124 réponses à ce sujet

[ModernAcademic]

It's also difficult to save the Wardens in a War Table mission.

 

In my gameplays, they always end up being wiped out.

[Eliastion]

Can anyone address the issue I faced that was mentioned in the OP about how Investigate Duke Antoine of Wycome never appeared? I chose Cullen for Protect Clan Lavellan; the previous war table mission. Is it a bug? Does it depend on some other factor like the mage/templar path or choosing someone besides Cullen for the previous mission?

It shouldnt afaik. Unless you manage to get your clan killed, you just need to wait until you advance the main quest a bit for next missions to occur, there shouldn't be any extra requirements.

[Rekkampum]

I always fail that at some point; even after several playthroughs. On my last I got to the very last mission but failed. Normally Leliana was a safe bet but not this time I guess. I could look it up on a strategy guide I suppose.

 

It's a balancing act. You have to alternate between the three of them to suit the occasion and keep yourself ahead of the Venatori without being detected. Otherwise, if you lose too many forces or make too many wrong choices, you'll simply fail the overarching mission. Keeping the advice Tallis gives in mind is also a big clue as to how you should approach the situation.

[congokong]

It's a balancing act. You have to alternate between the three of them to suit the occasion and keep yourself ahead of the Venatori without being detected. Otherwise, if you lose too many forces or make too many wrong choices, you'll simply fail the overarching mission. Keeping the advice Tallis gives in mind is also a big clue as to how you should approach the situation.

Yeah. The last one from Tallis was like, "We need more agents ASAP" and Leliana said she could get a few in without detection. That advice worked in the past when on an earlier playthrough for an earlier mission I chose Cullen and was spotted. This time though Tallis said, "Sorry. We didn't get enough agents." Argh!

[Xilizhra]

Can anyone address the issue I faced that was mentioned in the OP about how Investigate Duke Antoine of Wycome never appeared? I chose Cullen for Protect Clan Lavellan; the previous war table mission. Is it a bug? Does it depend on some other factor like the mage/templar path or choosing someone besides Cullen for the previous mission?

That leads to Break Venatori Hold on Wycome.

 

 

tbh, it's mostly the last one I have issues with.  I usually go with Leliana at the end and still end up losing the Wardens.  Josephine's plan seems like it would take too long and Cullen's plan seems reckless, so Leliana's plan is the most appealing.

 

Unless Josephine's plan is the one that results in the Wardens surviving.  tbh, I'd sooner go with Cullen's plan than Josephine's, even though I think it's reckless.

This is Destroy Darkspawn Outbreak? Both Josephine and Cullen work.

[Rekkampum]

It's also difficult to save the Wardens in a War Table mission.

 

In my gameplays, they always end up being wiped out.

 

I didn't find that very hard honestly, in comparison to the others. I've managed to keep the casualties low and survive, although I wiped them out with the Darkspawn the first time(choose Leliana's method) I tried the missions.

[BronzTrooper]

That leads to Break Venatori Hold on Wycome.

 

 

This is Destroy Darkspawn Outbreak? Both Josephine and Cullen work.

 

No, the very last one.  The one where you have to take a fort that's occupied by Venatori in the mountains (after finding the source of the darkspawn attacks).

[Xilizhra]

No, the very last one.  The one where you have to take a fort that's occupied by Venatori in the mountains (after finding the source of the darkspawn attacks).

Destroy Darkspawn Outbreak actually comes after that mission, but you have to have done all the other ones successfully before it to unlock it. Josephine and Leliana both work for Defeat Marquise Bouffon. Though if Leliana failed for some reason, I did it with Josephine.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I actually like the Lavellan origin quest for the war table. For the simple reason that it requires thinking and careful reading. I did it the first time and saved the Clan with no issues. You have to just put some effort into reading the letters, reading your advisor recommendations and so on. That is not very difficult. 

[DanteYoda]

The whole "disposable elves" thing is getting pretty stale.

You're not wrong..

 

I don't think its just Elves its like everything but humans..

[sandalisthemaker]

I haven't played as a Dalish.  Is this the only war table mission that you can "fail"?

 

I'll admit that I haven't read through each and every war table mission, and at points I just randomly assign advisers and no matter what I still get influence, coin, etc in the end.  

[Eliastion]

I haven't played as a Dalish.  Is this the only war table mission that you can "fail"?

 

I'll admit that I haven't read through each and every war table mission, and at points I just randomly assign advisers and no matter what I still get influence, coin, etc in the end.  

No, there are other chains that can be broken (grey wardens for example) and other where there is one good decision and the rest is unambiguously bad (including a ridiculous example of a mission chain that boils down to a logical riddle... where you can't go back and look at previous clues that are necessary to make a good decision in the end. So unless you keep notes or ask the Internet - too bad for you, you'll be guessing blindly).

