266 réponses à ce sujet

[SerendipitousElf]

This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

It was the Grey Wardens' job to renew the seal and not have some renegade crazies thinking they can control Corypheus via blood magic. Hawke was only defending themselves from them since they wanted to use their blood. Besides, Corypheus would've escaped anyway, but it happened sooner because of Janeka.

 

And really, you don't have to be a genius to figure out how dangerous Corypheus is, and that maybe this guy is irredeemable. Solas wasn't deceived, he was in a rush and didn't exactly think of the consequences. I doubt he even thinks things through anyway, proof is all the mess he's gotten "his people" into.

 

He gave him the orb, knowing all too well what he would've done with it. I highly doubt it went something like this:

 

snip >>

 

The fact is that Hawke opened every single seal in that prison and freed Coryface. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that freeing a dark spawn as powerful as Corypheus can be extremely dangerous. 

Hawke should have known better, being a survivor of the blight, but he/she made a real bad judgement (as always) which had dire consequences.

If Hawke was smart and was as capable a fighter as presented in that episode, he/she should have just killed the crazies and left Cory alone in his prison.

 

Could you please give us a reference to prove your statement that Solas knew all too well what Cory would do? According to the wiki, that was not the case.

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Corypheus

 

Solas was as gullible as Hawke was, but that doesn't make either of them a villain.

[Boost32]

Hawke was trapped in the prision, there was no way to scape.

Solas knew who Corypheus was, he needed a powerful mage to unlock the Orb's powers.

[Oxytocin_Alice]

In my first playthrough I spent a lot of time and effort to make Solas like me. Despite his fetish for questions I did find myself randomly upsetting him by seemingly unrelated decisions and once or twice I reloaded saves to avoid his disapproval. In my second run through I found I simply couldn't be bothered with him. My second Inquisitor took the Templar route and approval was really hard to win. Solas rivalry is actually quite fun, though I've not gotten to the stage where I can lamp him yet...

[turuzzusapatuttu]

The fact is that Hawke opened every single seal in that prison and freed Coryface. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that freeing a dark spawn as powerful as Corypheus can be extremely dangerous. 

 

Hawke thought Corypheus was like all the other darkspawns: how could he/she know he would have possessed another body, even after Hawke slew him?

 

 

Hawke should have known better, being a survivor of the blight, but he/she made a real bad judgement (as always) which had dire consequences.

If Hawke was smart and was as capable a fighter as presented in that episode, he/she should have just killed the crazies and left Cory alone in his prison.

 

I'm sure there must be a point, somewhere in the middle of all this hate for Hawke.

[keesio74]

I suppose you can blame both Hawke and Solas for inadvertantly starting the whole thing. But Hawke's goal was to kill Cory while Solas just wanted Cory to help him out.

 

In any case, to me the main difference is that Hawke felt remorse the whole time and was willing to sacrifice himeself to make amends. Solas was preachy and judgemental (which I didn't mind until I found out that he made some bonehead moves of his own)

[SerendipitousElf]

Hawke thought Corypheus was like all the other darkspawns: how could he/she know he would have possessed another body, even after Hawke slew him?

 

 

 

I'm sure there must be a point, somewhere in the middle of all this hate for Hawke.

If Corypheus was so easy to kill, the Grey Wardens would have done so ages ago. Instead they kept him locked in with blood magic, so it should be easy to rationalize that it is not just a matter of simply stab and kill with him.

 

Pray tell how did you come to the conclusion that I hate Hawke?    I don't hate her at all and enjoyed DA2 to some extent giving the limitations of the game. However, I hated the bad writing and the illogical plot that made Hawke (and the player by association) look like a fool most of the time.

[LOLandStuff]

The fact is that Hawke opened every single seal in that prison and freed Coryface. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that freeing a dark spawn as powerful as Corypheus can be extremely dangerous. 

Hawke should have known better, being a survivor of the blight, but he/she made a real bad judgement (as always) which had dire consequences.

If Hawke was smart and was as capable a fighter as presented in that episode, he/she should have just killed the crazies and left Cory alone in his prison.

 

Could you please give us a reference to prove your statement that Solas knew all too well what Cory would do? According to the wiki, that was not the case.

