266 réponses à ce sujet

[aerisblight]

Solas and i have a difficult relationship. I went with the mages, kept the wardens closeby, and i punish/reward people the best i can. Sometimes we disagree, but sometimes we agree.
If i want to hear stories or need knowledge i always turn to Solas. I love how he tells his stories about the fade.... like a kid that received his favorite toy.
What i needed the most was his reaction when i drank from the well. I thought; what could possibly go wrong?
So when i got home and talked to solas about it he *scolded* me. I just sat there with my controller in hand and felt like a little kid beig scolded by its mother.
Solas has its own agenda yes, but i also believe he cares about u as a person.

[Korva]

Oh, I don't know - I quite like the balcony scene, simply because I think it shows more vulnerable and conflicted side of Solas.

 

That is true, but my problem with it is that it shows the bad sides of the character in a really glaring way -- in a moment that, to me, felt like it should cement their friendship (as much as that is even possible with Solas) instead of potentially torpedoing the protagonist's/player's opinion of him big time.

 

Granted, not every "friendship scene" has to be the same nor does it have to go over without a hitch. But when I compare this moment to say Cassandra's or Cole's (those two being my undisputed favourite characters) friendship scenes, or to Varric's ever-popular Wicked Grace game with most of the crew, it's just such a stark contrast. Those other scenes left me feeling joyful, affectionate, accomplished, and truly connected to these characters -- while Solas' scene made me want to knee him in the balls and tell him to get the f*ck over himself.

 

Basically, Patrick Weekes could have waved Solas' many red flags around in a different context that doesn't thoroughly spoil what I expected and wanted to be a bonding moment.

 

The Fade dream sequence is likely what you say it is - him being fascinated and delighted with the fact that someone else can visit him in the Fade and that the Herald entertains the idea that the world is more complex, but at that point in the story/playthrough Inquisitor is probably not much more for him than a curiosity. While he opens up a little, he's still very much guarded and careful, plus we can still lose a lot of approval with him and never trigger the balcony scene.

 

You're right -- that was a mistake on my part. I thought I remembered the dream and the balcony scenes happening right after each other, forgetting the actual non-cutscene post-dream talk with him. Still, it does remain highly weird that the moment that should be the "climax" of their friendship ends up being (to me) the worst of their interactions instead.

 

What I mean is... he has his plans or his mission and I don't think anyone doubts that they require doing something either controversial or downright awful - and even if he's conflicted about it, he seems determined to go through with it. Psychologically it would mean that he'd have to keep convincing himself that either it's worth it or the world or people he's going to sacrifice is all kinds of bad - and people he encounters in Inquisition simply prove him wrong. Aside from Inquisitor, he has a very good opinion about Cassandra (how could he not? Cass is AWESOME), seems to like Varric and many other companions and seems to be genuinely sympathetic to plea of many people met along the way.

 

But that's another issue with the balcony scene -- he actually disses Cassandra (and Leliana, though that is more understandable because she is a hot mess) there, acting like the Inquisitor is the only tolerable person in the whole gig. Which feels really bad when this happens after he's already had a lot of awesome banters with her in the field and you feel like those two have truly built a rapport based on a mutual respect that defies their differences.

 

So on one side, I get a feeling that he really wants to justify his actions and keep believing all kind of bad things about the world (though it's not like the world doesn't give him ample reasons to think that way, nor it's like he puts ancient elves/gods on pedestal, judging from available dialogue and banter) - but on the other, he sometimes seems almost happy and relieved to find out that it's not all that bad and perhaps worth fighting for. I also think that what Blackwall said about Cullen at some point fits hims as well (I paraphrase): "He's seen the best and the worst what world has to offer - and he still struggles with where it leaves him."

 

Yes, this I definitely agree with ... and that quote does fit him quite well, too. Plus with Solas there's the added burden of being partly responsible for the whole mess we're trying to fix and "having" to hide and lie to everyone the whole time. He can't afford to truly open up, and clinging to his prejudice is likely a good barrier that helps him keep people at arm's length.

 

I do wonder how he managed to keep the whole "I gave Corypheus his weapon of mass destruction" issue hidden from Cole. Surely he has to feel some measure of guilt for that colossal mistake? If he manages to completely shut that guilt down to the point that it no longer pings even Cole's hypersensitive radar, that's either some admirable self-control or a very worrying cold-bloodedness.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I allied with the Templars, specialized in their talents and kept the Grey Wardens in the Inquisition and he was still nice to me.

[NickyBarb]

I allied with the Templars, specialized in their talents and kept the Grey Wardens in the Inquisition and he was still nice to me.

Same. He dislikes one of my characters and that character never did get his personal quest. Yet I never got the discussion that leads up to punching him, so I am not sure what prompts it.

I do not think I can bring myself to hate him. I just find myself feeling sorry for him.

[midnight tea]

That is true, but my problem with it is that it shows the bad sides of the character in a really glaring way -- in a moment that, to me, felt like it should cement their friendship (as much as that is even possible with Solas) instead of potentially torpedoing the protagonist's/player's opinion of him big time.

 

Granted, not every "friendship scene" has to be the same nor does it have to go over without a hitch. But when I compare this moment to say Cassandra's or Cole's (those two being my undisputed favourite characters) friendship scenes, or to Varric's ever-popular Wicked Grace game with most of the crew, it's just such a stark contrast. Those other scenes left me feeling joyful, affectionate, accomplished, and truly connected to these characters -- while Solas' scene made me want to knee him in the balls and tell him to get the f*ck over himself.

 

Well, maybe he was testing Inquisitor that way It's not the first time he states something controversial and goads a person for a reaction, to see who they are.

 

Though I think the main reason for difference between Cassandra or Varric and Solas is this - neither Cassandra nor Varric are ancient, worn down and possibly very emotionally damaged. No wonder the contrast is stark - their life experience is starkly different.

Add to that the fact that Solas - as far as we know - spent at least a millennium probably not interacting with anyone living. After all, during his personal quest, he admits to Inquisitor that he has no friends other than spirits.

 

And aside from the internal conflict, introversion and lack of human contact or interaction for a long time, there's this whole strange and secret mission he's dedicated to. He knows that he's in Inquisition only as long as it serves his goals - he doesn't want to make friends and keeps everyone at bay possibly for this specific reason. It's less of an emotional issue when he has to either move on/abandon everyone when he's made no deep connection - even though he seemingly yearns for it. He fears dying alone, he seems curious about people he's surrounded with and if he falls for Lavellan, he seems to lose his head for her to such extent, that he fools himself into thinking he can pursue relationship with her.

 

 

 

I thought I remembered the dream and the balcony scenes happening right after each other, forgetting the actual non-cutscene post-dream talk with him. Still, it does remain highly weird that the moment that should be the "climax" of their friendship ends up being (to me) the worst of their interactions instead.

