Sera, another character I appreciate as a character and hate as a shallow, bigoted person - not a good recommendation when you say you share her views(...)
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Sera, another character I appreciate as a character and hate as a shallow, bigoted person - not a good recommendation when you say you share her views
I find it curious, however, what's so ridiculous in cultural tradition involving tattooing? I mean, other than the fact that our culture generally doesn't include similar practices, so they are pretty exotic, even alien, for us?
...we really should move to elf support thread or SOMEWHERE where these things wouldn't derail the thread...
You may not like Sera and think sharing her views on elven culture (similar to racial pride) is unrecommended, but I don't see sharing her view as a negative. I think she's right. The whole "our people" thing is a mentality rather than fact; extending or limiting to as many people as you wish.
I'm anti-tradition as in doing something because it's always been done. In my life I don't give a damn what my ancestors, people I never met did, did or who they were. Hence, I wouldn't tattoo my face unless I wanted to.
The Keep is very incomplete so far, we can only guess what things will or won't be acknowledged. Admittedly, I myself guess it won't be acknowledged, but it's just a guess for now. After all, there is this "hidden" slot next to Quizzy when you click on the Inquisitor. It won't be personality as Hawke had nor will it be made sacrifice/lived through it information - so what else? It could possibly be spot reserved for "how did origin-related mission chain resolve". I don't think that's what it's for, but it could beI actually did mean the Dragon Age Keep. And it's enough of an annoyance for me that I might not even import the elf.
The Keep is very incomplete so far, we can only guess what things will or won't be acknowledged. Admittedly, I myself guess it won't be acknowledged, but it's just a guess for now. After all, there is this "hidden" slot next to Quizzy when you click on the Inquisitor. It won't be personality as Hawke had nor will it be made sacrifice/lived through it information - so what else? It could possibly be spot reserved for "how did origin-related mission chain resolve". I don't think that's what it's for, but it could be
The hidden slot next to your Quizz, is what specialisation they chose.
Oh, I don't criticize Sera's views, really. I would just shrug, she's basically a woman-child child that learned to be racist towards her own race, which is pretty tragic, my very pro-elven Dalish First of clan Lavellan just never felt compulsion to convert her to elfyness. But then I learned that she pretty much makes an ultimatum taking relationship with f!quizzy hostage and breaks up unless the latter agrees that the whole of Temple of Mythal thing was just demon lies. I never romanced Sera with any character, just saw it on Youtube and I still wanted to punch this b*tch so hard she would take falling damage in Skyhold. I know it might be unfair to judge something based on a moment of confusion (I do think it was Sera desperately trying to go back to her comfort zone) but I was still utterly disgusted.You may not like Sera and think sharing her views on elven culture (similar to racial pride) is unrecommended, but I don't see sharing her view as a negative. I think she's right. The whole "our people" thing is a mentality rather than fact; extending or limiting to as many people as you wish.
I'm anti-tradition as in doing something because it's always been done. In my life I don't give a damn what my ancestors, people I never met did, did or who they were. Hence, I wouldn't tattoo my face unless I wanted to.
Finding distinct culture and tradition to be a ridiculous concept is somewhat sad, if only for the reason that you can't really run away from culture and tradition, it's just omnipresent, really, beginning with basic stuff like language
How do you know that? There's some info up somewhere?The hidden slot next to your Quizz, is what specialisation they chose.
How do you know that? There's some info up somewhere?
Because I picked the Knight Enchanter tile for my Inquisitor.
That's interesting, I have a couple (like 4 in whole tapestry) seemingly random tiles that are not "hidden" and that's it.Because I picked the Knight Enchanter tile for my Inquisitor.
Oh, I don't criticize Sera's views, really. I would just shrug, she's basically a woman-child child that learned to be racist towards her own race, which is pretty tragic, my very pro-elven Dalish First of clan Lavellan just never felt compulsion to convert her to elfyness. But then I learned that she pretty much makes an ultimatum taking relationship with f!quizzy hostage and breaks up unless the latter agrees that the whole of Temple of Mythal thing was just demon lies. I never romanced Sera with any character, just saw it on Youtube and I still wanted to punch this b*tch so hard she would take falling damage in Skyhold. I know it might be unfair to judge something based on a moment of confusion (I do think it was Sera desperately trying to go back to her comfort zone) but I was still utterly disgusted.
And sorry about your view of tradition
...but that's a topic we DEFINITELY shouldn't discuss here
I've been analyzing that scene a lot, and I think that what it ultimately comes down to is that Sera's terrified that the Inquisitor will leave her or reject her. It wasn't about religion, really, it was more "please don't abandon me," just very poorly expressed.