Spoiler

http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Corypheus

 

Solas was as gullible as Hawke was, but that doesn't make either of them a villain.

 

 

Seals that were weakening anyway, unless the Grey Wardens brought in another clean apostate to strengthen them. And Hawke's life and that of his sibling was threatened. And as Boost32 mentioned, they were trapped inside the prison, and all they knew of Corypheus was him being a powerful darkspawn, not one of the magister.

 

Solas knew who Corypheus was, but didn't expect things to get so out of hand. You'd think he'd learned his lesson after he imprisoned the elven pantheon and things went downhill. Instead, he keeps rushing ahead and gets surprised everything turn so horribly wrong.

He doesn't even deny it when Flemeth tells him about the orb is rather obvious he knew from the start who Corypheus was.

 

He doesn't even feel remorse for his actions with the Breach, all he feels sorry about is his stupid orb.

 

Blaming Hawke for Solas' idiotic action is just plain silly and nonsensical.

[In Exile]

While I don't want the Solas story to be resolved in a DLC, I'd sure love some bridging content. The next game will likely not feature the Inquisitor, so I'd really love for the Inquisitor to at least be in on this reveal in a meaningful way, rather than something off-screen or simply not occurring at all.

They could just Hawke it. Or let you play the Inquisitor through a segment - Laidlaw talked about multiple PCs and giving him the benefit of the doubt he doesn't mean co-op that's an option.

[LOLandStuff]

If Corypheus was so easy to kill, the Grey Wardens would have done so ages ago. Instead they kept him locked in with blood magic, so it should be easy to rationalize that it is not just a matter of simply stab and kill with him.

 

Pray tell how did you come to the conclusion that I hate Hawke?    I don't hate her at all and enjoyed DA2 to some extent giving the limitations of the game. However, I hated the bad writing and the illogical plot that made Hawke (and the player by association) look like a fool most of the time.

 

When was the last time Grey Wardens shared anything with anyone?

 

Many of the wardens had no idea they kept prisoner a magister. They didn't even know he existed.

And for Hawke that was just a powerful darkspawn kept locked for research's sake.

[SerendipitousElf]

snip>>

 

Solas knew who Corypheus was, but didn't expect things to get so out of hand. You'd think he'd learned his lesson after he imprisoned the elven pantheon and things went downhill. Instead, he keeps rushing ahead and gets surprised everything turn so horribly wrong.

He doesn't even deny it when Flemeth tells him about the orb is rather obvious he knew from the start who Corypheus was.

 

He doesn't even feel remorse for his actions with the Breach, all he feels sorry about is his stupid orb.

 

Blaming Hawke for Solas' idiotic action is just plain silly and nonsensical.

Where in my posts did I blame Hawke for Solas' actions?

I pointed out that Hawke's actions were just as illogical and silly and that Solas was deceived just as Hawke was. Corypheus was as scheming as ever and he fooled the Wardens, Templars, Seekers, Bianka and the list goes on...

So I am inclined to cut Solas some slack for not being so smart after awakening from 1000 years sleep with no knowledge of the current state of affairs.

 

Of course our opinions would differ depending on how much we like or dislike Solas as a character, so I appreciate your point of view as well.

[LOLandStuff]

I love how people conveniently forget that if not for Hawke's and Co actions - Corypheus wouldn't be an option for Solas to even consider.  Solas would have probably waited until he could power the orb himself.  That would have prevented the destruction at the conclave.

 

There, blaming Hawke's actions because it gave Solas the option of giving his orb.

 

I read this and I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

And just because Solas doesn't spoon feed us bits of trivia, doesn't mean the guy doesn't know. The Inquisition was just a mean to get his orb back. And really, he's just some weak guy on his own, I understand why he joined.

The Wardens started hearing the Calling, he sent an agent to manipulate them. The templars had no purpous and no lyrium. That blue lyrium would've ran out and the trade was controlled by the Chantry. They were desperate addicts. The leader of the Seeker just wanted to see the world burn. Bianca met Larius/Janeka, not Corypheus.

 

You're in denial, I get that. I too was pissed when Solas dumped my Lavellan like some old sock. But liking him doesn't mean I'd go out of my way to find silly excuses. That's not cutting some slack, that's just excusing his actions.