 

I don't remember how much approval we need to have to trigger the scene, but apparently it needs to be pretty high.

 

Anyway - the climax of friendship doesn't necessarily have to be all cheerful and easy. Not for people like Solas - for many reasons, including those I've listed above. Thing is that for Solas this seems to be a pinnacle of his internal conflict - as if he's balancing on a ledge between keeping his own personal status quo and accepting truths that fly in the face of it. Never easy for anyone, even people who are fairly open-minded.

 

And while the romance scene is all nice and cool (the animation prior to the kiss is brilliant - it wouldn't be more explicit if they showed him balancing at the very edge of a cliff) I do really like his meek declaration of friendship. It's adorkable - he just can't bring himself to say anything other than 'I respect you' (possibly also because he realizes that things he said make him look awkward in retrospect xD)

 

Also, I'd like to point out something I pointed out already in another thread. Solas criticizes everyone, oftentimes harshly - but show me a group he speaks only positive things about.

 

Humans, qunari, dwarves?

Nope.

 

City elves?
No.

Dalish?
Hehe, nope.

 

Ancient elves?

He tells Dorian that his romanticized vision of ancient elves is pointless and that Arlathan was no better than Tevinter at its time (which, considering how bad ancient Tevinter was, is a pretty harsh judgment).

 

Elven gods?

He calls them arrogant and fickle.

 

What we have to understand is this - he doesn't just says "yo, all your people suck, but not you". Inquisitor is unique on a much larger scale, because for him, he or she is apparently above all mentioned groups. Do you realize in how ABSURDLY high regard that is?

 

 

But that's another issue with the balcony scene -- he actually disses Cassandra (and Leliana, though that is more understandable because she is a hot mess) there, acting like the Inquisitor is the only tolerable person in the whole gig. Which feels really bad when this happens after he's already had a lot of awesome banters with her in the field and you feel like those two have truly built a rapport based on a mutual respect that defies their differences.

 

If you take into consideration what I've said above this quote, it's quite understandable. I also wouldn't call what he did as 'dissing' Cassandra or admitting that only Inquisitor is the only tolerable one. 

 

Cassandra is AWESOME, but I see where he's coming from - she has her flaws, and while she's entirely dedicated to the pursuit of truth (something I adore in her), she still holds many biases that can heavily distort the picture of reality.

Same with Leliana (and probably himself - Leliana says things about people that are very similar to what he says, which is apparent especially after a small scene after she finds out that she's considered to be a candidate for a Divine - she reveals how she thinks that most people are sheep; small and petty).

 

It's different with Inquisitor, because for him, it's possibly a character he views as being more... wholesome. Well-rounded. Possibly somewhat flawed (depending how we actually play our character), but not as much as other people - not just intelligent, like Leliana, but with ether faith (not necessarily religious faith) or resolve undamaged, with open mind and heart, making decisions mostly untainted by rigid black-and-white thinking and able to see a big picture. A truly legendary figure, which, I'd like to remind, he compares to someone or something he has not seen for ages, apparently anywhere.

 

 

Yes, this I definitely agree with ... and that quote does fit him quite well, too. Plus with Solas there's the added burden of being partly responsible for the whole mess we're trying to fix and "having" to hide and lie to everyone the whole time. He can't afford to truly open up, and clinging to his prejudice is likely a good barrier that helps him keep people at arm's length.

 

Yup!
 

 

I do wonder how he managed to keep the whole "I gave Corypheus his weapon of mass destruction" issue hidden from Cole. Surely he has to feel some measure of guilt for that colossal mistake? If he manages to completely shut that guilt down to the point that it no longer pings even Cole's hypersensitive radar, that's either some admirable self-control or a very worrying cold-bloodedness.

 

Cole also knew about Thom Rainier - Blackwall even asks Cole about it after we find out who he truly is and Cole says that he never hid the truth from him. When asked why, he said that it's because he felt how dearly Blackwall wanted to change and fix his mistakes - I kinda assume it's similar for Solas.
 

I mean, it's obvious that Solas is very adept in controlling his emotions - that is certain and there were probably many things he hid or was able to hide from Cole.

 

Still, available banter reveals that Cole knows something - there was more than one instance of very telling conversations between them, and I'm not just talking about post-breakup banter.

Plus, there's this whole post-epilogue 'message' from Cole - Solas is apparently so despondent after the loss of the orb, that Cole is able to find him (while even Leliana's people failed) and instead of hiding this pain, he finds himself forced to erase Cole's memory, which only suggests that whatever he plans to do, he'll be doing it with a heavy heart.

[turuzzusapatuttu]

*snip for space*

 

I mean, it's obvious that Solas is very adept in controlling his emotions

 

He wasn't that adept in controlling his emotions when he asked my Quizzy to let him kill those mages...

[midnight tea]

He wasn't that adept in controlling his emotions when he asked my Quizzy to lem him kill those mages...

 

I said that he's "very adept in controlling his emotions" - NOT that he's an absolute master in it. Everyone who either befriended or romanced him, or listened to what he has to say, knows that he has his outbursts or moments he reveals how passionate he's about many things.

 

Also, at that particular moment he is possibly at his lowest in currently available story (not counting things that happened at the end) - yet it only takes a soft plea from Inquisitor to make him stop and reconsider. He disapproves, alright, but he lets them live.

[Korva]

Well, maybe he was testing Inquisitor that way It's not the first time he states something controversial and goads a person for a reaction, to see who they are.

 

The problem is that, if true, this is a**hole behavior, and Bioware has a sad tendency to almost never let player characters call that out or nip it in the bud, hard, which always annoys the hell out of me.

 

Though I think the main reason for difference between Cassandra or Varric and Solas is this - neither Cassandra nor Varric are ancient, worn down and possibly very emotionally damaged.

 

Varric gets the "writer's favourite" kid glove treatment of never really having to deal with his issues, but if he had to, "emotionally damaged" is likely a term that could be used for him (especially if Hawke dies). Cassandra on the other hand is admirably stable and I've-got-my-sh*t-together for a Bioware companion, yes. Anyway, while Solas may be old and have more than his share of regrets, he's not the only one who knows pain so he's not getting special treatment or excuses from me for that.

 

Anyway - the climax of friendship doesn't necessarily have to be all cheerful and easy. Not for people like Solas - for many reasons, including those I've listed above.

 

I know, and I said as much myself, but that doesn't make his behavior any less insulting nor the presumed friendship scene any less jarringly unpleasant. To me, at least. And the worst bit is that -- again -- we can't call him out on it (not that I remember, at least) and are instead supposed to feel "honored" by it. It's just such a huge WTF-situation for me.

 

Also, I'd like to point out something I pointed out already in another thread. Solas criticizes everyone, oftentimes harshly - but show me a group he speaks only positive things about.