 

Lavellan chain just has the most personal, perhaps the most tragic (in "most dead innocent people" sense) but nevertheless completely ignored by the game consequences - which is why people tend to care for it so much more than other minefields.

[BronzTrooper]

Destroy Darkspawn Outbreak actually comes after that mission, but you have to have done all the other ones successfully before it to unlock it. Josephine and Leliana both work for Defeat Marquise Bouffon. Though if Leliana failed for some reason, I did it with Josephine.

 

Ah, well, I never got that one because I went with Leliana for the Marquise operation.  Guess I'll try going with Josephine in my current playthrough.

[Abyss108]

They hinted pretty strongly in the text, which were the correct choices.

[karushna5]

I have played all 4 races (although not a mage human which is a different background?) and I hands down think Qunari are the best War Table missions because they are so likeable and can make you laugh. "Your name is Adaar and you haven't been paid yet!" Sometimes Dwarf can be confusing, wait is this getting lyrium for Templars? I have 2 quests? Wheres the 4th option where I tell you are all wrong? Human is fine nobles are nobles, but the problem with the elf one is it doesn't make sense if they die. Smugglers smuggle and get hurt. Send Mercenaries after demons and in their fit of glee they get hurt. Humans are backbiting nobles. But the whole clan is a family, and while they get hurt there should have been at least as much follow up as Clan is dead, how do you want to deal with it? Advisor A, B, or C?

 

What I wanted most? Someone like Gorim, Fergus, Jowan, or others.

I didn't need to have them everywhere but I wanted to talk with at least 1 of my own people, from where I came from. It would have been nice if the Keeper came over once, or someone would call be a nughumping duster instead of Herald. Or maybe save one of the Ashaads so that we don't run out. 

[Get Magna Carter]

Can anyone address the issue I faced that was mentioned in the OP about how Investigate Duke Antoine of Wycome never appeared? I chose Cullen for Protect Clan Lavellan; the previous war table mission. Is it a bug? Does it depend on some other factor like the mage/templar path or choosing someone besides Cullen for the previous mission?

Not a bug. The missions between "Protect Clan Lavellan" and the final mission depend on who you picked.

The "Investigate Duke Antoine" mission only appears if you picked Leiliana,

You picked Cullen so got different missions (and if you picked Josephine you wouldn't have a clan anymore...)

[Lorien19]

I played a dalish elf and some confusion occurred.

First, apparently at some point there is supposed to be a war table mission called Investigate Duke Antoine of Wycome. This never triggered the entire game. When Protect Clan Lavellan appeared previous I chose Cullen's route. According to the wiki choosing either Cullen or Leliana would trigger Invesigate Duke Antoine of Wycome later. All game I kept wondering if I'd get more clan-related quests yet nothing ever came. Later I learned if I had the misfortune of choosing Josephine for Protect Clan Lavellan they all die. Dodged a bullet there.

More curious, at some point at Skyhold I got the war table operation Break Venatori Hold on Wycome and chose Josephine, which resulted in an alienage being purged with the dalish being next. I didn't know what dalish they referred to and never got another quest. So I went through the game not really knowing what happened to clan Lavellan. After some research I learned of my clan's potential missions and how one wrong move would annihilate them.

Protect Clan Lavellan- Choose Josephine and the clan dies
Investigate Duke Antoine of Wycome- Choose Leliana and the clan dies
Stop Purge of Wycome's Elves- Choose Cullen and the clan dies
Protect Clan Lavellan and Wycome- Choose Josephine and the clan dies
Break Venatori Hold on Wycome- Choose Josephine and the clan apparently dies
Restore Order in Wycome- Choose Cullen and the clan dies

Does Bioware just hate dalish clans? Every game there's an opportunity to wipe them out, and this one requires a bloody miracle not to. Even worse, there's no in-game dialogue that the Inquisitor's clan was murdered, nor any way to avenge them. Additionally strange, would people think committing mass genocide on the Inquisitor's clan would be a smart move?

I have expressed my disapproval for the whole wiping out a whole clan in each game thing,many times before.I get that it might have added some drama to the protagonist's personal arc,but since it isn't recognised by the companions/advisors it's completely and utterly pointless. Not to mention that there are better ways to add drama than a mass genocide,plus I find it rather disturbing that it is possible to happen in every game in the series so far.

[DarthEmpress]

Would've been better if the Lavellan quests were playable...