[Inex]

I'm kinda late to the discussion but how could Hawke know Corypheus couldn't be killed by normal means? It was reasonable to assume Cory was imprisoned simply because he was powerful and could control the minds of the wardens. How could Hawke somehow imagine Cory uses the same revival ability as an archdemon when he didn't even know this ability existed? Like someone mentioned above, the grey wardens didn't share anything.

 

And Hawke did the right thing. He was trapped in the prison and the only way out was freeing Cory. Of course freeing this ancient darkspawn could be dangerous to Thedas so Hawke fought him. He could just leave if he didn't care.

 

As for Solas i like him, even if he ends up being evil. I think it was stupid to give the orb to Cory though. Perhaps they made some kind of deal. We still don't know what exactly was Solas planning to do if Cory didn't break the deal.

[SerendipitousElf]

There, blaming Hawke's actions because it gave Solas the option of giving his orb.

 

I read this and I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

And just because Solas doesn't spoon feed us bits of trivia, doesn't mean the guy doesn't know. The Inquisition was just a mean to get his orb back. And really, he's just some weak guy on his own, I understand why he joined.

The Wardens started hearing the Calling, he sent an agent to manipulate them. The templars had no purpous and no lyrium. That blue lyrium would've ran out and the trade was controlled by the Chantry. They were desperate addicts. The leader of the Seeker just wanted to see the world burn. Bianca met Larius/Janeka, not Corypheus.

 

You're in denial, I get that. I too was pissed when Solas dumped my Lavellan like some old sock. But liking him doesn't mean I'd go out of my way to find silly excuses. That's not cutting some slack, that's just excusing his actions.

So you can find an excuse for everyone, but Solas?  Everyone had their agenda, so why couldn't you afford the same courtesy to him?  Is it because you are led to believe that his agenda is evil?  There is no proof of this as of now.

 

There is a cause and an effect, I see it as simple as that the events happened in chronological order.  If Corypheus wasn't freed, the sequential events would have not  happened. You can place the cause however you wish - Hawke, the Wardens - take your pick. That doesn't change the logic.

I am not in denial at all, just proposing a logical thought. Neither did I get so affected as you did when Solas dumped my Lavellan.

[Cha0sEff3ct]

I still can't picture how Solas even gave the orb to Corypheus and how this encounter would've taken place. How would Corypheus know where to find him or vice versa?

 

Is it explicitly explained that he actually "gave" the orb to Corypheus?

 

When Flemeth says, "...you should not have given your orb to Corypheus" I feel like it can be interpreted as Corypheus forcefully took it away somehow. Solas says he was too weak to unlock the power. I feel like he possibly was fighting Corypheus and was defeated and the orb was stolen. So Flemeth in other words could've meant Solas/Dreadwolf should not have let this outcome occur. In addition, they don't seem to recognize each other, well Corypheus at least doesn't recognize Solas end battle. One or both of them had to have appeared to the other in a different form when the orb was given/stolen.

[keesio74]

So you can find an excuse for everyone, but Solas?  Everyone had their agenda, so why couldn't you afford the same courtesy to him?  Is it because you are led to believe that his agenda is evil?  There is no proof of this as of now.

 

There is a cause and an effect, I see it as simple as that the events happened in chronological order.  If Corypheus wasn't freed, the sequential events would have not  happened. You can place the cause however you wish - Hawke, the Wardens - take your pick. That doesn't change the logic.

I am not in denial at all, just proposing a logical thought. Neither did I get so affected as you did when Solas dumped my Lavellan.

 

Solas is clearly not evil to me (at least he hasn't shown anything for me to believe that yet). You can tell his intent is not to bring doom to the world. He made a bonehead move and he felt responable enough to help the inquisition despite being surrounded by some people who were very suspicious of him at first (Cassandra).

 

But as I have already said, it is his attitude that is disappointing. For someone who made a HUGE blunder, he was very critical of others who made mistakes in judgement of less importance.