 

Exactly, and that makes it worse than if he was "just" bigoted towards one or two groups of people.

 

What we have to understand is this - he doesn't just says "yo, all your people suck, but not you". Inquisitor is unique on a much larger scale, because for him, he or she is apparently above all mentioned groups. Do you realize in how ABSURDLY high regard that is?

 

It isn't. Not at all. This sort of thing is never a compliment -- it's a colossal red flag in any kind of relationship, be it friends or bedwarmers or family or work colleagues. It's such an easy, vile trap that many people gleefully fall for because they want to be "special". And the more bigoted and arrogant someone is, the more "special" that person's questionable "respect" makes you. Supposedly. But it's all bullsh*t.

 

That is what makes this scene so ugly for me. Solas' words did not make me feel valued or respected in any way, shape or form. It made me feel like he was wiping his ass on me right after taking a big steaming dump. And let's not forget that his first impulse at realizing that maybe you're "not like all the other X" is apparently to assume that it came from contact with his own little toy. In other words, that something of his elevated you to a level that is acceptable to him. It rubbed me up the wrong way even before I knew that the orb belonged to him.

 

Cassandra is AWESOME, but I see where he's coming from - she has her flaws, and while she's entirely dedicated to the pursue of truth (something I adore in her), she still holds many biases that can heavily distort the picture of reality.

 

The same is true for most people (and certainly Solas himself), but she actually makes an effort to learn and grow ... unlike many (again including, arguably, Solas himself). He should know that better than anyone because of the amazing banters he has with her, so for him to say what he does about her in the balcony scene no matter at which point of their relationship they are makes him sound like the sort of person who will smile in your face and then spit on you once your back is turned. Untrustworthy, dishonest, unpleasant. I don't think he's intended to be that way so I don't actively hold it against him, but it does feel ugly and like bad writing.

 

It's different with Inquisitor, because for him, it's possibly a character he views as being more... wholesome. Well-rounded. Possibly somewhat flawed (depending how we actually play our character), but not as much as other people - not just intelligent, like Leliana, but with ether faith (not necessarily religious faith) or resolve undamaged, with open mind and heart, making decisions mostly untainted by rigid black-and-white thinking. A truly legendary figure, which, I'd like to remind, he compares to someone or something he has not seen for ages, apparently anywhere.

 

And if Solas had expressed it in roughly that way, I would feel honored. (Maybe. I don't care for hearing an NPC say that my character is more gifted or smart or wise or powerful or whatever than everyone else. That is just an eye-rolling level of ego-stroking that I'll happily do without.) Expressing admiration works so much better when done by actually mentioning someone's positive traits instead of saying how everyone else is crap.

 

Cole also knew about Thom Rainier - Blackwall even asks Cole about it after we find out who he truly is and Cole says that he never hid the truth from him. When asked why, he said that it's because he felt how dearly Blackwall wanted to change and fix his mistakes - I kinda assume it's similar for Solas.

 

The big difference between the two is that many of the pre-Revelations Cole/Blackwall banters basically club you over the head with a clue-by-four about how our "Warden" is hiding something and has some questionable stains on his past, while there's not even the slightest hint at what Solas did nor any remorse over it in the Cole/Solas banters. Maybe that's because the writers felt that his bombshell is much more important to keep secret so it remains a bombshell, while Blackwall and his secret are much more "minor" and have nothing to do with future major story hooks.

 

Still, available banter reveals that Cole knows something - there were more than one instance of highly indicative conversations between them, and I'm not just talking about post-breakup banter.

 

Yes, there's a pretty big hint about Solas being the one who locked the other gods away. He still feels remorse for that, and gets kind of emotional over it. I'd have liked even a single, vague hint that he feels something about his more recent mistakes, too, because without such a hint, it seems like he's utterly callous about it all -- which I don't think is true, I don't think he's that much of an a**hole. It would be good to have "proof" of him not being that, though, because IMO this is too huge a thing to leave it up to interpretation. Solas is pretty good at controlling himself, but he's not perfect, and Cole's hypersensitive radar is always online (especially if he becomes more spirit-like again).

[Korva]

Also, at that particular moment he is possibly at his lowest in currently available story (not counting things that happened at the end) - yet it only takes a soft plea from Inquisitor to make him stop and reconsider. He disapproves, alright, but he lets them live.

 

Aside from the Fade dream, this one brief moment is actually my favourite part of Solas' interaction with the Inquisitor. The fact that he is willing to stand down despite his very understandable grief and fury, and without snapping at the Inquisitor or arguing how those mages deserve to die, shows a level of respect that the hideous balcony scene with all its backhanded non-compliments couldn't measure up against in a million years. It's a beautifully understated and poignant moment.

[Felya87]

Aside from the Fade dream, this one brief moment is actually my favourite part of Solas' interaction with the Inquisitor. The fact that he is willing to stand down despite his very understandable grief and fury, and without snapping at the Inquisitor or arguing how those mages deserve to die, shows a level of respect that the hideous balcony scene with all its backhanded non-compliments couldn't measure up against in a million years. It's a beautifully understated and poignant moment.

He just need one word to stop. That say a lot. One word and he is collected enought to step back.

[midnight tea]

The problem is that, if true, this is a**hole behavior, and Bioware has a sad tendency to almost never let player characters call that out or nip it in the bud, hard, which always annoys the hell out of me.

 

It would be an a**hole behavior only if he actually goaded Inquisitor for no reason and never backed down. He does not. He steps away, admits that he respects the Inquisitor and says that he disturbed them enough for one evening. End of story.

 

As for other companions - they mostly resolve things among themselves.

 

 

Varric gets the "writer's favourite" kid glove treatment of never really having to deal with his issues, but if he had to, "emotionally damaged" is likely a term that could be used for him (especially if Hawke dies). Cassandra on the other hand is admirably stable and I've-got-my-sh*t-together for a Bioware companion, yes. Anyway, while Solas may be old and have more than his share of regrets, he's not the only one who knows pain so he's not getting special treatment or excuses from me for that.

 

Every character has his or her emotional baggage, but in this particular case it is a matter of proportion... or rather, huge DIS-proportion between burdens they carry.

 

You can't compare, say, the loss of a few friends and a slew of unfortunate events to years, maybe even centuries of fighting devastating war that tore entire civilization, probably made worse by some sort of horrible betrayal (the game indicates he was betrayed first) and possible desperate measures taken that had (and likely will have) terrifying consequences for the entire world.

 

It's like comparing a somewhat unfortunate 'random Joe' to, say, World War II veteran from Eastern Europe, who lost everything, seen all his family and friends torn and destroyed by war, spent years in concentration camp, forced to make terrible decisions that made him question his humanity only to return to ashes of his home and to find out that even that has been taken away from him.

