266 réponses à ce sujet

[Neleothesze]

It's like he assumes people should accept his ways, if they don't he doesn't like them. He is so stuck in his ways he cannot see that the world has changed around him.

 

Yes, he praises Cassandra for being able to change her views if someone makes a good enough point, but he himself isn't really willing to change. But I, for one, don't hate Solas, as a character. I'm afraid that would be slightly hypocritical as I've often been accused of the same thing.

 

Intransigence isn't a nice flaw to have, but Solas wasn't built as a flawless character. Mr Weekes did his best to create him as a person, so all we DA fans here will either focus on his flaws or on his qualities and whichever side feels closest to our personalities - or how we expect our friends to be - will likely determine if we love/hate the character.

 

I can say that I find Sera incredibly funny, but she isn't a friend. I'd like to be able to like her more. I can't. Somewhere along the way, her flaws weighed more than her qualities (on some inner scales). 

 

We can all try to rationalize our views and most will probably find some very compelling arguments but the bottom line in any of these arguments is that like and dislike are emotion-based verbs (and actions) not based on reason and some people will focus on the flaws (which cannot be denied - based on the approval/disapproval system and in-game dialogue) and some on the qualities (which also cannot be denied, based on the same system and the same dialogue). Both are true at the same time, so both sides will be at least partly correct at the same time.

 

The saddest thing in the end is that this is a character who has (for his own reasons) supported you for a long time, risked his life for you (considering you can take him along on each and every mission) and, in the end, you might be forced to kill him.

 

It's like killing Leliana over the Ashes of Andraste. Whether you agree with her or not, whether you like her or not... it's still a pretty big deal.

[Delphine]

Well, dunno how you guys manage to get hated by him. In all my playthroughs, Solas gives me so much approval all the time, I think me just being capable of breathing is enough for him to like me.

[Urzon]

Well, dunno how you gyuys manage to get hated by him. In all my playthroughs, Solas gives me so much approval all the time, I think me just being capable of breathing is enough for him to like me.

Well... Solas is an old person, and like most stereotypical old people, he always approves when the youngsters ask him about stuff or the olden days.

[Boost32]

And why is it exactly that you don't want that?

because i liked the world before Inquisition, my Inquisitor made sure to bring back the status quo, and now Solas want to undo my work.
And I doubt a person who think his objectives are greater than the innocents who died because of his mistakes and would kill his friends, to gain more power, will stop because I asked him.

[Antergaton]

Yes, he praises Cassandra for being able to change her views if someone makes a good enough point, but he himself isn't really willing to change. But I, for one, don't hate Solas, as a character. I'm afraid that would be slightly hypocritical as I've often been accused of the same thing.

 

Intransigence isn't a nice flaw to have, but Solas wasn't built as a flawless character. Mr Weekes did his best to create him as a person, so all we DA fans here will either focus on his flaws or on his qualities and whichever side feels closest to our personalities - or how we expect our friends to be - will likely determine if we love/hate the character.

 

I can say that I find Sera incredibly funny, but she isn't a friend. I'd like to be able to like her more. I can't. Somewhere along the way, her flaws weighed more than her qualities (on some inner scales). 

 

We can all try to rationalize our views and most will probably find some very compelling arguments but the bottom line in any of these arguments is that like and dislike are emotion-based verbs (and actions) not based on reason and some people will focus on the flaws (which cannot be denied - based on the approval/disapproval system and in-game dialogue) and some on the qualities (which also cannot be denied, based on the same system and the same dialogue). Both are true at the same time, so both sides will be at least partly correct at the same time.

 

The saddest thing in the end is that this is a character who has (for his own reasons) supported you for a long time, risked his life for you (considering you can take him along on each and every mission) and, in the end, you might be forced to kill him.

 

It's like killing Leliana over the Ashes of Andraste. Whether you agree with her or not, whether you like her or not... it's still a pretty big deal.

 

But this is the thing, I see the flaws in some of the other characters yet I don't not like them. Vivienne is a stuck up ****** but she does things for the good of many people, she wants to help those mages who voted against war and end it. She understands that not everything is black or white, templars may have been bad in one circle, doesn't not mean they are in others. Each Templar has a personality and is different. She is also direct in her views, not hiding behind them.

 

Sera is funny, cares for little people the but unguided and irrational. Iron Bull has too much emotion (). Blackwall, well you know. Cole, too intrusive (even if he doesn't know he is being). Characters have flaws but it's Solas' flaws that is the reason he is disliked. The others can change their ways, Solas seems reluctant to.

