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After reading most of the threads on this board, here's what we all seem to want to say: Don't dumb stuff down for us.


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#151
Saphiron123

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I see custom tactics as an element of the combat. My tactics don't work, I pause the combat, open up tactics, edit as I think will work. Try it out, maybe die, maybe win, depends a lot on the tactics I employ, hence they are part of my combat. Maybe not yours, but mine. Sorta like playing a tactical game, which I find Origins and DA2 to be even when playing in the third person view.

 

The options in Inquisition are practically non-existant compared to this.

tactics.jpg

 

Regarding AI, yes I agree sometimes they do marvelous things. Doesn't help me though when I keep getting pummeled by Iron Bull's Mighty Blow, shocked by Solas' Chain Lightning or burned by Vivienne's Immolate :pinched:  Turn friendly fire off? I didn't have to do this in Origins and DA2 since I could help the AI with the custom tactics. In Inquisition? Not so much  <_<

If there's one thing DA2 did well, it was the tactics... it might have been smaller in scope, but if it hadn't been for the recycled maps and waves of enemies (which got pretty tedious) it would have had a far better release.

 

I don't think you do.

 

In Origins I set up Morrigan to only cast fireball vs. 4 clustered enemies. If we're getting surrounded during combat I edit Morrigan's tactics and disable Fireball for the remainder of the fight, otherwise she'll fry my party. This is pause no. 2 during the fight, and prob. the only editing I do in custom tactics while engaging these enemies.

Pause no. 1 would be enemy spotted, usually the most important pause where I position myself and hand out the first manual orders.

For the rest of the combat I pause about 5-10 times to give manual orders, and when not paused I control my mage who has a 40 slot quickbar which means I'm having a blast as a mage :wizard:

 

In DAI there is no fireball. There is no WHEN a spell should be cast, and there is no 40 slot quickbar <_<

Yes dai nerfed our spell selection, but i still disagree. Consider barrier... I see my enemy, I charge with my inquisitor and my other warrior follow, Solas casts barrier as soon as I spot him, and when I actually connect with bull rush I have maybe 10% barrier left, so i'm taking damage that one tactic command would have prevented entirely. That's using my charge ability to cover more ground, without it, pretty sure Solas is going to waste the first barrier in every battle.

Another example, why can't i program a templar character to use spell purge on stunned enemies to trigger a combo? if i'm not in control, i can't do that. They will not cast it if the enemy doesn't have a barrier.

In origins or da2 a 1/2 punch like that was the most basic ai command there was. I can program wynne to cast petrify and follow up with stone fist if i like, and never to use stone fist UNLESS the enemy is petrified. 

This was 10 years ago. 

Or Varrick, in Da2 he was a really useful ally. He had great skills you could get him to automatically use when his health got low... now he has one of the best escapes he ever had, the backflip attack that gets him out of harm's way when he's being attacked. Except, you can't tell him to do that. He wastes it seconds into every fight, and when he's in danger, he never has it available if you swap characters for even a few seconds.

So he never gets to use it.

And ranged attacks, I can program my characters in DAO and DA2 to use their spells when an enemy is a certain range... long for fireballs and area attacks, I can have them use freeze or paralyze spells when an enemy gets too close or attacks them with melee. Varrick's flip ability is like a shotgun, it spreads out or misses entirely if he's far away... guess what range he uses it at? Pretty much as far away as solas is casting barrier on me.

No matter how you look at it, it's a huge step back.

When is VERY important in DAI at higher difficulties, and they've had the ability to let us choose when for 10 years.


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#152
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If there's one thing DA2 did well, it was the tactics... it might have been smaller in scope, but if it hadn't been for the recycled maps and waves of enemies (which got pretty tedious) it would have had a far better release.

 

Yes dai nerfed our spell selection, but i still disagree. Consider barrier... I see my enemy, I charge with my inquisitor and my other warrior follow, Solas casts barrier as soon as I spot him, and when I actually connect with bull rush I have maybe 10% barrier left, so i'm taking damage that one tactic command would have prevented entirely. That's using my charge ability to cover more ground, without it, pretty sure Solas is going to waste the first barrier in every battle.