You can't just hand-wave it, point at 'random Joe' and be all like "Well, HE got over it, so he should as well!" ...Especially that Varric actually has people he can lean on. Solas, apparently, does not.

In fact, if romanced, he reveals that he's been alone for so long, it's difficult for him to get used to having support of others - which is a pretty heart-wrenching admission. It begs to ask if he ever even had opportunity to properly grieve or get over anything that happened to him.

 

 

I know, and I said as much myself, but that doesn't make his behavior any less insulting nor the presumed friendship scene any less jarringly unpleasant. To me, at least. And the worst bit is that -- again -- we can't call him out on it (not that I remember, at least) and are instead supposed to feel "honored" by it. It's just such a huge WTF-situation for me.

 

It's not like there are no dialogue options that are more confrontational than others in that particular cutscene. And like you said - it's a matter of personal opinion or sensibilities. I neither felt offended, nor found this exchange as insulting as you do.

 

 

Exactly, and that makes it worse than if he was "just" bigoted towards one or two groups of people.

 

LOL, that I don't get - how does it make him worse? If anything, it means that no group gets any special treatment from him, as they're all relatively equal in his eyes (as far as we know).

 

Plus, having a critical or even flawed opinion about something doesn't make somebody a bigot yet. Is Dorian criticizing - as harshly as he does - his homeland making him a bigot? He criticizes because he cares. And I have a feeling a lot of Solas' criticisms have similar roots.

 

Also - a bigot is someone who stubbornly holds extremely hostile and unfair opinion about people or people's opinions. And in the balcony scene Solas not only openly and willingly confronts his prejudices (even if he;s yet to overcome them all); he's proved more than once that he's willing to change his mind on this or many other topics (save maybe the Qun and the necessity of uber-restrictive Circles of Magi) - many times in banter or dialogue he says how something impressed, surprised him or admits to probably being wrong.

So call him prejudiced, embittered or unfair - but bigotry is a bit over the top.

 

It isn't. Not at all. This sort of thing is never a compliment -- it's a colossal red flag in any kind of relationship, be it friends or bedwarmers or family or work colleagues. It's such an easy, vile trap that many people gleefully fall for because they want to be "special". And the more bigoted and arrogant someone is, the more "special" that person's questionable "respect" makes you. Supposedly. But it's all bullsh*t.

 

I'm sorry, but.... Cassandra, Blackwall, Dorian, Cole (when turned to spirit especially) and practically any other befriended companion (save maybe Sera and Vivienne, though even they have their moments) sing praises about Inquisitor to similar extent, yet you don't seem to be as insulted by it, nor call it bullsh*t.

 

Yet when a person who has great difficulty opening up tries to do so (awkwardly or not), confronts his biases, is honest about it and admits to genuinely, deeply respect a person, ultimately for who they are as a person, and not because of any special lineage... suddenly it's a colossal, red flag?

 

I just don't get it.

 

 

That is what makes this scene so ugly for me. Solas' words did not make me feel valued or respected in any way, shape or form. It made me feel like he was wiping his ass on me right after taking a big steaming dump. And let's not forget that his first impulse at realizing that maybe you're "not like all the other X" is apparently to assume that it came from contact with his own little toy. In other words, that something of his elevated you to a level that is acceptable to him. It rubbed me up the wrong way even before I knew that the orb belonged to him.

 

An inquisitive mind has to consider such possibility, especially if Inquisitor is such a surprise for him. You have to give him that - he has deeper knowledge about the world than an average person, that's for sure. His opinions don't stem from nowhere.

And honestly - on one hand I somewhat get your concerns, but at the same time I think you're getting way too worked up about it.

 

Also, you have to decide whether Inquisitor is "just acceptable to Solas" or are you criticizing him for having Inquisitor in as high regard as he seemingly does - something you criticized only a paragraph ago.

 

...It almost seems like it's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario for poor elf - unless he expresses his appreciation towards your character you the way YOU want him to, he either doesn't treat you special enough ("why, how dare he even CONSIDER that anything I am can come from the orb, instead of counting all my positive traits and saying how much he likes me!") or treats you as someone too special ("how dare he think of me this highly! It's not like Varric thinks I'm intimidating and actually chosen by Andraste, just like Cassandra, who also thinks I shall decide the fate of Thedas!")

 

Like... eh, see what I mean?

 

 

The same is true for most people (and certainly Solas himself), but she actually makes an effort to learn and grow ... unlike many (again including, arguably, Solas himself). He should know that better than anyone because of the amazing banters he has with her, so for him to say what he does about her in the balcony scene no matter at which point of their relationship they are makes him sound like the sort of person who will smile in your face and then spit on you once your back is turned. Untrustworthy, dishonest, unpleasant. I don't think he's intended to be that way so I don't actively hold it against him, but it does feel ugly and like bad writing.

 

 

.... The only things he says about Cassandra is that she separates matters of faith from matters of the world, and as someone on her position she should know how limiting that is. That's a polite criticism (observation, really), and a fairly mild one, all things considered - and you're reacting to it as if he called her a stupid, fat cow 

 

Well then, why are you not going after Iron Bull as well? He says similarly "offensive" things about Cassandra if you ask him at some point (she can't be a leader of the Inquisition, because she's too busy searching for answers).

 

He also never said or suggested anything about her (or anyone else) being unable to learn, grow, change or anything. Plus - their relationship is still developing. I don't think his balcony scene can be triggered after Mythal and, if I remember correctly, in last series of banters (if we complete everything, including her personal quests) he only has positive things to say about Cassandra.

 

 

 

And if Solas had expressed it in roughly that way, I would feel honored.

 

If it can be extrapolated from things he says, why do you need to have it spelled out to appreciate it?

 

Expressing admiration works so much better when done by actually mentioning someone's positive traits instead of saying how everyone else is crap.

 

One of the first things he says is "you show a wisdom I haven't seen for a while" - only after Inqusitor asks him to elaborate, he mentions reasons why he's so surprised.

 

And it's not like he's saying that everyone else is JUST crap or something - aside from the fact that apparently everyone else has something to criticize about them; from people, through Qunari to ancient gods. But not in a sense that they're all horrid and depraved or unable to change his opinion - far from it.

 

Also, you have to keep in mind that Inquisitor is kinda in a special position, even before they prove they're 'speshul' in any other way. They're rising world leaders who will likely change the face of Thedas in more than one way, so they both require and deserve special assessment - and they do, from pretty much everyone. There's no other way around it. They can't just be "nice" or "smart" or "good buddies" or any other generic stuff like that, and for obvious reasons.

 

 

The big difference between the two is that many of the pre-Revelations Cole/Blackwall banters basically club you over the head with a clue-by-four about how our "Warden" is hiding something and has some questionable stains on his past, while there's not even the slightest hint at what Solas did nor any remorse over it in the Cole/Solas banters. Maybe that's because the writers felt that his bombshell is much more important to keep secret so it remains a bombshell, while Blackwall and his secret are much more "minor" and have nothing to do with future major story hooks.

