a favor. As for why they would eliminate what you perceive as fundamental elements, because those elements are not attracting enough people. I hate to break it you, but that's just how businesses work. There are plenty of other options out there.

This is the feedback section of a forum that the developers created. The developers expect feedback, negative, positive. Just the same as if you bought a product from a store and that product was less than satisfactory, I would contact that manufacturer. Same here.
The difference here is the forum.

I disagree that DAI is evolved. That's my point. I respect your opinion and everyone else here who posts. All opinions should be valid.

You do not need to be insulting and condescending.

[Dinerenblanc]

And they somehow managed to botch both. I could easily live with more streamlined gameplay if the overall game would be better as well, like in the case of ME2. But I have a problem with the fact that both the gameplay and story are worse than in previous games and certainly worse than what BW are capable of. Again, to avoid any confusion, I am not saying people can't still enjoy the game and its story, but the fact remains the story is both shorter than it used to be, without any sense of threat or urgency and the villain is really not that interesting like for example Arishok or Loghain were. And about the gameplay, I wouldn't mind if there was an option to play the game like an action RPG, but what I do mind is when basic elements from DAO and DA2 combat are taken away for no discernible reason and I am forced to play the game like an action RPG (despite being promised it will be just like DAO).



DA2 is not an action game, stats matter more than reflexes, you are not required to manually attack with your character and you can't dodge projectiles unless you run around a corner. DAI is somewhere in the middle, it even seems like BW/EA are not sure what they wanted the game to be. You can read it is both RPG and action adventure on their official site. In reality it is closer to an action RPG than to any other genre / sub-genre.



Their survivability does not really depend on this, we are talking about EA here, you know, the megacorporation that owns more developers and releases more games than any other publisher out there. It means more money for EA, since that is the only thing they care about. I know, it is just business and the highest possible revenue is the goal for all the companies in the world, but it for sure can be done differently, look at CD Projekt for example - TW2 was easy to learn, yet you didn't get the feeling the game is dumbed down or that you are being treated like a moron with extremely short attention span who can't be bothered to spend few extra minutes learning the game's mechanics.



The only similarity with Mass Effect is the dialogue system which was already in DA2. On the other hand, BW borrowed from Skyrim the open world element, among other things. BW even acknowledged they were influenced by Skyrim's success to the point they couldn't ignore it. The question is if they really wanted that themselves or they were forced to by EA. The game looked even more like Skyrim in the earlier demos, look at the top centre portion of this video https://www.youtube....bGgGdyqkI#t=165 (2:45 if youtube doesn't jump there automatically). The bar looks awfully familiar...

Just the dialogue system? Some people's selective memory can be especially pungent it seems. What of the companion system? What of the skill trees? What of the weapon modification system? What of the use of a hub world? I can go on.

[Jeffry]

Ah, another entitled customer. Listen buddy, Bioware does not owe their customers a debt. They do not owe their success to you. They succeeded because they made a great game, you only bought it and played it. If the games they're currently making does not suit your fancy, don't buy it. Don't act like they owe you a favor. As for why they would eliminate what you perceive as fundamental elements, because those elements are not attracting enough people. I hate to break it you, but that's just how businesses work. There are plenty of other options out there.

 

BW owes their succes to people who bought BG1 and BG2 and continued to support them over all those years. Not to people who were attracted just by DAI.

 

 

You are saying this as if EA is made of money and/or is a charity. And what does CD Project has anything to do with this? They choose to do things one way BW choose to do it another, some things work,  some don't. The fact that you think that CD Project does things right, doesn't stops me and many others from not playing their games for variety of reasons, it's not like they discovered some sort of ultimate formula or something.

 

I don't know where you are getting the charity thing, I even said this is business like any other. And you misunderstood me about CD Projekt a bit, I wasn't praising their games per se, I was praising their business model and the way they treat their fans and custumers. They are ofc doing it for the money as well, but it for sure feels better to be treated well along the way.

[Archerwarden]

Because that established customer base will always shrink no  matter what, people lose interest, get older, get new priorities etc. Not to mention that "fundamental element" is something very subjective to begin with. And you can't really be serious when you are asking me why one would want 20 million more customers.

No I am saying that they did not need to make a Dragon Age game in order to attract those 20 mill Skyrim players and 1st time RPG users.
If you make a good product people will buy. If you change that product so drastically, you will lose people. Will you attract people yes and no - depends. All products whether good or not come and go that is a given too.

[Jeffry]

Just the dialogue system? Some people's selective memory can be especially pungent it seems. What of the companion system? What of the skill trees? What of the weapon modification system? What of the use of a hub world? I can go on.

 

Companion system? You mean the one that has been present in BW games ever since BG1? Skill trees? Yeah, I am sure ME was the game to bring them to light. Hub world? Because there was no hub in BG2, KotOR, DAO for example. I can go on as well, so bring it The weapon modification system, well, DAO and DA2 had runes, that could even be removed and there are really tons of games that allowed weapon modification besides ME, you know like basically every modern FPS game among others.

[Dinerenblanc]

BW owes their succes to people who bought BG1 and BG2 and continued to support them over all those years. Not to people who were attracted just by DAI.



I don't know where you are getting the charity thing, I even said this is business like any other. And you misunderstood me about CD Projekt a bit, I wasn't praising their games per se, I was praising their business model and the way they treat their fans and costumers. They are ofc doing it for the money as well, but it for sure feels better to be treated well along the way.

How exactly are they treating you better?

[ThreeF]

I don't know where you are getting the charity thing, I even said this is business like any other. And you misunderstood me about CD Projekt a bit, I wasn't praising their games per se, I was praising their business model and the way they treat their fans and costumers. They are ofc doing it for the money as well, but it for sure feels better to be treated well along the way.

They are just the same as any company, you are just feeling better with how their appear to go about it and happen to like what they put in their games, that's all.

 

I see that people seem to develop loyalties and then get annoyed when their expectations are not met. I've never been like this, as long as I'm enjoying the game I'm fine with the game, if I don't enjoy it, I'm the only one to be "blamed" for buying it, I have no idea who made more than half of the games I've played, I don't care.

 

No I am saying that they did not need to make a Dragon Age game in order to attract those 20 mill Skyrim players and 1st time RPG users.
If you make a good product people will buy. If you change that product so drastically, you will lose people. Will you attract people yes and no - depends. All products whether good or not come and go that is a given too.

And you think BW set out to make a "bad" product? Sometimes losing people worth it, it's a gamble, you will lose people no matter what.