Another example, why can't i program a templar character to use spell purge on stunned enemies to trigger a combo? if i'm not in control, i can't do that. They will not cast it if the enemy doesn't have a barrier.

In origins or da2 a 1/2 punch like that was the most basic ai command there was. I can program wynne to cast petrify and follow up with stone fist if i like, and never to use stone fist UNLESS the enemy is petrified. 

This was 10 years ago. 

Or Varrick, in Da2 he was a really useful ally. He had great skills you could get him to automatically use when his health got low... now he has one of the best escapes he ever had, the backflip attack that gets him out of harm's way when he's being attacked. Except, you can't tell him to do that. He wastes it seconds into every fight, and when he's in danger, he never has it available if you swap characters for even a few seconds.

So he never gets to use it.

And ranged attacks, I can program my characters in DAO and DA2 to use their spells when an enemy is a certain range... long for fireballs and area attacks, I can have them use freeze or paralyze spells when an enemy gets too close or attacks them with melee. Varrick's flip ability is like a shotgun, it spreads out or misses entirely if he's far away... guess what range he uses it at? Pretty much as far away as solas is casting barrier on me.

No matter how you look at it, it's a huge step back.

When is VERY important in DAI at higher difficulties, and they've had the ability to let us choose when for 10 years.

 

I agree with all of these examples.

 

 

At the same time, it doesn't matter anyways. You can win with simple perseverance (and not falling asleep), no matter the strategy or attack types. The game is easy manually played, outside of boss fights or getting swarmed.


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#153
Saphiron123

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I agree with all of these examples.

 

 

At the same time, it doesn't matter anyways. You can win with simple perseverance (and not falling asleep), no matter the strategy or attack types. The game is easy manually played, outside of boss fights or getting swarmed.

It matters if you play at the highest difficulties... it's no fun if it's easy.

Sadly turning on friendly fire isn't an option, the party is too stupid to survive it.



#154
Hexoduen

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...

 

Yes dai nerfed our spell selection, but i still disagree. Consider barrier... I see my enemy, I charge with my inquisitor and my other warrior follow, Solas casts barrier as soon as I spot him, and when I actually connect with bull rush I have maybe 10% barrier left, so i'm taking damage that one tactic command would have prevented entirely. That's using my charge ability to cover more ground, without it, pretty sure Solas is going to waste the first barrier in every battle.

Another example, why can't i program a templar character to use spell purge on stunned enemies to trigger a combo? if i'm not in control, i can't do that. They will not cast it if the enemy doesn't have a barrier.

In origins or da2 a 1/2 punch like that was the most basic ai command there was. I can program wynne to cast petrify and follow up with stone fist if i like, and never to use stone fist UNLESS the enemy is petrified. 

This was 10 years ago. 

Or Varrick, in Da2 he was a really useful ally. He had great skills you could get him to automatically use when his health got low... now he has one of the best escapes he ever had, the backflip attack that gets him out of harm's way when he's being attacked. Except, you can't tell him to do that. He wastes it seconds into every fight, and when he's in danger, he never has it available if you swap characters for even a few seconds.

So he never gets to use it.

And ranged attacks, I can program my characters in DAO and DA2 to use their spells when an enemy is a certain range... long for fireballs and area attacks, I can have them use freeze or paralyze spells when an enemy gets too close or attacks them with melee. Varrick's flip ability is like a shotgun, it spreads out or misses entirely if he's far away... guess what range he uses it at? Pretty much as far away as solas is casting barrier on me.

No matter how you look at it, it's a huge step back.

When is VERY important in DAI at higher difficulties, and they've had the ability to let us choose when for 10 years.

 

I'm writing about custom tactics in an answer to AlanC9. The WHEN I mentioned has to do with for instance setting up custom tactics of when "Self: Surrounded by at least three enemies -> Whirlwind". This is not possible in DAI :(



#155
Saphiron123

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I'm writing about custom tactics in an answer to AlanC9. The WHEN I mentioned has to do with for instance setting up custom tactics of when "Self: Surrounded by at least three enemies -> Whirlwind". This is not possible in DAI :(

Ah gotcha. No, I agree totally.

It was such a great system, most of the stuff they took out was.


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#156
Gileadan

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You mean the banter bug that doesn't exist?