 

The big difference between both is that Blackwall gets his arc resolved before Inquisition ends, while we don't really yet know what Solas really is and what he's really done.

 

Also, it's just not true that he shows no remorse. In one of the last banters that can be triggered with Cole, that exact issue is addressed - and if asked by Inquisitor what they're talking about, Solas says "a mistake, one of many made by a much younger elf who though he knew everything"... and he sounds almost as he's at the verge of crying. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard a voice actor generate so much pain in his voice. It was weirdly unsettling.

 

Plus, we also have the post-credit scene where he's pretty visibly crushed about both what transpired as well what's about to happen.

[Sports72Xtrm]

He wasn't that adept in controlling his emotions when he asked my Quizzy to let him kill those mages...

Would you not take it personal if your friend was kidnapped and tortured by a bunch of thoughtless ignorant jerk offs and are clearly unrepentant? I mean, you have to question if him wanting to murder those mages was the inhumane thing. What if the context was different. What if it's like what if those mages were like Dorian's dad, and though they think they have Dorian's best interests in mind, turns out they used blood magic to magic his gay away and caused him pain and turned him into an abomination. Sure you can say killing is wrong line no matter what (even though one could argue that's  bunch of self delusional validation to convince yourself you are a good person) but if the spirit of wisdom is considered a valued person would it be cold-blooded not to take the mages' actions personally?

[Korva]

Gotta split this for length and too many quotes.

 

It would be an a**hole behavior only if he actually goaded Inquisitor for no reason and never backed down. He does not. He steps away, admits that he respects the Inquisitor and says that he disturbed them enough for one evening. End of story.

 

"Goading" people is a**hole behavior, especially if you are already prejudiced.

 

Every character has his or her emotional baggage, but in this particular case it is a matter of proportion... or rather, huge DIS-proportion between burdens they carry.

 

(snip)

 

You can't just hand-wave it, point at 'random Joe' and be all like "Well, HE got over it, so he should as well!" ...Especially that Varric actually has people he can lean on. Solas, apparently, does not.

 

I'm not hand-waving anything or saying that Solas has no business being emotionally scarred. But just because someone has been through more crap than others doesn't invalidate the others' pain, either. And Solas not having people to lean on is pretty much his own fault because he's apparently given up on others and holds himself apart and above until partway through Inquisition -- while someone like Varric has a social support network because he's actively, continuously building it.

 

It's not like there are no dialogue options that are more confrontational than others in that particular cutscene.

 

I don't recall any that allowed me to confront his prejudice, though. That is the problem. You can be some degree of rude to NPCs in most conversations in a "STFU I don't care what you think" kind of way, but that's not the same as confronting bad attitudes or unacceptable actions. The closest I could come to telling him that I'm not okay with his attitude is the "I'm just one part of a team, what about the others" option, and that doesn't go anywhere because it's the one that triggers him brushing off Cass (and Leliana).

 

LOL, that I don't get - how does it make him worse? If anything, it means that no group gets any special treatment from him, as they're all relatively equal in his eyes (as far as we know).

 

How doesn't it make it worse? Sure, it would be worse still if he was some kind of ancient-elves-supremacist. But the more negative bias someone has, the more unpleasant they are.

 

Plus, having a critical or even flawed opinion about something doesn't make somebody a bigot yet. Is Dorian criticizing - as harshly as he does - his homeland making him a bigot? He criticizes because he cares. And I have a feeling a lot of Solas' criticisms have similar roots.

 

Having a critical opinion doesn't, but negatively judging everyone around him based on what they are does. It's especially jarring because it's also highly hypocritical of him -- he doesn't want to be seen as just another pair of pointy ears, after all. Also, Dorian doesn't hold himself apart from the people he's criticizing nor does he give an impression of having given up on trying to make it better. I do agree that Solas' attitude towards the elves, at least, most likely comes from a similar place as Dorian's feelings for Tevinter -- and that he eventually stops thinking it's all hopeless and not worth bothering with. It's just that what little of his new effort to "make it better" we see is ... worrying to say the least, especially in the light of the fact that he's made severe mistakes before.

 

And in the balcony scene Solas not only openly and willingly confronts his prejudices (even if he;s yet to overcome them all);

 

That's where I disagree -- it didn't feel like he was confronting them, but merely making an awkward, singular exception tinged with that unsubtle hint that he thinks something of his is what made you superior to others of your kind.

 

he's proved more than once that he's willing to change his mind on this or many other topics (save maybe the Qun and the necessity of uber-restrictive Circles of Magi) - many times in banter or dialogue he says how something impressed, surprised him or admits to probably being wrong.

 

Yes! That is why I still like the guy despite that crappy balcony scene, and it is also part of why I dislike that scene as much as I do. It could have reflected his broader ability and willingness to change his mind. Instead, it has him doubling down on his prejudice except for that one person. To me it feels like a regressive moment in his character development, one that clashes painfully with those positive moments.

 

I'm sorry, but.... Cassandra, Blackwall, Dorian, Cole (when turned to spirit especially) and practically any other befriended companion (save maybe Sera and Vivienne, though even they have their moments) sing praises about Inquisitor to similar extent, yet you don't seem to be as insulted by it, nor call it bullsh*t.

 

That's because they don't spend half their time in those scenes condescending everyone who isn't you and waving the colossal red flag of the "not like all the other X" trope around.

 

I'll probably put my opinion of why this is such an ugly trope in separate post and possibly under a spoiler tag so this doesn't get longer than it already is.

 

An inquisitive mind has to consider such possibility, especially if Inquisitor is such a surprise for him. You have to give him that - he has deeper knowledge about the world than an average person, that's for sure. His opinions don't stem from nowhere.

 

IMO it's arrogant rather than inquisitive to assume that his own magic is the reason why the Inquisitor is "not like all the other X". People grow and change all the time, especially in such extreme circumstances as the ones the inner circle of the Inquisition find themselves in. Certainly, the Anchor is part of these extreme circumstances -- and it is one of many plot aspects that positively scream for more depth and attention than they were given. But it's not a brainwashing tool, nor is it something that you can really engage with to affect change in yourself (unlike say another person or a belief system). If it has an effect on the Inquisitor, that effect comes from how s/he deals with the Anchor, not the Anchor itself.

[Korva]

.... The only things he says about Cassandra is that she separates matters of faith from matters of the world, and as someone on her position she should know how limiting that is. That's a polite criticism (observation, really), and a fairly mild one, all things considered - and you're reacting to it as if he called her a stupid, fat cow 

 

First, it's a really weird criticism that honestly doesn't make any sense to me, yet is stated as a matter-of-fact opinion that we can neither expect explanation for nor contradict. What he says about Leliana, yes, that does make sense. But Cassandra? Her faith is part of the reason why she's working so hard to make the world better. She is not some kind of cloistered nun eschewing contact with this flawed world. Nor is she a hypocrite who only uses her beliefs in situations that benefit her while ignoring it in others. The way she lives her beliefs is part of what makes her an admirable character in my book, not something meriting dismissal.

