124 réponses à ce sujet

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

BioWare has been trying way too hard to get me to hate the Dalish lately, tbh. 

[Xilizhra]

Well done. You've really summarized the butchery of the dalish in DA:I.  You left out how their vallasin are actually slave markings.

A somewhat dubious claim when presented out of context.

[Fredward]

I found this chain of missions terrible. If you gonna slaughter the whole family of the protagonist, then let it be recognised by the game. Comments, condolences, stuff like that. Otherwise leave it out. 

 

My primary gripe too. I don't mind so much that they died, it highlighted what a iffy position the elves were in but my quisie was totally shellshocked when he got the report that his entire clan was dead. He scuttled over to go hurl himself into an LIs arms and... nothing. So I reloaded and pretended it never happened. If the game can do so can I.

[Tarlonniel]

The writers have apparently said that they'd like to address it in upcoming content, but I imagine the chances of that actually happening are slim at best.

[congokong]

The writers have apparently said that they'd like to address it in upcoming content, but I imagine the chances of that actually happening are slim at best.

Considering I apparently killed my clan and didn't even realize it I'm not sure I want it addressed. There's a potential dynamic there with "My old life is truly over now. I have nothing to go back to." regarding the Inquisitor staying with the Inquisition, but they blew it. If they were going to kill off the clan it should have been some actual quest.

 

That's an interesting thought actually. Wouldn't it have been nice to have an exclusive quest based on your race? Its length could be similar to companion quests. Something could have been done with Lavellan's clan there.

[Tarlonniel]

Wouldn't it have been nice to have an exclusive quest based on your race?

 

Nice? It would've been fantastic. Invaluable. Engaging. Informative. The single War Table mission we get is... not enough, IMHO.

[esh1996]

A major issue with the war table in inquisition is that it reduced so much potential content to walls of text, eventually I just chose which advisor had the shortest time because I was just getting pissed at how unimportant the missions were. Other than the Vershiel march I can't remember a war table operation actually adding any real content to the game (other than items, potions, mounts or jars of bees). I think that each war table quest line could have ended with a short cut scene/mission (like the verchiel march quest) to make it more important. Imagine your Lavellan visiting the ruined camp of his/her clan, mourning them before vowing revenge...!

[Tarlonniel]

Imagine your Lavellan visiting the ruined camp of his/her clan, mourning them before vowing revenge...!

 

Yep. Would've been great. Or a cutscene of walking into Wycome and having the new governing body - elves and humans united - there to greet Lavellan at the gates. Or anything besides nothing.

[Eliastion]

Well done. You've really summarized the butchery of the dalish in DA:I.  You left out how their vallasin are actually slave markings.

Well, this part actually never bothered me all that much - it was quite obvious that Dalish idealize Elvhenan and frankly? One thing I regret is that fem!Lavellan had no option to laugh into Solas' face and tell the self-important pri.ck that if it were the nobles choosing the markings for a slave based on their preferences, that means that choosing your vallaslin when you come of age is pretty much the statement of you being finally responsible for yourself. Being your own master is kinda the very definition of being free

[Riot Inducer]

Seriously, Inquisition was a running tally of 'we hate the Dalish' on BioWare's part. Two elven companions, both of whom hate the Dalish, this BS war table chain that can get the entire clan wiped out, retconning the Dalish to essentially abandon or 'dispose' of any mage children if they have too many, despite DA2's codex having said that magic is dying out for them and that they move magical children around amongst themselves to preserve that magic and their heritage, learning that elves attacked a human settlement which 'justifies' the Exalted March on the Dales, and then everything at the Well of Sorrows...

 

Basically, Inquisition ends up being a game all about kicking the Dalish around for no good reason and even on a basis that contradicts previous games, and I'm really kind of pissed off about it.

Honestly I'm rather ok with the "Dalish don't know jack about Arlathan" theme since it makes sense. I mean the elves were slaves for a few hundred years so when they got the Dales things were probably already rather warped and now the modern Dalish are picking over scraps of already misinterpreted Dalish Kingdom. Makes sense things would be so off.

 

That said most of the other bits like the mage children thing, and the entire war table chain just feels spiteful against the Dalish. 

 

And the war table quest chain really is a horrid minefield by all accounts. It's entirely possible to have the entire clan wiped out on nearly every stage of it. It really feels like a long and cruel joke honestly. I mean the other race-based war table missions don't have nearly as many steps as the Lavellan one and last I checked none of them could result in the Inquisitor's family being entirely wiped out.  

[Silcron]

I wouldn't say it's a miracle, but you need to use common sense and read your advisors' suggestions. They're usually pretty clear which is right and which is wrong.
 
As for everything else, I totally agree. One day, the Dalish are going to get sick of being slaughtered and take over Thedas, just you wait.

How? At this rate there won't be dalish left. Unless Merril and possibly the Inquisitor decide to try and do that on their own.

[Eliastion]

How? At this rate there won't be dalish left. Unless Merril and possibly the Inquisitor decide to try and do that on their own.

They could start their own clan <wink, wink>

[element eater]

I get the impression from playing 3 games now that bioware just does not want us to like the Dalish basically every game they cause a fuss, get in trouble and then get wiped out.