I also can't tell if you're talking about DAO or another game with the rest of this post, because both of your other complaints apply to it as well.

Then I wonder which feature that doesn't count as a bug makes my party so silent as if they were attending a frigging funeral. I keep mixing them up. I haven't exhausted their banters, far from it. It just doesn't happen.
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#157
ThreeF

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Then I wonder which feature that doesn't count as a bug makes my party so silent as if they were attending a frigging funeral. I keep mixing them up. I haven't exhausted their banters, far from it. It just doesn't happen.

I find mine to be shy in the beginning if I pick up a new party but! if I keep using them they will eventually become chatty. Not engaging constantly in fighting helps too.



#158
Gileadan

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I find mine to be shy in the beginning if I pick up a new party but! if I keep using them they will eventually become chatty. Not engaging constantly in fighting helps too.

Interesting.

How long was "eventually" for you, roughly. I can go hours with the same team too and still get silence. I'm in Crestwood at the moment...should that place have banter or is it as quiet as the Western Approach?

#159
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I don't think area matters. 

 

I never experienced the bug myself, but I'm on XOne. Isn't it a PC issue?



#160
Gileadan

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Well, on a previous playthrough my banter worked fine except in the Western Approach, so I thought just that map was messed up. Now, two patches later, I'm 60 hours into my 2nd playthrough and had maybe half a dozen banters, mostly during the early game in the Hinterlands.

And yep, playing on PC.

#161
ThreeF

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Interesting.

How long was "eventually" for you, roughly. I can go hours with the same team too and still get silence. I'm in Crestwood at the moment...should that place have banter or is it as quiet as the Western Approach?

Hmm....it varies, depends what you are doing I think. For me the Stormy Coast tends to be the most silent one. I remember having a Dorian, Cassandra, Sera party for hours before I got the first banter from them, took them to various places and it finally happened at Hissing Wastes, after that they started to talk. Same thing with Cassandra and Blackwall, had to take them to Hinterlands post mage/templar plot point, this made me think that perhaps some quiet time is needed and that fighting interrupts something.

 

I have no idea what frequency is normal, I'm judging by how it feels in the game for me.


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#162
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It seems random for me when it triggers.. and does so at a good pace.. and works in any main hub. I didn't find the Storm Coast silent. Seemed to get Sera and Blackwall making jokes, then Varric bugging Blackwall.. all the same playthrough recently.


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#163
Gileadan

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Thanks for your replies, guys, I'll keep this in mind next time I play. I really shouldn't derail this any further. :)

#164
Farangbaa

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Banter works really simple after the update: it's likely to trigger every 15 minutes, provided you stay in the same area. If you do a quest or two in one area, then travel to Skyhold or another area very quickly, you're not likely to hear anything.
 

While that might be true, the caliber of the actual content seems far poorer and aimed at the lowest common denominator more these days..
Its great to have 7 options but when 5 of them are just trash talking and pointless, is more dialog really better?
 
Not to mention horrible bugs like the "banter bug" that is still around for many people today..

 
Did you even read what I said? The 7 options of which 5 were investigate options were in DA:O, not in DA:I.
 
So I guess you were trashing DA:O ;)
 
In DA:I you consistently get 3 options, and possibly up to 5 (6? not sure if I seen it...) investigate options.
Oh and then there's the moments you have 5 different options to say + investigate options, which never happens in DA:O.

#165
Archerwarden

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Well, on a previous playthrough my banter worked fine except in the Western Approach, so I thought just that map was messed up. Now, two patches later, I'm 60 hours into my 2nd playthrough and had maybe half a dozen banters, mostly during the early game in the Hinterlands.

And yep, playing on PC.


I've got that too. Before the patches got the banter somewhat. After patches much less with long stretches of silence. Mixing party didn't help either.

Noticed that when I go to the war table and don't select anything it triggers something and I never get banter until I go back in and select. Problem is the timer on the war table is messed and as soon as I walk out the door of war room a message pops up & says Cullen/Leliana/Josephine is ready to report- go back into war room and everyone is still busy. Que no banter.

Yep on pc too.

Working as intended- Bioware says there is no bug. Must be user error. /sarcasm

#166
Rizilliant

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Dont forget, you could save 3 sets of custom tactics, ontop of the premade tactics...