 

Also, Solas says this in direct response to the Inquisitor pointing out that s/he is just one part of this team. We're hardly the only remarkable or admirable or capable-of-growth individual, and Solas does know this because he's part and witness of Cassandra's development. So for him to brush it off as he does instead of showing at least some of the respect he supposedly has for her is ... off, to say the least.

 

Mind, I don't actually hold this against him. It's one reason why I dislike this scene, yes, but I see it more as an oversight of the writer(s) who didn't take the NPC banters or the question of how much these two NPCs have bonded at this point into consideration when writing the balcony scene. Also, it's unfortunately not the only case of an NPC who changes their mind about another NPC not being given a chance to express this outside of the particular banter with the other NPC. Yeah, it would mean recording a few more lines if the growing respect/friendship/trust was reflected in other situations as well, but it would really help to make these characters' development feel more "real". Much of what happens to and with the NPCs sadly feels like it exists only in a vacuum.

 

Well then, why are you not going after Iron Bull as well? He says similarly "offensive" things about Cassandra if you ask him at some point (she can't be a leader of the Inquisition, because she's too busy searching for answers).

 

Because one can discuss issue A without also discussing off-topic issues B, C and D. Plus Bull is not a character I like, so I don't spend much time talking to or thinking about him. Solas, despite being an undeniable a**hole and hypocrite at various times and about various things, has enough positive moments and aspects to still make me consider him a good and for the most part well-written character, if not an easily likeable one. The big reveal was a nasty surprise and I kind of fear that I'll ... not at all like where he goes from here as the Dread Wolf, but Solas-as-Solas, the character we get to interact with, is interesting and worth talking about.

 

If it can be extrapolated from things he says, why do you need to have it spelled out to appreciate it?

 

Several reasons. One, it's a huge issue and a very controversial character. Two, it's highly plot-relevant, much moreso than say Solas' regret over the "old days" (or even the break-up). Three, it always feels off and unsatisfying to me when writers establish something ("this character is immensely sensitive to others' pain and above all else desires to help them"), only to ignore it when it suits them ("but this issue is supposed to be a hidden post-credits surprise so he isn't allowed to pick it up") -- whether it is done deliberately or as a genuine but still glaring oversight.

 

And it's not like he's saying that everyone else is JUST crap or something

 

Yes. As far as prejudice goes, his is relatively "mild" because he is still willing to show empathy instead of callously disregarding others or actively hurting them. He's not uncaring, and -- as we speculated earlier -- his crappy attitude is likely in part a defense mechanism to keep himself together (and his secrets safe). I understand a lot of what he says and does, but that doesn't mean I don't think parts of it aren't highly unpalatable.

 

Also, you have to keep in mind that Inquisitor is kinda in a special position, even before they prove they're 'speshul' in any other way. They're rising world leaders who will likely change the face of Thedas in more than one way, so they both require and deserve special assessment - and they do, from pretty much everyone. There's no other way around it. They can't just be "nice" or "smart" or "good buddies" or any other generic stuff like that, and for obvious reasons.

 

Special assessment, yes, and I wish games like this held us more stridently responsible for our actions and didn't hand every player character power and rank just because they are the player character. But special assessment requires neither "not like other X" prejudice nor ego-stroking -- both are likely counterproductive, in fact.

 

The big difference between both is that Blackwall gets his arc resolved before Inquisition ends, while we don't really yet know what Solas really is and what he's really done.

 

Which is a big mistake IMO -- especially if they continue their policy of changing protagonists and rendering the old ones irrelevant. Resolving (the majority of) his arc in a new game with a new character will lack the emotional connection (for good or ill) that the we built in this game and with this character. That personal connection is what tends to make for the most memorable antagonists or "wildcards", but sadly it's something Bioware don't really consider or try to create with their villains.

 

Also, the more time passes between now and the continuation of his story, the less people are likely to really care. Except for maybe the most ardent Solas-fans, I suppose.

 

Also, it's just not true that he shows no remorse. In one of the last banters that can be triggered with Cole, that exact issue is addressed - and if asked by Inquisitor what they're talking about, Solas says "a mistake, one of many made by a much younger elf who though he knew everything"... and he sounds almost as he's at the verge of crying.

 

A much younger elf, yes. Meaning mistakes from the very distant past, not the recent past or the present.

 

Plus, we also have the post-credit scene where he's pretty visibly crushed about both what transpired as well what's about to happen.

 

Crushed by the loss of his orb when he thought he was so close to recovering it, yes. And regretting the murder of an old friend he's about to commit. But he doesn't hesitate to commit it, nor is he willing to pay the price for his mistakes. He's too important in his own mind for that.

[Sports72Xtrm]

First, it's a really weird criticism that honestly doesn't make any sense to me, yet is stated as a matter-of-fact opinion that we can neither expect explanation for nor contradict. What he says about Leliana, yes, that does make sense. But Cassandra? Her faith is part of the reason why she's working so hard to make the world better. She is not some kind of cloistered nun eschewing contact with this flawed world. Nor is she a hypocrite who only uses her beliefs in situations that benefit her while ignoring it in others. The way she lives her beliefs is part of what makes her an admirable character in my book, not something meriting dismissal.

 

Also, Solas says this in direct response to the Inquisitor pointing out that s/he is just one part of this team. We're hardly the only remarkable or admirable or capable-of-growth individual, and Solas does know this because he's part and witness of Cassandra's development. So for him to brush it off as he does instead of showing at least some of the respect he supposedly has for her is ... off, to say the least.

 

Mind, I don't actually hold this against him. It's one reason why I dislike this scene, yes, but I see it more as an oversight of the writer(s) who didn't take the NPC banters or the question of how much these two NPCs have bonded at this point into consideration when writing the balcony scene. Also, it's unfortunately not the only case of an NPC who changes their mind about another NPC not being given a chance to express this outside of the particular banter with the other NPC. Yeah, it would mean recording a few more lines if the growing respect/friendship/trust was reflected in other situations as well, but it would really help to make these characters' development feel more "real". Much of what happens to and with the NPCs sadly feels like it exists only in a vacuum.