[Gothfather]

In every play through so far I have always been courteous to Solas and befriended him. My current Inquisitor has preserved the Templar order, became a Templar herself and is romancing Cullen. Whenever I speak to Solas his words are filled with venom, he obviously hates me. I asked him to tell me more about himself and he snaps at me telling me, "why so your Templars can hunt down the apostate mage when this is all over? No, I will stay and help the Inquisition but my life is my own." Solas's intentions are not to help the Inquisition but to retrieve his orb. He is using the Inquisition for his own agenda. All the death and destruction brought on by Corypheus  can be laid at the feet of Solas. Dorian and Viv are now my default mages, I leave Solas back at Skyhold now. He served his purpose for the Inquisition by leading us to Skyhold, now he is of no use to us. 

 

In my first game as a Human noble who did the same things, Solas and I were great friends so... Sure we had a fight over some issues but haven't we all had fights with friends? Doesn't the fact that you have a fight make the Character more "real?" Or do people honestly want all their companions to be yes-men? Is that what people think real friendship is today?

[Sports72Xtrm]

I like him. I can't disagree with the haters more, it seems to me like spite clouds their perception of Solas. He's not a yes man. But his history tells me he saved all of Thedas from being slaves to a bunch of immortal beings who at the time everyone deemed gods by usurping them. He saved society from accepting the slavery, the ritual sacrifices, the holy wars to feed their vanity. And still trusted the mortals to find a better path. He respects people so much, that he trusted them to live their lives with dignity and fought for that. Must be disappointing to see the very same mortals he saved raise up mortals to replace their gods as kings and divines and institutionalize slavery and persecution (alienages and circles), ritual sacrifice (templars and grey warden conscriptions), and holy wars to feed their vanity (exalted marches).

 

To be honest, I think Solas' dislike of his haters is well deserved because a lot of their reasoning make it seem their rationale are those of thoughtless brutes. Was giving the orb to cory a mistake? It's hard to tell with out knowing his end game. Maybe some risks are worth taking to change Thedas' crapsack world. I'm very interested what he'll do to change the world and kind of rooting for him. Anyways, his contributions to the Inquistion- showing them skyhold, helping the inquistior master their powers, helping seal the breach- non can say his contributions were not essential and thus at least he cleaned up his mess if a mess is what he created.

[SerendipitousElf]

Solas is clearly not evil to me (at least he hasn't shown anything for me to believe that yet). You can tell his intent is not to bring doom to the world. He made a bonehead move and he felt responable enough to help the inquisition despite being surrounded by some people who were very suspicious of him at first (Cassandra).

 

But as I have already said, it is his attitude that is disappointing. For someone who made a HUGE blunder, he was very critical of others who made mistakes in judgement of less importance.

Yes, I would agree with you to some extent, although we don't know the circumstances under which he committed this blunder. 

It is also implied that he is an elven god, so he may have a god complex as in "I know better than you and I never fail"?

He did however show remorse in the scene with Mythal in the end.

[KaiserShep]

What's this stuff about Hawke? There's no real comparison there. Hawke was trapped in that prison, a trap set by some Grey Wardens, no less, and the options were either break the seal and attempt to destroy the ancient evil, or simply give up and die in the tunnel. Hawke can never catch a break, man. Every faction from the Kocari Wilds to the Anderfels can actively seek out some way to ensnare her in their crazy shenanigans and it's still her fault. In any case, Corypheus was going to escape anyway, since the seals were weakening. It was just a matter of when. Who knows what Wolfy would've done with this magic 8 ball, but it no doubt would have caused some sort of disaster.

 

Solas, on the other hand, we have no idea what the heck is up with this guy yet. I can take or leave him being an enemy, but I admit that I'll have a good laugh if he turns out to be.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Soals is not featured in the Masked Empire at all. The elf in the book is named Felassan and

Spoiler

is more akin to Abelas than to the dalish and Is killed in the end of the book.

 

The ending of The Masked Empire, Bro. Re-read it. You think I can't tell one elf from another?

 

Masked Empire spoilers:

Spoiler

Felassan keeps comparing Briala to Fan'Harel through out the whole book and it's implied he's talking to Solas in the end when he goes in the fade, before his death, when he goes 'You know, I suspect you'll hate this, but she reminds me of- '.

 

He compares her to Fen'Harel through out the whole book so it's pretty obvious he was going to say she reminds him of Fen'Harel and this probably got him stabbed.