#167
Rizilliant

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Banter works really simple after the update: it's likely to trigger every 15 minutes, provided you stay in the same area. If you do a quest or two in one area, then travel to Skyhold or another area very quickly, you're not likely to hear anything.
 
 
Did you even read what I said? The 7 options of which 5 were investigate options were in DA:O, not in DA:I.
 
So I guess you were trashing DA:O ;)
 
In DA:I you consistently get 3 options, and possibly up to 5 (6? not sure if I seen it...) investigate options.
Oh and then there's the moments you have 5 different options to say + investigate options, which never happens in DA:O.

Those 3 options are always the exact same response.. Just in a different tone.. Caring, sarcasic, or rude..But the same response, nonetheless!In preevious games, you usually got 3 different responses.. In DA2, it was more akin to what we have in DA:I, imo.. But there were still some choices.. There are nonein Inquisition



#168
Jeffry

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For me on PC the banter worked great until patch 3 came out. Then it stopped and I didn't get anything from companions I haven't even used before. 15 mins in one zone did not work for me, or is it supposed to be 15 mins of doing absolutely nothing else than running around, not engaging in fights and stuff? Because that would mean stand in one place the whole time thanks to that brilliant respawn system that summons enemies out of thin air right in your face, or thanks to the bug that puts neutral wild animals into combat with your party even though you did nothing. I am really glad it is working fine for some ppl but for many others it is flat out broken.

#169
Archerwarden

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For me on PC the banter worked great until patch 3 came out. Then it stopped and I didn't get anything from companions I haven't even used before. 15 mins in one zone did not work for me, or is it supposed to be 15 mins of doing absolutely nothing else than running around, not engaging in fights and stuff? Because that would mean stand in one place the whole time thanks to that brilliant respawn system that summons enemies out of thin air right in your face, or thanks to the bug that puts neutral wild animals into combat with your party even though you did nothing. I am really glad it is working fine for some ppl but for many others it is flat out broken.


I know can you imagine? In order to get banter you need to stay away from all the random blue dots running to you, stay away form combat, don't ride the horse, don't talk to any of the cookie cutter quest givers and you will get banter.... maybe.

Such an improvement form DAO and DA2.

Maybe next game will not have any combat at all..

<disgusted noises>
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#170
Elhanan

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I generally hear banter while gathering resources, esp at 'garden' spots; those areas rich with some material. Also in the area close to a camp.

#171
AlanC9

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But I do rarely need to do that, because the game is laughably easy. I'm on Hard, and I rarely need to bother giving orders. And I find Iron Bull really effective (I specced him with all the damage mitigation I could find - the S&B passives are great for 2H warriors).


Yeah, I think this is the actual problem with the design.

#172
Darkly Tranquil

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Maybe next game will not have any combat at all..<disgusted noises>


That will please the people who want a DA Telltale game.

#173
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That will please the people who want a DA Telltale game.

 

That wouldn't be a bad idea actually.. at least as a side project. Like the Tell Tale Borderlands game, for instance.



#174
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It matters if you play at the highest difficulties... it's no fun if it's easy.

Sadly turning on friendly fire isn't an option, the party is too stupid to survive it.

 

Inquisition is partially ... or mostly ... too easy on nightmare difficulty too! Does not matetr too much. If you like to outfit your party with good gear and know how to craft well ... it's cake ... many times!

 

But to me ... no difficulty level is fun withou the refined tactics section "of old" if the supplement is so shallow and as unrefined as Kratos underpants!

 

(Of course this does not go for the Dragons! They rough me up quite good :pinched: ... I have not an ounce of "dragon-blood" in me whatsoever :whistle: )



#175
Gileadan

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I just checked for banter again. Three hours in Crestwood, taking gameplay relatively slow, not a single line. I know it worked before patch 3.

 

Oh look, the new patch isn't out for PC yet either! Why, just another round of good DA:I related news.

 

As far as combat goes, I just action-game it on Hard. Cba with Nightmare and its HP bloat. On Hard I can just mow them down without worrying about my companions and without resorting to the tac cam. It makes for some relaxed gameplay, except when I swear at the screen after pommel strike missed at point blank range again, half a dozen times in a row. :D


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