What Solas is saying is that Cassandra's flaw is that she doesn't put her faith into action. Sure she says she believes in the Chantry, but seeing the mage rebellion spiral out of control even with Chantry intervention has clearly shaken her confidence. This is made even worse when in the Seekers of Truth's corruption is made evidently clear. She's also not confident about herself because she relinquished command to the Inquisitor, her organization that she helped build, to an outsider. All that Solas is saying is that as long as she doubts herself, she'll eventually burn out and find herself in a mess should she take any  political leadership role. Which is evident because unless the Inquisitor convinces her of reforming her seekers and thus validating her confidence, some of her endings leads to her tearing the chantry apart to being dependent on the Inquisitor to keep her leadership as divine together. It's not really ego stroking, in comparison to all other candidates, the Inquisitor is more capable because that is what the protagonist is. Even should they mess up, the Inquisitor just by being the Inquisitor, can show that they can handle any situation. Whereas other characters are hung up by their baggage and crisis of faith.

[midnight tea]

"Goading" people is a**hole behavior, especially if you are already prejudiced.

 

Only if the goal of either goading or being honest in opinion is to uphold these prejudices. And with everything that's been done or said, can you truly accuse him of such? 

 

 

I'm not hand-waving anything or saying that Solas has no business being emotionally scarred. But just because someone has been through more crap than others doesn't invalidate the others' pain, either. And Solas not having people to lean on is pretty much his own fault because he's apparently given up on others and holds himself apart and above until partway through Inquisition -- while someone like Varric has a social support network because he's actively, continuously building it.

 

Did I say anything about invalidating someone's pain entirely? Does Solas acts as if his pain was more important than that of others? Well then why does he say - when Cole asks him how can he help him, since his pain is "vast across the Veil" - that Cole should focus on helping others, because they need his help more urgently?

 

I'm only saying that you have to put things in perspective. Varric is a good person and a great character, but it's easier to build social support network when your issues are of more mundane variety than those of an old elven god (or even Inquisitor or Champion of Kirkwall) and whatever baggage or duties come with it. He also never has to deal with a very possible scenario of everybody he ever loved or cared about eventually withering and dying, because he's probably going to outlive them all.

 

Also - why do you suddenly assume that "Solas has given up on everyone" plainly because of his arrogance and not, say, the extraordinary circumstances in his life or situation he's found himself in??? 

I don't even have to say how unfair this assessment is, with everything that has already been said in this thread.

 

I've gotta ask - the more this discussion goes, the more your opinion about Solas appears to be hyperbolic and rigid. How so? How is it that the longer this thread is, the less charitable you are towards this character and assume only the worst possible explanation of his every action? 

 

I don't recall any that allowed me to confront his prejudice, though. That is the problem. You can be some degree of rude to NPCs in most conversations in a "STFU I don't care what you think" kind of way, but that's not the same as confronting bad attitudes or unacceptable actions. The closest I could come to telling him that I'm not okay with his attitude is the "I'm just one part of a team, what about the others" option, and that doesn't go anywhere because it's the one that triggers him brushing off Cass (and Leliana).

 

Brushing off.... WHY do you keep assuming that he just "brushes" them off, like - entirely? He only explains (and respectfully so) that while Cassandra and Leliana are both excellent people (absolutely nothing in what he says suggests there that he writes them off as such), each of them has flaws that makes them not see full picture the way Inquisitor does.

 

It's hardly "brushing off", merely the way of saying - "you have a decent team, but IMO it's good that you're the one who is making main decisions here". 

 

What's more, Cassandra agrees with him! They talk about this via banter. She tells him why she's given up the leadership of Inquisition when he asks about it - because she knows herself and she realizes that she's not the person to be in such important position!

 

See what I am talking about? You choose to be unfair towards him - because for some inexplicable reason, you keep this 2-minute conversation entirely out of the context of the game, or anything else Solas ever did or said, either about Inquisitor or other characters.

 

That, over here, is your main problem.

 

Also - yes, you can tell him what amounts to, basically "seems like what you were told about us has some holes in it" (option 3). Therefore yes, you can tell him that you think that his opinion is unfair. I myself think that this is enough. 

 

 

How doesn't it make it worse? Sure, it would be worse still if he was some kind of ancient-elves-supremacist. But the more negative bias someone has, the more unpleasant they are.

 

LOL, if that only makes Solas "unpleasant", I can't see the issue, really. Also, neither his actions or things he says overall suggest that he's an unapologetic misanthrope and wants the world to burn, no matter what. Again - you CAN'T keep these things aside of the context.

 

It's especially apparent that it's not the case when you realize that his entire arc through Inquisition is him being truly morally conflicted with either what happened or what's about to transpire - it may even be that actions of Inquisition may veer him in one direction or another, in similar way we do Leliana (we can either harden or inspire her), or other companions in fact (if we help them deal with their personal issues).

 

Also - is it still a simple bias when he's equally critical about basically everyone? That only makes him a pessimist (he himself admitted that he's 'grim and fatalistic'), not a raging bigot.

 

 

Having a critical opinion doesn't, but negatively judging everyone around him based on what they are does. It's especially jarring because it's also highly hypocritical of him -- he doesn't want to be seen as just another pair of pointy ears, after all. Also, Dorian doesn't hold himself apart from the people he's criticizing nor does he give an impression of having given up on trying to make it better.

 

Yet he judges the Inquisitor ultimately based on what they do, rather than what they are - which is the point of the entire balcony scene, really.

Oh sure, he can still be legitimately called prejudiced for having low, initial opinion, but he proves by that that he still remains open-minded and ready to give credit, where credit's due.

 

Also - Dorian is an adorable bundle of good intentions and deeds and I really like that he tries to find common ground with everyone, but he's far from being ideal.

He's a rich boy who lived most of his life in a bubble, so yes - he does hold himself apart form certain groups of people: commoners especially. Haven't you heard his banters with Blackwall? Plus, he never really thought about, say, issues with slavery or doesn't seem to recognize that spirits are anything other than "amorphous constructs of the Fade" (hence he has no issue with them being enslaved as well).

 

Also - seeing what you're saying I see you've never inquired what Solas has to say when he's accused (by disliked) Inquisitor for, say, giving up on elves (which can be easily done via Youtube). I specifically agree with him when he says "So you attack me, not for failing to have some magical solution, but for not appearing to care? Which is it? Do you wish me to find a way to help elves, or do you wish me to cry, to prove my feelings?"

 

 

That's where I disagree -- it didn't feel like he was confronting them, but merely making an awkward, singular exception tinged with that unsubtle hint that he thinks something of his is what made you superior to others of your kind.

 

"Others of your kind"? The scene plays the same, no matter what "kind" Inquisitor is.

 

If anything, this suggests that Inquisitor is the kind of soul Solas didn't expect to see anywhere in the world, regardless of who they are, in terms of origin.

We're yet to find out what he truly means, really (Cole, Divine in the Fade, Kieran and Flemeth ALSO suggest that Inquisitor is more special, possibly in terms of quality of their soul, compared to others) - but aside from suggesting that Solas has a rather pessimistic outlook when it comes to Thedas and its inhabitants, it doesn't make me think that he assumes things about Inquisitor solely or specifically because of their background. 