[MisterJB]

This would have been a great side quest. Interesting topics, different ways of approaching it, divergent and mutually exclusive endings.

 

But no, we place flowers in graves.

[Eliastion]

This would have been a great side quest. Interesting topics, different ways of approaching it, divergent and mutually exclusive endings.

 

But no, we place flowers in graves.

When you think about it, it realy touches on an important subject - how much better would it be if half the side-quests got thrown out the window, replaced by some war table missions changed into side-quests?

I get it that including whole Llavellan clan would require lots of resources, but there were quests that (perhaps changed slightly) wouldn't cost so much. Also, if creation of an origin-specific quest was too expensive, they REALLY could've just opened the missions to other Inquisitors. In this particular instance, it would be much more personal for Dalish Quizzy, but we're dealing with a goddamned city-state that got under Venatori influence, with its ruler putting red lyrium in its wells. Seriously - this isn't just protagonist's private matter, it's incomparably more relevant to Inquisition's main area of interest than hunting dragons or finding out what happened in Crestwood during the Blight!

Or finding great bear hides for an elven clan. Really, the Dalish clan we got to encounter had hardly anything to do with Corypheus, red Lyrium or anything like that. It was just... kinda in the area, that's all. Clan Lavellan, on the other hand, was pretty much actively fighting against Corypheus's allies and (if kept alive) ultimately secured a city-state as a solid ally of the Inquisition, released from Venatori involvement. But no. Our great mission of personally helping the Dalish will be finding that gold goat. Oh, sorry, halla. Little difference since they're goat-sized this game...

[AxholeRose]

I can't tell when nobles are being upfront, hinting at something, whatever in this game. And I thought Leliana was just being paranoid because she's kind of a nutter. There are times Josephine, Leliana, and Cullen give terrible advice and/or make hasty assumptions. I just assumed Leliana believed this women believed the man was Venatori and we should just kill him to be safe.

 

Exactly, Leliana almost always chooses the assassination/elimination route for most of the war table missions, without ever considering the consequences.  It degraded my trust in her.  Cullen isn't that much better either but at least its understandable, given he is a military man.

 

In my first PT i chose Josie for the first quest and failed.  This is probably the hardest war table quest chain in the game.

[congokong]

The side-missions sucking is a common criticism; one I share. Besides being absurdly trivial the majority of the time, there are almost no rpg opportunities. One of the exceptions was I could actually give the proof of Fairbanks' noble birth to him instead of that woman. The opportunities in this game are so lacking compared to DA2 where you not only had dialogue past "investigate," but sometimes choices as well.

 

A lot of untapped potential was wasted in the war room as a wall of text.

[congokong]

Exactly, Leliana almost always chooses the assassination/elimination route for most of the war table missions, without ever considering the consequences.  It degraded my trust in her.  Cullen isn't that much better either but at least its understandable, given he is a military man.

 

That was pretty much my thinking. If it was certain the man was Venatori then Leliana's method should have been the only option. It wasn't certain though. He was Tevinter and at that point in the game people were treating Vints like communists during the Red Scare.

 

Nor did I find Leliana to be morally stable. During her personal quest she slit the throat of an unarmed Chantry sister in the Chantry for serving a grand cleric who opposed the Inquisition. That was pretty cold.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Who doesn't love stepping over dead elves? It's a nation pastime in Orlais and Tevinter. 

[Bad King]

Seriously, Inquisition was a running tally of 'we hate the Dalish' on BioWare's part. Two elven companions, both of whom hate the Dalish, this BS war table chain that can get the entire clan wiped out, retconning the Dalish to essentially abandon or 'dispose' of any mage children if they have too many, despite DA2's codex having said that magic is dying out for them and that they move magical children around amongst themselves to preserve that magic and their heritage, learning that elves attacked a human settlement which 'justifies' the Exalted March on the Dales, and then everything at the Well of Sorrows...

 

To be fair, the whole 'elves attacked first' think isn't set in stone - it's the Chantry narrative of the war. Leliana in DA:O specifically says that she has doubts that this claim is legit, and she is a bard turned lay sister with a sound knowledge of Orlesian and Chantry history and politics.

 

But yeah, some of their writing regarding the Dalish is quite irritating. I particularly disliked it in TME when Michel foolishly unleashed a demon on an entire Dalish tribe (which murdered all of them including the children) and then various protagonists keep parroting "they brought it on themselves". Bunch of psychopaths.

[MisterJB]

You can recover a scroll written by an Emerald Knight which describes the events at Red Crossing.
There were misunderstandings which lead to conflict and a group of Emerald Knights massacring the town.

[The Hierophant]

You can recover a scroll written by an Emerald Knight which describes the events at Red Crossing.
There were misunderstandings which lead to conflict and a group of Emerald Knights massacring the town.

Where at?

[Delphine]

Nor did I find Leliana to be morally stable. During her personal quest she slit the throat of an unarmed Chantry sister in the Chantry for serving a grand cleric who opposed the Inquisition. That was pretty cold.

 

That's because you have hardened Leliana.

There are choices throughout the game, that can unharden Leliana, and when you ask her to not kill Sister Natalie, she will then back off and let go of Natalie, Justinia, and she will stop being a ruthless morally instable person.