 

Many would be glad to kill him. Just like I was Anders for basically completely ignoring what my character told him, killing loads of people and betraying our trust.

[Neleothesze]

But this is the thing, I see the flaws in some of the other characters yet I don't not like them. Vivienne is a stuck up ****** but she does things for the good of many people, she wants to help those mages who voted against war and end it. She understands that not everything is black or white, templars may have been bad in one circle, doesn't not mean they are in others. Each Templar has a personality and is different. She is also direct in her views, not hiding behind them.

 

Sera is funny, cares for little people the but unguided and irrational. Iron Bull has too much emotion ( ). Blackwall, well you know. Cole, too intrusive (even if he doesn't know he is being). Characters have flaws but it's Solas' flaws that is the reason he is disliked. The others can change their ways, Solas seems reluctant to.

 

Many would be glad to kill him. Just like I was Anders for basically completely ignoring what my character told him, killing loads of people and betraying our trust.

You see the flaws and are able to get past them when it comes to some characters because something in them calls to you.

 

Please try this thought experiment. Cut 3 of the qualities you listed for Vivienne and then try to imagine her without them. Seriously, spend 3 minutes thinking about it. Would you still like her? That's what I said about some inner scales. What you listed as qualities, in your opinion, outweighs the fact that she's a cunning ****** with a very domineering personality.

 

"Many would be glad to kill him." That's a very true statement placed there to suggest something untrue.

 

Many would be glad to kill him, just as many would be glad to kill Sera, Vivienne or Blackwall. Thread history and the very silly (and funny) "Let's play F,M,K" thread can easily tell you that. A small minority wouldn't mind killing people like Leliana or Varric or Dorian. Fewer still - but still there - would do away with Cassandra or Cullen.

 

(yes, we're all so blood-thirsty when it comes to imaginary beings)

 

"Characters have flaws but it's Solas' flaws that is the reason he is disliked." Obviously, just like Sera's flaws are the reason she is disliked and Vivienne's flaws are the reason some people don't even bother recruiting her anymore. 

 

The point I'm trying to make is that either you ( as a player ) can see beyond the flaws that a writer attributed to a character and focus on the qualities. Or you can't and you hate it. So very few players actually say: I hate a character because he was badly written. They say... I hate/love X because he does Y. But someone meant him to do Y.

 

Someone meant him to be intransigent, bigoted, two-faced, duplicitous, condescending and somewhat of a hypocrite. Just like he was meant to be kind (to individuals he likes), supportive and protective (of individuals he likes), polite and respectful (towards individuals he likes). Emotional manipulation in one direction or another. You just get to choose your poison.

 

If you're said individual he likes, the qualities shine brightly, if you aren't, the flaws mar the character you see even deeper. 

[Dinerenblanc]

To be frank, I thought the cast of characters were wonderfully realized. Sure, I couldn't stand Vivenne's holier than thou personality or Sera's ignorance, but that's just a testament to how well they were written.They all felt like real people, which is rare in video games. Now, I mentioned that I personally don't like Sera, but she's possibly one of the most three dimensional characters in the game. Her struggles of being an elf who grew up with humans and how it lead to her repulsion anything elven was really interesting. Still, I wished they explored the quasi self-hating aspect of her a little more. Even though she was a wonderful character, they didn't do much with it. 

[Neleothesze]

To be frank, I thought the cast of characters were wonderfully realized. Sure, I couldn't stand Vivenne's holier than thou personality or Sera's ignorance, but that's just a testament to how well they were written.They all felt like real people, which is rare in video games. Now, I mentioned that I personally don't like Sera, but she's possibly one of the most three dimensional characters in the game. Her struggles of being an elf who grew up with humans and how it lead to her repulsion anything elven was really interesting. Still, I wished they explored the quasi self-hating aspect of her a little more. Even though she was a wonderful character, they didn't do much with it. 

 

Yes, I wouldn't have minded seeing that aspect explored in her personal quest. Growing up in an alienage (and how that shaped her forceful personality) ... the fact that she outright rejects being seen as an elf (... that just smacks of some internalized racism there... as if elves are somehow lesser than humans... not-people/separate from people... the generic, all encompassing People she wants to be part of) I too think there was a lot of potential in expanding on small bits of the information we can gather about her background.