 

Also, you're saying it like he keeps maintaining that the orb bestowed 'sugar, spice and everything nice' on Inquisitor, instead of noting that he himself doesn't seem to be convinced by this and never goes beyond theorizing about it beyond that one particular moment (he seems to drop the idea even during that conversation).

 

We also don't know what truly the orb was, aside from the fact that it contains power and knowledge - and we don't even know what that power does or if it specifically belongs to Fen'Harel (and what does THAT mean as well). So going on about how uncool it is that he suggests that the orb warped Inquisitor into his own image is kinda a moot point now, because we can't assume that's what he really means.

[midnight tea]

 

First, it's a really weird criticism that honestly doesn't make any sense to me, yet is stated as a matter-of-fact opinion that we can neither expect explanation for nor contradict. What he says about Leliana, yes, that does make sense. But Cassandra? Her faith is part of the reason why she's working so hard to make the world better. She is not some kind of cloistered nun eschewing contact with this flawed world. Nor is she a hypocrite who only uses her beliefs in situations that benefit her while ignoring it in others. The way she lives her beliefs is part of what makes her an admirable character in my book, not something meriting dismissal.

 

What do you expect to hear in a game where most cut-scenes and explanations take 2-3 minutes, at best? This is exactly why it's important to keep things in context of bigger picture, I remind again. 

 

I've already talked a bit about that particular issue above and in an earlier comment, so I won't be repeating those points. But I've gotta say this - while I really, truly adore Cassandra (she's one of those characters I sometimes wish I could leap through screen to and give a big, friendly hug) I see where Solas is coming from.

 

He's NOT suggesting that she's a cloistered nun eschewing contact with this flawed world - she does, like you say she does. But her faith (or struggles with self to uphold it) still warps her perception of the world to a degree that makes her fail to see the big picture or meddle with it, including times that are can be crucial not just for her, but for others as well, seeing that she's a person in a position of power.

 

It doesn't help that she's an idealist - not a bad quality per se, but one that still makes her put Chantry and her faith on a pedestal she has hard time knocking them over from. She thinks she needs them to pull through.

It's probably best illustrated if you take her to Temple of Mythal. I mean, talk about knee-jerk reaction - she dismisses elven gods as "nonsense" even though she knows nothing about them, she's uncomfortable there to the point of wanting to get out of there as fast as possible, and she disapproves of doing elven rituals - even though it's reasonable to go through with them. Her faith, at this particular moment, has narrowed her vision.

What's interesting is that she approves when we side with Sentinels - so she wants this to solve this peacefully, yet (if she was in the lead) she'd close herself the way to do that.

 

That's not to say that the narrowed vision happens to her all the time - she had many awesome moments where she proves how open-minded and level-headed she is. Her dedication to the truth and being open to possibility that she might be wrong is her saving grace. It's more a matter of healthy balance between all those things, more than anything else - and Cassandra hasn't really hit it, at least not yet.

Since truth often clashes with her idealized version of faith, Chantry and the Maker (and her need for them), it's noticeable how often she tosses and wavers between those things and cold reality. It wears her down and and makes her hang on questions, when the world needs a leader with steadier resolve. (and despite your assumptions that she's I've-got-my-sh*t-together kind of person, she actually deals with a good deal of crippling self-doubt, to a point where at one time she says to Inquisitor "I don't deserve to be here".)

 

Like I mentioned before, she's aware of it (at least somewhat) and even she understands that she's not a person ideal to fill in the position of a leader of changing world order. It's also why Solas thinks that Inquisitor is better as one (of course, only if we do enough things to make him assured that our characters do) and why he admires him/her.

 

Also, I've gotta ask... how is Cassandra's unwavering faith in Herald being sent or guided by Andraste and the Maker any way better than (alleged) assumption that Inquisitor's better qualities were somehow bestowed by the orb? Each of them carries similar suggestion. Plus, if Cassandra is your friend, in her cut-scene she pretty much echoes Solas sentiments when she asks "how many people could do things you did?"

 

 

 

Because one can discuss issue A without also discussing off-topic issues B, C and D. Plus Bull is not a character I like, so I don't spend much time talking to or thinking about him.

 

This is hardly off-topic. Like him or not, Bull is a companion and by interacting with him and not ignoring what he has to say about others (or others about him) is crucial to understand story and characters better. It's especially crucial in a story in this format, or one that provides so many variables and different interactions - and each interaction or choice can reveal a tidbit that adds to the bigger picture, which is something I'm interested in, instead of just judging either a character (especially one as important as Dread Wolf appears to be to the main storyline) or story point based on limited information.

 

 

Several reasons. One, it's a huge issue and a very controversial character. Two, it's highly plot-relevant, much moreso than say Solas' regret over the "old days" (or even the break-up). Three, it always feels off and unsatisfying to me when writers establish something ("this character is immensely sensitive to others' pain and above all else desires to help them"), only to ignore it when it suits them ("but this issue is supposed to be a hidden post-credits surprise so he isn't allowed to pick it up") -- whether it is done deliberately or as a genuine but still glaring oversight.

 

Um... that doesn't really answer my question.

 

 

Which is a big mistake IMO -- especially if they continue their policy of changing protagonists and rendering the old ones irrelevant. Resolving (the majority of) his arc in a new game with a new character will lack the emotional connection (for good or ill) that the we built in this game and with this character

 

... Only we have no idea what will they do with DA4 and we already know that they're not done with DAI yet. In fact, they seem to be working on something now, if twitter and interviews are any indicator.

 

 

A much younger elf, yes. Meaning mistakes from the very distant past, not the recent past or the present.

 

Again, you seem to be intently uncharitable towards the character and assume the worst. You also seem to assume those past mistakes as events separate to what happens now, rather than a continuum.

 

And if you're really so hungry for explicit and straightforward reaction form a character, he does have one in future Redcliffe (part of mage alliance quest).

 

 

Crushed by the loss of his orb when he thought he was so close to recovering it, yes. And regretting the murder of an old friend he's about to commit. But he doesn't hesitate to commit it, nor is he willing to pay the price for his mistakes. He's too important in his own mind for that.

 

Again, an unfairly negative assumption not based on anything that we have available in the game. Why assume that he's too important "in his own mind" only? He says pretty clearly that "the People need him" - and we're yet to find out what he means, what goals he has or what's the deal with lost gods or ancient elves.

 

Also... have you forgotten about "message" from Cole? One through which he says that the fate that awaits him so bad, he wouldn't wish it on an enemy, and that he's expecting to pay for what he does in solitude, forever? Or when he mentions to Inquisitor that he appreciates them fighting for change even if the consequences are grave - a strong indicator that whatever he fights for will eventually cost him very dearly?