[Gervaise]

My first playthrough I had the option of sending in Dalish assassins or Cullen's troops.    I thought that using my clan as assassins would likely backfire if they were spotted, so I used Cullen and my clan died.    Thereafter I checked Wiki and subsequent run throughs have followed it to the letter.    I was pretty annoyed that first run through that no one acknowledged my loss, particularly considering my girl has indicated she would eventually like to return to them.    I lost my clan, I discovered everything I had been taught to believe was rubbish and then my boyfriend ditches me.    No wonder my girl was a wreck at the end.

 

Among the list of anti-Dalish there is also that little matter of the halla statue that the Dalish clan in the Exalted Plain want to give to Red Crossing as a peace offering.   The response of advisors is Josephine: blackmail nobility into accepting it; Lelianna: trick the people into thinking it is a spoil of war; Cullen (grudgingly): If it's that important then I suppose we can march the damned Halla in under guard.     I rather suspect this dialogue was written with a human Inquisitor in mind because so far as I was concerned it was "too damned right it's important, send in the troops."   Again, this followed on shortly after my clan had been wiped out.    Clearly my advisors have no sensibilities where my Dalish Inquisitor is concerned.

[Eliastion]

(...)

Among the list of anti-Dalish there is also that little matter of the halla statue that the Dalish clan in the Exalted Plain want to give to Red Crossing as a peace offering.   The response of advisors is Josephine: blackmail nobility into accepting it; Lelianna: trick the people into thinking it is a spoil of war; Cullen (grudgingly): If it's that important then I suppose we can march the damned Halla in under guard.     I rather suspect this dialogue was written with a human Inquisitor in mind because so far as I was concerned it was "too damned right it's important, send in the troops."   Again, this followed on shortly after my clan had been wiped out.    Clearly my advisors have no sensibilities where my Dalish Inquisitor is concerned.

I'm pretty sure it was not a statue, but an actual halla Not that it is some huge difference when it comes to symbols... Also, while we're at this - why would anyone pick any other solution than Josie's? Leliana wants to put up a masquerade that, if seen through, will make both sides really angry and Cullen doesn't really solve the problem - you can't guard the damned halla forever! Josie is the only one that actually accomplishes the job: convinces Red Crossing that they should accept the gift. And she doesn't really blackmail them, she's just exerting influence It's politics, a nudge here, a favor there aaand we have Red Crossing with a halla.

 

Btw, what you were taught wasn't rubbish, you thinking that means that you got under bad influence of Solas who thinks he knows everything but can't even grasp the difference between Vallaslin that you yourself choose to show you're adult and able to take care of yourself and some slave markings of Arlathan, regardless of superficial similarity and one having its roots in the other

Well, when you think about it, letting him remove vallaslin is somewhat symbolic - you just give up your adulthood and being your own master to let that guy think for you

(yeah, I like Solas as a character but I kinda hate his guts, sorry to show it in another thread that isn't even about him )

[Xilizhra]

If anything greatly disappoints me, it's the fact that this whole war table mission chain doesn't even seem to be acknowledged in the Keep.

[Gervaise]

Actually the Vallaslin are also meant to show respect for your patron god that you have selected for yourself.    The rubbish I talked about is that the gods are seen as benevolent guides who care about their followers and taught them their skills.   What is shown in the Temple of Mythal is that the gods were anything but caring, regardless of what Solas says.  Mythal is dead and her followers don't even look upon modern elves as their kin.    Specifically you are told by Abelas emphatically "You are not of my People".   Also he refers to you as Shem.    Why the heck should I want to honour the gods after that or seek to mimic a culture that doesn't want me?   

Then Solas reveals that actually they are slave markings.    I've lost everything else, why not lose them as well and make a clean break of it?     Plus if you don't remove them or are a male Dalish, then Cory helpfully confirms what Solas says.    Mind you, that didn't really bother me since why should I listen to anything he says?   

 

I fully admit my female Dalish was a bit hung up on Solas and too influenced by his good opinion.   My male Dalish are a bit less over awed by the fellow but still pretty disillusioned with the revelations about their "culture" during the course of the game.   By the end they are of the opinion that the Dalish should do more of what the Inquisitor and (saved) clan are doing in co-operating with their human neighbours, forget about recovering their past culture and start to built a new a better future for themselves together with their kin, the city elves.    This has nothing to do with Solas but is their own opinion.    To this end they have put an elf on the throne of Orlais.   It remains to be seen whether the writers allow this to be a success. 

[congokong]

I'm pretty sure it was not a statue, but an actual halla Not that it is some huge difference when it comes to symbols... Also, while we're at this - why would anyone pick any other solution than Josie's? Leliana wants to put up a masquerade that, if seen through, will make both sides really angry and Cullen doesn't really solve the problem - you can't guard the damned halla forever! Josie is the only one that actually accomplishes the job: convinces Red Crossing that they should accept the gift. And she doesn't really blackmail them, she's just exerting influence It's politics, a nudge here, a favor there aaand we have Red Crossing with a halla.