[Dinerenblanc]

Yes, I wouldn't have minded seeing that aspect explored in her personal quest. Growing up in an alienage (and how that shaped her forceful personality) ... the fact that she outright rejects being seen as an elf (... that just smacks of some internalized racism there... as if elves are somehow lesser than humans... not-people/separate from people... the generic, all encompassing People she wants to be part of) I too think there was a lot of potential in expanding on small bits of the information we can gather about her background.

I couldn't agree more. I wish they gave us the option to enlighten her or at least attempt to enlighten her, but the best you could do is be passive aggressive in your replies. 

 

 

That's how I feel. 

 

Well, except with Iron Bull. I just hate him. I don't love to hate him like I do with Solas or you're saying about Sera.. but hate the concept itself. Heh.. Everything from being a Merc I(ooh, how interesting) to constantly talking about f*cking bores me. I'm not a prude or anything. It's just pedestrian and doesn't intrigue me. That and having little to actually offer on Chantry issues, Inquisition issues, or even magic/elven issues like Solas. He's just a random recruit that doesn't add much to the plot.

Yeah, I agree that he's one of the weaker characters. I like the Qunari angle, but his personality far too "likable." It feels as if they went out of their way to make him that way to counteract the harshness of his Empire. I get what they're trying to do, but it didn't feel natural. He essentially had no flaws, which makes for a boring character. I actually thought his subordinate, Krem, had a far more interesting story to tell. Sadly, he was relegated to a small role.

[Arne Saknussemm]

Solas is a bit of a git granted: persecution complex and unfriendly 

 

Sara is complete scum: quasi communist, impolite, "look at me" neurotic half wit

 

Viviene is a tw*t

 

Would have beheaded all three given the chance

 

[Antergaton]

 

"Characters have flaws but it's Solas' flaws that is the reason he is disliked." Obviously, just like Sera's flaws are the reason she is disliked and Vivienne's flaws are the reason some people don't even bother recruiting her anymore. 

 

Yeah, reading that back, it makes no sense. But flaws are not reasons to not like someone, they are reasons to help them grow. Cole is direct and intrusive but he doesn't mean anything by it, he's trying to help. Over the game the character grows, either one way or another, but still has his helpful nature in tact.

 

What I mean by Solas is that he doesn't (to me at least) grow, his flaws (the list you mentioned) don't seem to change. No one would complain he is badly written, the reason many don't like him is because he is exactly that. His personality is unlikable.

[Heidirs]

Yes, I wouldn't have minded seeing that aspect explored in her personal quest. Growing up in an alienage (and how that shaped her forceful personality) ... the fact that she outright rejects being seen as an elf (... that just smacks of some internalized racism there... as if elves are somehow lesser than humans... not-people/separate from people... the generic, all encompassing People she wants to be part of) I too think there was a lot of potential in expanding on small bits of the information we can gather about her background.

 

If you get her approval up high enough, she takes you out on the roof and talks about cookies with you. After that scene, you are able to ask her a lot more about her background. I didn't get that scene my first playthrough, and I think a lot of people miss it. But it's worth getting. Your understanding of who Sera is really grows after that.

[Fireheart]

I have mixed feelings about Solas. Sometimes I liked him, but then other times his tone of voice was so mean and rude that it made talking to him a chore. It made it even harder for me to romance him. I guess for the most part I don't like him, but I did get his companion quest and he called me his friend, but I don't see it that way.

[Poledo]

It took me about an hour to hate him.. lol.. but not for any mage/templar issues. Just didn't like his vision of the world. I could see the implications right away.

 

I mean, he's a well done character. I don't hate the writing itself. He just triggered some alarms for me once I got to talking to him.

 

I pretty much dislike all of the themes Patrick Weekes tapped into.. be it with spirits when it comes to Solas and Cole. Or Iron Bull in general.

 

Which is funny since Masked Empire was my favorite novel of the bunch.

 

In my current play through, I challenged him on most of his ideals. However you gain approval for each question asked, so unless you are really picking things to lose major points with him on purpose, it's still possible to have him be amiable to you without bowing to his ideals or having to like him. I do love his character though, I think he is superbly written.

 

I'm playing an inquisitor this time who is in it for themselves, and even so you have to be self defeating if you want to make people hate you - I prefer to play to how I think my character would react, picking the most rude response isn't always in character. UNless you are playing strictly to pick the most rude responses and tick a party member off - but then you can't be consistent either.

[Urzon]

Heh.. yeah, it's hard not to gain approval. Someone here once called it "question kink". I'm using that. He gets off on questions.

"Question kink"?  