Oh, I don't criticize Sera's views, really. I would just shrug, she's basically a woman-child child that learned to be racist towards her own race, which is pretty tragic, my very pro-elven Dalish First of clan Lavellan just never felt compulsion to convert her to elfyness. But then I learned that she pretty much makes an ultimatum taking relationship with f!quizzy hostage and breaks up unless the latter agrees that the whole of Temple of Mythal thing was just demon lies. I never romanced Sera with any character, just saw it on Youtube and I still wanted to punch this b*tch so hard she would take falling damage in Skyhold. I know it might be unfair to judge something based on a moment of confusion (I do think it was Sera desperately trying to go back to her comfort zone) but I was still utterly disgusted.
And sorry about your view of tradition
...but that's a topic we DEFINITELY shouldn't discuss here
I certainly don't agree with Sera on everything, but I do on "elfyness." She is ironically racist to other elves, but for different reasons than humans; in her case distaste for their "victim" agenda.
I've tried understanding Sera in that scene after the Temple of Mythal; with or without a romance. When she says, "Mythal is a temple full of demons. I mean, it just makes sense, right?" I noticed how she fidgets as if the possibility of truth to it frightens her. But why? By her logic, what difference does it make if they were demons or something else? It was thousands of years ago. Maybe it's because it threatens her belief in the Maker, although she doesn't come across as very devout.
And yes, there are some elements of culture you have to acquire just to function in the world. Non-essential cultural aspects are my issue; those done out of tradition.
As I see it, it's a lot more complicated than you would like to think(...)
And yes, there are some elements of culture you have to acquire just to function in the world. Non-essential cultural aspects are my issue; those done out of tradition.
But neither am I the right person to discuss it, nor are you likely to really want to discuss this view (in context of a bunch of fictional cultures too). And even if the former two were both true - we're definitely not in the right thread, so I think it would be best to agree to disagree and drop the topic ) I can understand why she did what she did - I don't consider it bad writing. I even feel guilty for considering her a terrible person for that as it was clearly (in my opinion) a moment of weakness, she was just desperately protecting her fragile mind from head-hurting thoughts concerning implications of elven gods actually existing at some point in the past and maybe even now ("some things just DON'T FIT")...
I've been analyzing that scene a lot, and I think that what it ultimately comes down to is that Sera's terrified that the Inquisitor will leave her or reject her. It wasn't about religion, really, it was more "please don't abandon me," just very poorly expressed.
Oh, I don't criticize Sera's views, really. I would just shrug, she's basically a woman-child child that learned to be racist towards her own race, which is pretty tragic, my very pro-elven Dalish First of clan Lavellan just never felt compulsion to convert her to elfyness. But then I learned that she pretty much makes an ultimatum taking relationship with f!quizzy hostage and breaks up unless the latter agrees that the whole of Temple of Mythal thing was just demon lies.
The Dalish racism against City Elves had to have played a part there. And in all fairness, she does have a point when she says that Andrastianism and the Dalish religion can't both be true, because monotheism is the bedrock tenet that the Andrastian faith is based upon. For all her flippancy about things, Sera's faith is too important to her for her to be able to set it aside, and when she was growing up she found a place in the faith of the Chantry that the faith of the Dales never offered her.
So the sad thing is, if the Inquisitor chooses to profess a belief that what they were told in the Temple of Mythal was true, she's making an ultimatum that Sera has to abandon the faith that was her one source of comfort and meaning for too much of her life. It's tragic, but it's also powerful storytelling.
Ok, this thread is really derailed, but I have to respond to thisThe Dalish racism against City Elves had to have played a part there. And in all fairness, she does have a point when she says that Andrastianism and the Dalish religion can't both be true, because monotheism is the bedrock tenet that the Andrastian faith is based upon. For all her flippancy about things, Sera's faith is too important to her for her to be able to set it aside, and when she was growing up she found a place in the faith of the Chantry that the faith of the Dales never offered her.
So the sad thing is, if the Inquisitor chooses to profess a belief that what they were told in the Temple of Mythal was true, she's making an ultimatum that Sera has to abandon the faith that was her one source of comfort and meaning for too much of her life. It's tragic, but it's also powerful storytelling.
Also, as for Sera herself - note that it's her who starts the conversation and demands elven Inquisitor to denounce whatever they saw in Temple of Mythal. And no, she doesn't take any dodgy "I don't know" for answer, she wants to hear Quizzy denouncing everything. It's not Quizzy setting any ultimatum, she doesn't require Sera to accept anything. The only one making demands there is Sera.