 

Btw, what you were taught wasn't rubbish, you thinking that means that you got under bad influence of Solas who thinks he knows everything but can't even grasp the difference between Vallaslin that you yourself choose to show you're adult and able to take care of yourself and some slave markings of Arlathan, regardless of superficial similarity and one having its roots in the other

Well, when you think about it, letting him remove vallaslin is somewhat symbolic - you just give up your adulthood and being your own master to let that guy think for you

(yeah, I like Solas as a character but I kinda hate his guts, sorry to show it in another thread that isn't even about him )

Out of principle I chose Cullen for that halla quest because I wasn't going to bargain for someone to receive a gift. What good is the gesture if Josephine has to pull so many strings? Honestly though I hated all three options. There should have been a "forget this" option. Yes, you can ignore the mission, but there have been "forget this" responses on other ones. At least Cullen, being the direct sort, just made them deal with it even though soldiers were wasted over a halla.

 

As for Solas, writers have said Solas intended to reveal the truth about himself rather than the vallasin in that cutscene, but lost his courage and mentioned the markings instead. The negative is that many players may not even realize this. I happen to think tattooing your face because your ancestors did is absurd though; including removing them because someone tells you they were something else thousands of years ago. "Oh? Off they go then." And what if Solas was somehow wrong? "Back on they go." It's stupid. When it comes to these types of things I strongly agree with Sera's way of thinking.

 

Solas is aware the dalish do it to honor their ancestors. I'd criticize the dalish' way of thinking more than Solas. Considering their customs, what Solas said held weight. Even though I'd find the whole thing to be ridiculous I was role-playing so I had my dalish remove them because it fit her character and added drama.

[Eliastion]

(...)

I could discuss this arguing why I don't really see the "all you know about your gods and culture is a lie" thing some people complain about as proof for Dalish-hating approach by devs (I do have my problems with those revelations sometimes but they're of a different kind, really ). And I definitely could discuss Solas being an arsehole repeatedly proving his disdain for the elves and elven culture (because it's not the culture of his elves anymore). And I could most definitely complain that an elven Quizzy can't laugh into Solas's face because Vallaslin are most definitely NOT slave markings - they trace their roots to them but that's about it. Justl like Christmas tree comes from pagan tradition, but you wouldn't say that "really it's a pagan symbol", right?

Ok, I said I could argue but I ended up almost going into this discussion, so I'll stop the enumeration of things I could discuss and jump straight to conclusion: I won't, not here. I can see you can put together a coherent argument and we would just derail this thread completely

 

Ok, wait, I'm a weak man, so there's one more thing: working together with shemlens rarely works and it's not the Dalish approach that is the biggest problem And Briala with Gaspard puppet is the worst possible outcome for elves in Orlais in my opinion - I simply see no way in hell how this could end well for them

 

 

If anything greatly disappoints me, it's the fact that this whole war table mission chain doesn't even seem to be acknowledged in the Keep.

In the Keep as in by NPC in Skyhold? This left me really sour when I learned about it, even though I personally managed to keep the clan alive (at least once I knew that making mistakes can kill them; initially I sent Josie because other advisors were busy and I didn't really treat wartable missions seriously at all, most were just "take your irrelevant pick of advisor" up to that point ).

But I must say, your choice of words made me go to Dragon Age Keep to check if Inquisition tapestry is complete. To tell you the truth, I'm a bit curious if they will include this element - it was no quest, you didn't rally play through it... AND it was available only for elves. Frankly, I expect we won't see any changeable world-state element referring to what happened in Wycome. Which will be another insult to the impact this chain should have on both Inquisitor and the world really... but, well, who cares, right? After all, DA:O boons were dropped completely.

[Xilizhra]

In the Keep as in by NPC in Skyhold? This left me really sour when I learned about it, even though I personally managed to keep the clan alive (at least once I knew that making mistakes can kill them; initially I sent Josie because other advisors were busy and I didn't really treat wartable missions seriously at all, most were just "take your irrelevant pick of advisor" up to that point ).

But I must say, your choice of words made me go to Dragon Age Keep to check if Inquisition tapestry is complete. To tell you the truth, I'm a bit curious if they will include this element - it was no quest, you didn't rally play through it... AND it was available only for elves. Frankly, I expect we won't see any changeable world-state element referring to what happened in Wycome. Which will be another insult to the impact this chain should have on both Inquisitor and the world really... but, well, who cares, right? After all, DA:O boons were dropped completely.

 

I actually did mean the Dragon Age Keep. And it's enough of an annoyance for me that I might not even import the elf.