58 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Once Grimoire is finally released it will put everything else to shame with ITZ level of incline.

 

How many issues left, Cleve?

[Why Yes of Course]

The Walking Dead games are fantastic, the twist in Bioshock was better than anything I can remember on screen and some of the Bioware stuff is far richer and deeper than most movies...really, only long running TV shows (often adapted from a longer running series of novels) tend to offer more here - which is as it should be.

 

It's an interesting discussion though, but you should avoid comparing all games just to your pre-defined list of ageless, legendary classic books and TV shows.

 

If I were, for example, to compare the Mass Effect series Michael Bay's Transformers series, I suspect that most would agree that there are great deal more layers and quality in Bioware's story...and clearly the reverse is true in other cases (nobody plays CoD for the story :3)

[NeonFlux117]

Spec Ops the Line is one of the most compelling and well told narratives I've experienced in recent memory. And something like that Hollywood would never touch because of the sheer amount of cringe worthy support and group think for the US military Industrial Complex and it's "heroes" that currently embodies Hollywood. Material like that would never be green lit in the current "creative" Hollywood film industry. In the 80s and maybe the 90s??? Sure. And definitely the 70s, but now.... No way. You'd have all the mouth breathing "patriots" and gun porn nuts calling you a traitor and not Murican enough... But I digress. 

 

So yes, at times video game writing can be on the level of great works in film and literature.  

 

Now.... For the most part, the writing in video games is B movie material and so utterly cheezy. But there are games written so well and at such a high level that it can literally change your perception of what the medium can be about. 

[Johnnie Walker]

I don't think anything can beat books imo. They give more detail with enough room for your own imagination. Books are also known to sharpen your mind like a blade with a whetstone. That's just me though. To each their own.

[NeonFlux117]

I don't think anything can beat books imo. They give more detail with enough room for your own imagination. Books are also known to sharpen your mind like a blade with a whetstone. That's just me though. To each their own.

 

It's true. Literature is proven to raise ones vocabulary and make critical thinking happen more frequent and faster. Everyone should read everyday. 

 

 

 

Reading truly is......... FUNdamental.......Yeah. I went there. GG. 

[Johnnie Walker]

It's true. Literature is proven to raise ones vocabulary and make critical thinking happen more frequent and faster. Everyone should read everyday. 

 

 

 

Reading truly is......... FUNdamental.......Yeah. I went there. GG. 

 

I'm more amused by this than I should be.

 

 

But I agree on people should read everyday. I read at least some a day tbh, right now working on good old Stephen King.

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

How many issues left, Cleve?

1.010000000000000000 issues remain before the coming of the incline.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

1.010000000000000000 issues remain before the coming of the incline.

 

I want to believe.

[slimgrin]

Your very first sentence is wildly incorrect, and you see this nonsense idea perpetuated by journos. In a game, the narrative can be considered gameplay. They are not at odds in the least.

[DEUGH Man]

Let me put it this way, the difference between ramen being delicious and ramen tasting like ass is the cook and the person in charge of buying the ingredients. 

[Ridwan]

I don't think anything can beat books imo. They give more detail with enough room for your own imagination. Books are also known to sharpen your mind like a blade with a whetstone. That's just me though. To each their own.

Not your opinion, I share the same. Books are the best medium for sharing/reading/telling a story.

[TheChris92]

I don't see why not

[TheChris92]

Well Chris can probably do a better job of describing it but the characters lacked the depth that they had it the game.

Anything remotely endearing about Persona 4's structure was removed Caeserian style, so sloppily, that the directors failed to save the complex-well-developed-characters and coherent moviations nevermind that horrible animation. Kanji & Naoto are the best examples. They were both incredibly awful in the anime, nevermind that atrocious pacing as well, which was only rendered worse in the Golden version but let's just forget about that one. It only got worse at the end too. It's like the director thought "Oh, guess we have to wrap this up quick, guys, let's just slap that whole ending of the game into 20 minutes of tomfoolery". 

[TheChris92]

Go ahead, body the thread with that P3 insight.

Not sure if this post is supposed to be taken as sarcastically smug, but anyway. I wasn't planning to do so. I've already pointed out a few other examples in a different thread regarding good storytelling in games. I don't see much point in humoring this particular OP since he seems hellbent on abandoning discussions as quick as a car crash occuring in a Nascar race.

[TheChris92]

I was looking for that novella you posted for me in the Persona thread.

 

If you find that just copy pasta it.

 

It's great.

 

Not replying because reading it was like training in the hyperbolic time chamber.

 

Still based as f-ck

 

11/10

I'll link it on Steam.

[TheChris92]

Nah, I genuinely want you to post your insight of P3 as it pertains to story and gameplay because your interpretations, while hella lengthy, are awesome. And it's pretty appropriate for this can games have good stories thread. So I figured, might as well ask Chris to ether the whole discussion with his P3 awesomeness.