 

Also Mihris the Dalish Elf from Masked Emprie shows up in Dragon Age Inqusition in a Solas inner circle quest. It's a funny coincidence that the dalish Elf that Felassan and Briala last spoke to ends up meeting with Solas.

 

Now the killer of Felassan could be some other Elven God and hates Fen'Harel but I doubt it. Dragon Age wiki says Felassan means 'slow arrow' which is from the story of Fen'Harel when he threw an arrow into the sky to kill a beast. So Felassan is basically Fen'Harels tool.

 

Felassan is probably an Ancient Elf since he loves mocking Dalish and he even says in the epilogue to Mihris that she wouldn't like his clan. Also this quote from Dragon Age wiki is used by Felassan in the book'“We were everyone. There were no humans, no dwarves, no race but the elves.” Pretty strong hint he's an Ancient Elf.

 

Solas seems to love Ancient Elves so he probably used Felassan as his spy.

[Reznore57]

The ending of The Masked Empire, Bro. Re-read it. You think I can't tell one elf from another?

 

Masked Empire spoilers:

Spoiler

Felassan keeps comparing Briala to Fan'Harel through out the whole book and it's implied he's talking to Solas in the end when he goes in the fade, before his death, when he goes 'You know, I suspect you'll hate this, but she reminds me of- '.

 

He compares her to Fen'Harel through out the whole book so it's pretty obvious he was going to say she reminds him of Fen'Harel and this probably got him stabbed.

 

Also Mihris the Dalish Elf from Masked Emprie shows up in Dragon Age Inqusition in a Solas inner circle quest. It's a funny coincidence that the dalish Elf that Felassan and Briala last spoke to ends up meeting with Solas.

 

Now the killer of Felassan could be some other Elven God and hates Fen'Harel but I doubt it. Dragon Age wiki says Felassan means 'slow arrow' which is from the story of Fen'Harel when he threw an arrow into the sky to kill a beast. So Felassan is basically Fen'Harels tool.

 

Felassan is probably an Ancient Elf since he loves mocking Dalish and he even says in the epilogue to Mihris that she wouldn't like his clan. Also this quote from Dragon Age wiki is used by Felassan in the book'“We were everyone. There were no humans, no dwarves, no race but the elves.” Pretty strong hint he's an Ancient Elf.

 

Solas seems to love Ancient Elves so he probably used Felassan as his spy.

 

Spoiler

You have to wonder how many of those ancient elves are still there , just asleep.

It's a bit creepy but it seems the best one could manage to survive forever In Uthenera and didn't need anything. 

Tevinter never managed to find out much about ancient elven lore , I assume what was left of the elven empire was the poor and the slaves.The elite was probably killed or went in hiding(and with the Eluvian Network , they could get in some places no one could reach.)

 

The temple of Mythal was attacked .The temple of Dirthamen was also under some kind of attack after their god went missing, they ended up killing each others.But erf we don't know how many temple they were exactly .

 

Also Mythal's followers assumed she was killed and just kept on with their temple duty .It's not the same story for the others gods who just went poof.

The last thing we need is a bunch of looney ancient elves rescuing Andruil or Falon'Din.

 

[SerendipitousElf]

The ending of The Masked Empire, Bro. Re-read it. You think I can't tell one elf from another?

 

Masked Empire spoilers:

Spoiler

Felassan keeps comparing Briala to Fan'Harel through out the whole book and it's implied he's talking to Solas in the end when he goes in the fade, before his death, when he goes 'You know, I suspect you'll hate this, but she reminds me of- '.

 

He compares her to Fen'Harel through out the whole book so it's pretty obvious he was going to say she reminds him of Fen'Harel and this probably got him stabbed.

 

Also Mihris the Dalish Elf from Masked Emprie shows up in Dragon Age Inqusition in a Solas inner circle quest. It's a funny coincidence that the dalish Elf that Felassan and Briala last spoke to ends up meeting with Solas.

 

Now the killer of Felassan could be some other Elven God and hates Fen'Harel but I doubt it. Dragon Age wiki says Felassan means 'slow arrow' which is from the story of Fen'Harel when he threw an arrow into the sky to kill a beast. So Felassan is basically Fen'Harels tool.

