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[Addai]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

If you invite him to your tent he will waver, and if you say "you seem nervous",  he answers"I am nervous, not that this is anything bad or anything..." At which point you know that deep down he really does think it is bad.  And I believe that part of his inability at the end of the game to fight for his love for the PC (unless hardened) is that he doesn't believe he has a right to be happy.

Ok I'm not sure if you got this part after he asks you "Where do we go from here?" I responded with I really don't know n then I got this: (I initiated the sex scene first)
Alistair: Before we go, I just want to thank you.  No one's ever made me feel this way.  I wasn't... sure it could happen, in fact.

No, I've never heard that line.  Amazing!  I've had at least 3 characters romance Alistair and it's always different.  (My character told him "let's just forget it for now," so I'll have to go back and see what happens if she pushes matters!)  He does say when he's breaking up with you after the LM that he hadn't thought he could ever love someone like he had you, but that's the sort of line you expect and could be taken cheaply.  I hadn't tied it before to his desire for a family/acceptance.

[odiedragon]

Thor Rand Al wrote...
Lol I love your way of thinking... Definitely keep Anora busy away from politics lmao... N def on doing everything I could to produce an heir for Alistair... There has got to be something with all the mages, n magic n stuff out there that can help you to concieve...  I wonder if we will ever hear from Avernus again n if he might be able to come up with something...

I've said it before and I'm sayin' it again here.  There is a simple solution to this.

Wynne.

Though, I do admit, it would be interesting if the solution was a combination of Wynne's spirit healing and Avernus's blood magic...  would she be willing to work with him toward an end that would help ensure peace in Ferelden?

But that's a bit off-topic for this thread.

[Sandtigress]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Ok I'm not sure if you got this part after he asks you "Where do we go from here?" I responded with I really don't know n then I got this: (I initiated the sex scene first)
Alistair: Before we go, I just want to thank you.  No one's ever made me feel this way.  I wasn't... sure it could happen, in fact.

.

He says this in response to you propositioning him to the tent i.e. he was never sure that he'd really find someone to love who loved him back.  Poor thing never really felt like anyone cared for him except Duncan, so I think he's always astonished when someone does care for him.

Makes me feel bad when I play my blood mage who he can't stand.  Even his little sayings when you select him are so depressing because he's mad at Devin.  

[Sandtigress]

errant_knight wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

 It's also a game, and not a book. Some things are supposed to be unpredictable. If every dialogue choice was obvious, the game would be far less interesting.

The issue for me has more to do with believability than predictablity (in fact, I don't recall even making a point about predictability?).

No, that the point I was making, not one that you made. Some lines are purposely obscure as to effect to allow the player to be surprised by the results, and while that line doesn't have the affect that it appears it will have on the surface, there is a wealth on implication in there. It's basically shorthand for a paragraph of dialogue. It tells Alistair that he can't trust people to do the right thing, or to think about people other than themselves which also tells him that he has to look out for himself. It ties into trusting/not trusting Anora to be the kind of ruler that Alistair thinks Fereldan should have. It ties into his expectations of family. It tells him that he has to trust himself to make decisions and not others. it's difficult stuff to fit nicely into a one line dialogue choice, and while rather mean sounding and overly all-encompassing, that line leads to all the decisions that Alistair will have to make in future and points him in a potentially different direction.

I wish they had been able to implement a sort of gradual change of personality system rather than a one-line thing to harden a character, similar to the influence system.  Once you cross a mark after multiple dialog choices, the character is "hardened", so that if you continually push Alistair towards being independent and to stand up for himself, after a certain point he begins to believe it.


But in any case, I think the real "hardening" event in Alistair's life, game play aside, would be the Landsmeet.  Especially in my most recent playthrough with my City elf, he felt incredibly betrayed when she stood for Loghain's redemption (much to my surprise, might I add) and in a sense betrayed his trust in her.  Certainly he was angry afterwards, though she talked him down and he had largely forgiven her by the end of their short talk.  This actually feels more similar to Maric's event than Goldanna ever did.

But its there that he decides that Anora won't hold the thone alone, which feels like a more natural progression of his character after what had just happened than the one line after Goldanna's did.  In Antalya's case, she forced Loghain to atone by surviving and took the final blow herself, and I imagine that that would have been a hard blow to Alistair's character as well, knowing that she sacrificed everything for her country and that he's called to do the same, albeit in a different way.  But those are my random musings walking back from lunch, anyhow. 

Modifié par Sandtigress, 28 janvier 2010 - 07:50 .

[Eruanna Guerrein]

SusanStoHelit wrote...



You know, it's amazing how heart-wrenching we find such decisions - and this isn't even a decision we're required to make ingame. The game made it for us. We're debating whether it was right to do so - and if we should change it if we could. It's like an essay topic at university in comparative morality or something.

Topic: The ethical and emotional implications of morally ambiguous choices and non-choices in a digital, fictional world. Discuss.

Edit: So if I were King or Queen (which I am) I definitely wouldn't change either the secrecy or the Right of Conscription. I'd modify the former a bit, though, as described previously.

What I would do is my male Cousland would do his best to keep Anora continuously pregnant, so she'd spend all her time and energy on the family and leave ruling the kingdom to me, hehe. My female Cousland would do her best to have an heir - and certainly put a lot of effort into trying.

Other things I'd do would be:

The elves would be given equal rights and anyone who abrogated them would be severely punished.