 

I always personally just called him Grandpa Solas, since I can't help imagining him in a rocking chair with a bowl of hard candies waiting for my Inquisitor to ask him something.

[Forsythia77]

I think that after 4 full playthroughs and one partial one, Solas is my least favorite character.  Sera used to bother me, and sometimes her random thought process still does, but not to the degree that Solas bothers me.  I rather enjoy Sera's party banter, especially with Blackwall, Dorian and Bull. 

 

As for Solas, I've been friends with him twice, including my last playthrough as a Dalish mage who conscripted the Templars and sided with the Wardens.  I think he was my friend in the playthrough where I banished the Wardens too.  In my current playthrough I'm a human male mage and  he was salty with me in haven just for breathing it seems.  I asked him about himself and he gave me the my life is my own dialogue.  So now, I don't talk to him and I don't take him anywhere.  He can just paint his frescoes in his circular room, and I do not care if I have his approval or not this go round.  

[ComedicSociopathy]

I think a big reason why Solas is problematic for some people is because the man quite frankly is incredibly dangerous. I'm talking Corypheus dangerous if you really think about it with his actions having already been indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands. While I don't hate him he reminds me of Anders a character I do hate with a passion. He values his world worldview and vision of how Thedas should be that he forgets to straightforwardly ask the very people he's trying to help whether they are interested in a world without the Veil. 

 

I don't know about you folks but if someone were to fundamentally change the nature of the universe, I would definitely want a warning and a chance to have a referendum of the matter. 

[LOLandStuff]

Solas doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't even think of the consequences. He just goes and does stuff then broods about it.

And all that trickster god thing is another BS the Dalish got wrong. That's some complex ****, and he doesn't strike me as someone who can do complex things considering he failed at it each time.

[Felya87]

He values his world worldview and vision of how Thedas should be that he forgets to straightforwardly ask the very people he's trying to help whether they are interested in a world without the Veil. 

 

 

Solas sayd that he would like an hypotetical world without veil (he have friends among the spirits. Of course he would like to have them in the real world and not only in the fade while sleeping), but he is the first to say that is too much dangerous for both people and spirits, since spirits became deamons because they end up corrupted by the mortals. And he help closing the Veil.

I can't understand where people have taken this idiotic thing Solas want to take away the veil...is just like Iron Bull sayng people would be happier under the qun in banter. no different.

 

He only stated he want to help the people. Who are these people he is referring we still don't know. Can be city/dalish elves, or elves like Abelas and the others elvhen in the Temple.

[Reznore57]

I think a big reason why Solas is problematic for some people is because the man quite frankly is incredibly dangerous. I'm talking Corypheus dangerous if you really think about it with his actions having already been indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands. While I don't hate him he reminds me of Anders a character I do hate with a passion. He values his world worldview and vision of how Thedas should be that he forgets to straightforwardly ask the very people he's trying to help whether they are interested in a world without the Veil. 

 

I don't know about you folks but if someone were to fundamentally change the nature of the universe, I would definitely want a warning and a chance to have a referendum of the matter. 

 

This is my problem as well .

He's set on changing the world somehow but....he hasn't been living in this world for thousand of years.

Dude was sleeping , wakes up , decides he doesn't like it.

He's a bit like Corynoob.Well Solas is a God so he's more dangerous.

 

If he didn't spend his time dismissing Dalish and City elves , I would have a better opinion.

And he wants to bring back something that didn't work out in the first place anyway.

He's all giddy when you tell him restoring the past is your main goal after the well of Sorrow.

Yeah , he doesn't like some stuff about the old world , such as slavery and the Gods being tyrant ...but if he brings all that power back how exactly is he going to keep people from misusing that huge power?(he already messed up with Coryfish and the orb)

He does it himself , he's gathering that old power and wants to change thing without asking anyone about it.

That sucks.

[Texhnolyze101]

because i liked the world before Inquisition, my Inquisitor made sure to bring back the status quo, and now Solas want to undo my work.
And I doubt a person who think his objectives are greater than the innocents who died because of his mistakes and would kill his friends, to gain more power, will stop because I asked him.

 

I hope the part I bolded is just you role-playing a character and not how you actually feel because the world before Inquisition whas terrible especially in regards to the MvT war.

[Boost32]

I hope the part I bolded is just you role-playing a character and not how you actually feel because the world before Inquisition whas terrible especially in regards to the MvT war.

No, I liked the old world, its not role play.
Why people feel the need to judge what others people likes?