Ah, okay, cool -- Well, I tend to keep the Persona discussion to a minimum outside of the thread. At least I try to do so. I think I've already written all I can about P3, at least in terms of its mechanics. Anything else will be saved for whenever Chewin beats it since he likes to talk about that kind of stuff.

 

Were I to bring up another example that isn't Persona I'd say either Silent Hill 2 or Metal Gear Solid 2 as worthy contenders as well for excellent storytelling. One that succeeds at conveying a story without much help of words or dialogue, and another for conveying a somewhat meta, post-modern deconstruciton of what people perceive games to be, and how they should be played and understood in terms of story. It disperges the idea of seperating gameplay and story from each other, as in driving different vehicles, and instead brings them both together, and expands the framework beyond the 3 dimensions that seperates game from reality.. you know? Essentially, that's what Kojima said in regards to the Psycho Mantis boss battle in the first game when he talked about how he came up with the concept of that battle.

[Jorji Costava]

For the OP, if you're interested in this topic I'd strongly recommend Tom Bissell's Extra Lives: Why Video Games Matter. It's part autobiography, part video games criticism, but Bissell does an excellent job discussing the fraught relationship between narrative and gameplay in an accessible way.

 

I wouldn't say that story and gameplay are opposed, but there is definitely a tension between the two that there isn't between, say, story and cinematography. Part of the problem is that much of the dramatic tension in games, as opposed to books or movies, comes from the threat of things that the narrative itself can't recognize as canonical events within the story (most obviously, death). Thus, while the player is experiencing upswings and downswings during the course of play, the story of the game itself will consist almost entirely of success after success for the player character, because the failures you experienced along the way technically didn't happen.

 

This is why so many games feature cutscene-induced failure about two thirds of the way through the game (i.e. Kai Leng in ME3, Adam Jensen's brainfart against Zhao in DX:HR, etc.); they're trying to mimic traditional three act structure in the context of the game, and the results are jarring at best. Very few games (Planescape Torment, among others) have found a convincing workaround for this.

[Seraphim24]

For the OP, if you're interested in this topic I'd strongly recommend Tom Bissell's Extra Lives: Why Video Games Matter. It's part autobiography, part video games criticism, but Bissell does an excellent job discussing the fraught relationship between narrative and gameplay in an accessible way.

 

I wouldn't say that story and gameplay are opposed, but there is definitely a tension between the two that there isn't between, say, story and cinematography. Part of the problem is that much of the dramatic tension in games, as opposed to books or movies, comes from the threat of things that the narrative itself can't recognize as canonical events within the story (most obviously, death). Thus, while the player is experiencing upswings and downswings during the course of play, the story of the game itself will consist almost entirely of success after success for the player character, because the failures you experienced along the way technically didn't happen.

 

This is why so many games feature cutscene-induced failure about two thirds of the way through the game (i.e. Kai Leng in ME3, Adam Jensen's brainfart against Zhao in DX:HR, etc.); they're trying to mimic traditional three act structure in the context of the game, and the results are jarring at best. Very few games (Planescape Torment, among others) have found a convincing workaround for this.

 

I found this comment somewhat fascinating... because... isn't that exactly why video games are powerful and interesting, that they can't be reduced to "narrative" or "gameplay." What you consider the problem I may consider the whole source of the appeal... in some ways.

 

It's kind of like what is of value to people? The idea that you can go really fast, or how to go faster, or whether you should be driving in the first place? That kind of thing.

[KingTony]

Books are great for exploring a universe, you can get all of the background details.

Movies are great for laying out a plot. You can get all of the important details.

Games, on the other hand, tend to excel at introducing characters, when the dev takes advantage of this strength. You get to spend a lot more time with the character than you do with movies, and they feel more real than in books. You know what the look like, how they sound, how their sweat tastes.


Just my opinion.

[Sully13]

I know it dosnt show whith my Grammer and spelling but i read a lot i have over 200 books in my collection.

[leadintea]

The main problem with most games' stories tend to be the gameplay/story segregation where you constantly have to stop playing the game in order to experience the story. It's the reason why many people say you can put so many game stories unto other media without losing anything, and unfortunately, it's true. What more games need to do is use their gameplay, a tool unique to video games, to reinforce the story and themes in the game. I've heard that Journey and Spec Ops: The LIne do this quite well, though I haven't played those games, so I wouldn't know.

[Dio Demon]

I know it dosnt show whith my Grammer and spelling but i read a lot i have over 200 books in my collection.

You still spell better than most people. A typical conversation with someone: Do U wnt 2 go 2 the mall wit me? And knowing them it'll be spelled even worse.

 

Those people don't need Jesus. They need a lot of good books.