 

Felassan is probably an Ancient Elf since he loves mocking Dalish and he even says in the epilogue to Mihris that she wouldn't like his clan. Also this quote from Dragon Age wiki is used by Felassan in the book'“We were everyone. There were no humans, no dwarves, no race but the elves.” Pretty strong hint he's an Ancient Elf.

 

Solas seems to love Ancient Elves so he probably used Felassan as his spy.

Spoiler

I did note in my post that Felassan is akin to Abelas so I am aware that it is implied he may be an ancient elf.

The rest are your speculations, but it may be just what the writer intended for the reader to do. I hope we get to learn more in a sequel or in the next game.

There are many other speculations about Felassan including the one that Solas is in Felassan's body , but this discussion is derailing from the thread.

Spoiler

http://forum.bioware...n#entry18946651

http://forum.bioware...hes/?p=17534943

[midnight tea]

Uh... it's almost impossible to be on Solas' bad side unless you do everything he disapproves - from main to side-quest choices, dialogue options or judgments (or just doing the main quest and disregarding everything else, but that basically means that most of companions will either hate you or think that you're a Meh-quisitor).

You've gotta give him some credit - he's actually willing to give the Herald, the Inquisition and everyone a large benefit of the doubt, despite (and this is fairly apparent from dialogue and banter) being pretty seriously let down by everything and everyone, possibly even multiple times. His serious trust issues and being all "grim and fatalistic" didn't come out of nowhere - there must've been some serious back-stabbing and trampling over hopes and dreams that happened somewhere in the past; he still hasn't gotten over it.

 

Yet he cares - despite everything, he's either trying to correct his mistakes and goes out and helps people, no matter who they are. That's pretty goddamn admirable.

And though I'm with people who think that his plan for restoring either ancient elves or their gods requires doing something horrrrrrible, at the same time it's fairly apparent that he's expecting to pay the ultimate price for it - he's also seriously conflicted about it. Time will tell whether Inquisitor's actions (romanced, befriended or not) will have any effect on him.

 

Also - it's only after you do enough to ****** him off that he states "Now I know I was right" (basically - you convinced me that everything I've heard, learned and all the biases I've held are justified). And EVEN after that, after events in Temple of Mythal he's able to say to Inquisitor he dislikes that he respects some of his decisions and motivations. If that's not open-mindedness, then I do't know what is.

 

Needless to say, I obviously like him - though that's not saying much, since I like majority of cast in DAI (or at least I see them making many valid points). Even if I didn't, it's hard not to call him an interesting character and marking him as either an innocent victim of circumstances or a ruthless, scheming villain is a disservice to him as well as overall story.

[keesio74]

Was giving the orb to cory a mistake? It's hard to tell with out knowing his end game.

 

Considering both him and Flemeth think it was mistake, I'd say it was. Whatever end game he had, it obviously went arwy and what Cory was doing with the orb was *not* part of his plan.

[TreeHuggerHannah]

I like Solas. I think he's flawed (like every Bioware character I can think of) and a lot of the criticisms of him here are fair, but that makes him more interesting to me, not less so. My Inquisitor liked him too, and she's still hoping he'll come back.

 

I'm now wondering, is it possible to remain friends with Solas even if I side with the Templars and make the grey wardens join me ?

 

Yes. My Inquisitor helped the Templars then allied with them instead of conscripting them, allied with Wardens, and let Morrigan drink from the Well, made Cole more human, stopped Solas from killing the mages during his personal quest (though I did do as he asked regarding the demon,) and on top of all of that had a conversation with him in Haven that took a rather nasty turn and resulted in big approval loss. I was still able to make him a friend through all that, although my Inquisitor had to put in some effort to win him over.

 

In general I found the approval system in Inquisition very forgiving. Far more so than the previous games. My Inquisitor was romancing an advisor, so I didn't specifically have to worry about any particular companion's approval. So my Inquisitor just made the decisions she felt were best, helped citizens whenever she could, spoke to all her companions with respect, and helped them with their personal quests. By the end of the game she was friends with all of them.

 

With Solas she did have to make an effort, like I mentioned - talking to him and making sure she found his artifacts. It wasn't particularly difficult, and it balanced out the approval loss to earn his friendship, although they bonded later in the game than some others she got along with right off the bat.