The mages would be freed from supervision by the Templars/Chantry. Instead a body composed of mages and scholars would be set up to study magic and demon possession. And mage training would incorporate the things they learn. A group would be set up who could be called on at need to quell mage problems if they occurred. Each major town would have a squad. They would have templar abilities, but not have been addicted to lyrium, or indoctrinated by the Chantry. They would be trained by warriors and templars in their physical training. And by the mage/scholar body as well. An understanding of magic would be an essential part of their training. And a mage would be assigned in an advisory capacity to each unit.

You're right! I said earlier in this thread that I feel some of the discussions we have here make me grow as a person. It's very similar to how I felt when I was in college. Good stuff!

LOL @ keeping Anora busy with kids. Great plan! I still haven't come up with what I would do with her when I'm queen. I'm still thinking about it though.

I'm totally with you on the elves and mages too. I hate how they are treated. I hadn't thought about putting mages with scholars though. Great plan!



Edited to fix my spelling, which I noticed when someone quoted me, then
noticed said person make a remark I've often said myself, "I wish I had
a red pen to fix other people's posts." /facepalm!! I used to correct
notes from my friends when I was a kid. I really need to start reading
my posts before hitting submit. The public humiliation is just too much
to bear!  lol

Modifié par Eruanna Guerrein, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:22 .

[Eruanna Guerrein]

Sandtigress wrote...

I wish they had been able to implement a sort of gradual change of personality system rather than a one-line thing to harden a character, similar to the influence system.  Once you cross a mark after multiple dialog choices, the character is "hardened", so that if you continually push Alistair towards being independent and to stand up for himself, after a certain point he begins to believe it.


But in any case, I think the real "hardening" event in Alistair's life, game play aside, would be the Landsmeet.  Especially in my most recent playthrough with my City elf, he felt incredibly betrayed when she stood for Loghain's redemption (much to my surprise, might I add) and in a sense betrayed his trust in her.  Certainly he was angry afterwards, though she talked him down and he had largely forgiven her by the end of their short talk.  This actually feels more similar to Maric's event than Goldanna ever did.

But its there that he decides that Anora won't hold the thone alone, which feels like a more natural progression of his character after what had just happened than the one line after Goldanna's did.  In Antalya's case, she forced Loghain to atone by surviving and took the final blow herself, and I imagine that that would have been a hard blow to Alistair's character as well, knowing that she sacrificed everything for her country and that he's called to do the same, albeit in a different way.  But those are my random musings walking back from lunch, anyhow. 

I wish it was more like that too. I kept looking for other dialogue choices that would continue to help him see he plenty to be confident about but none ever arose. It was disappointing.

This seems like a good place to ask, since you brought up the scene. My current play through is a male DC. My plan has been to make this my one and only male character who would make choices I wouldn't normally make. I thought about it long and hard before creating him because I didn't want to make it just about metagaming and earning acheivements but also about role playing.

Anyway, part of my plan included sparing Loghain and hardening Alistair (which I always do) so that he would marry Anora. Some of my choices with Alistair have pissed him off though so I've had a harder time getting him to like me. So, I've done Goldanna, I told him everyone is out for themselves but I haven't been able to get the conversation when he tells me he thinks I was right about that. So I did all I could do, went to the Landsmeet and he runs off, refusing to marry Anora. Do I have to have him like me a certain amount before he will give me the conversation? I was able to get him up pretty high in the end (giving him just about every gift in the game lol). I'm on Xbox so I don't know about like, love, etc... I can just tell you it's about 1/3 of the way into the second to last like bar.  Is not having that conversation why he isn't hardened?

Or could my game be glitched? We did download RtO and it's caused some other problems. Could it be the cause of this one too? If so, I'm definitely going to contact Bioware about not having to pay for it when it's finally released so I can delete it now. I don't want to play the game if I can't harden Alistair.

[Thor Rand Al]

Now that I'm Queen:  Hire Zev (since he stays with my pc out of friendship) n some of his assassin buddies to hunt down Morrigan, torture her then behead her n let her know who ordered her death but take the baby first:devil: ...   Oh n do something about Alistair's gold diggen sister.

[SusanStoHelit]

Eruanna Guerrein wrote...

You're right! I said earlier in this thread that I feel some of the discussions we have hear make me grow as a person. It's very similar to how I felt when I was in college. Good stuff!

Well, before I had to quit, I was lecturing in comparative religion at a university, and marking undergrad papers in same. So, it works for me. I analyse everything, heaven help me, lol. And often feel the need of a red pen to mark people's posts.

I'm totally with you on the elves and mages too. I hate how they are treated. I hadn't thought about putting mages with scholars though. Great plan!

Well, I think the mage one needs more work. But that would be the initial phase of my plan. It could then be modified if and when needed.

All mage children would have to go to a school (or perhaps several) for training and study. But they could go home for holidays (if they were wanted). Haha, shades of Hogwarts. But the idea would be to surround them with other  mages for training and education, peer support and all that, but in a less claustrophobic way.

And it was Dagna who made me think of scholars. People like her, mages or not, who studied things properly. Then pool what you learn. Educate the general population about magic too. Erode the unthinking prejudice against it without minimising the risks it entails. But also give mages a better chance of avoiding possession. The guard units are basically like (darn, I don't know the american equivalent) rescue services, emergency services, whose job is to respond rapidly. And they'd be educated not to be mage haters - but still have the powers to stop mages if necessary.