There's literally no option to say "I don't know." I'm not sure how fair it is to attack Sera for that.
There's literally no option to say "I don't know." I'm not sure how fair it is to attack Sera for that.
There is the option. Look
Around minute 1:10, when Sera asserts that "Mythal is a ruin full of demons" you have options on the wheel:
- You're insulting our heritage!
- I believe it was all true.
- I agree it was all lies.
and, behold
- But what if even some is true?
But Quizzy suggesting that SOME of what they learned COULD be true is too much for Sera. She says that she shouldn't have begun to like Quizzy, that she knew it was going to come and then she proceeds to beg "Inky" to take back what she said. Just what. The. Hell.
Nothing short of complete renouncement satisfies her. Acknowledging even a possibility that some of that was not "demon lies" is apparently unacceptable for Sera.
There is the option. Look
Around minute 1:10, when Sera asserts that "Mythal is a ruin full of demons" you have options on the wheel:- You're insulting our heritage!
- I believe it was all true.
- I agree it was all lies.
and, behold
- But what if even some is true?
But Quizzy suggesting that SOME of what they learned COULD be true is too much for Sera. She says that she shouldn't have begun to like Quizzy, that she knew it was going to come and then she proceeds to beg "Inky" to take back what she said. Just what. The. Hell.
Nothing short of complete renouncement satisfies her. Acknowledging even a possibility that some of that was not "demon lies" is apparently unacceptable for Sera.
I was referring to the fact that no such option exists in the final binary choice. I feel like the Inquisitor's dialogue options are far too restricted here.
I was referring to the fact that no such option exists in the final binary choice. I feel like the Inquisitor's dialogue options are far too restricted here.
Well, the one demanding binary answer is Sera - so we definitely can blame her for this.
There could be some additional options, true, but they wouldn't change the binary nature of the choice Sera gives her girlfriend: renounce it all as lies and demons or we're done. Don't even accept the possibility or we're done.
Whether the game gives you some third-option clever way out or not, this changes little. I don't say some additional options wouldn't be nice (I don't like the fact that you mention elves in your answer without more race-neutral option that you won't simply close your eyes just because Sera's uncomfortable with what you saw). But regardless of limitations of your answer, Sera completely buried herself with stating - and insisting on - that ultimatum. Emotional blackmail of this sort is simply disgusting and has a flavor of really toxic relationship.
...either way, what do you say about ending this discussion around here? I mean, I think it would be best if I now promise to not answer your next answer. Otherwise I won't be able to stop and we'll keep derailing the thread So, feel free to answer me, but I'll refrain from any further comments about Sera (well, in this discussion at least, the topic will likely come back to me somewhere, sometime, perhaps being less of an offtop then and there ).
I was referring to the fact that no such option exists in the final binary choice. I feel like the Inquisitor's dialogue options are far too restricted here.
Mine was a Qunari and when she started talking about Qunari having horned gods and other nonsense I dumped her.
Or finding great bear hides for an elven clan. Really, the Dalish clan we got to encounter had hardly anything to do with Corypheus, red Lyrium or anything like that. It was just... kinda in the area, that's all.
As a side note: I HATED those elves - even my elf hated them - some of the herbs they wanted were 10 feet away from them. They seemed lazy, and unable to help themselves. Here my elven inquisitor is saving the world, leading the inquisition, and these louts can't even walk 10 feet to pick an herb. *shrug* So yes, I think the writers hate them. Which is okay with me, it's their story to write.
As a side note: I HATED those elves - even my elf hated them - some of the herbs they wanted were 10 feet away from them. They seemed lazy, and unable to help themselves. Here my elven inquisitor is saving the world, leading the inquisition, and these louts can't even walk 10 feet to pick an herb. *shrug* So yes, I think the writers hate them. Which is okay with me, it's their story to write.
Well. To be fair, if you sent half your military to look for these herbs, they would struggle with this epic assignment too
Funny enough I did save the clan in my first try without any walktrough but than again I do read everything.
Mine was a Qunari and when she started talking about Qunari having horned gods and other nonsense I dumped her.
That one was so strange especially if she knows about the Qun from IB. Also you can be extra douchy when romancing her with a Qunari because of the approval and just say to shut it. It is kinda awful romance overall to all races.
Funny enough I did save the clan in my first try without any walktrough but than again I do read everything.
That one was so strange especially if she knows about the Qun from IB. Also you can be extra douchy when romancing her with a Qunari because of the approval and just say to shut it. It is kinda awful romance overall to all races.
I actually did that in another version. I liked her romance because it has a lot of layers to it in comparison to others.
Mine was a Qunari and when she started talking about Qunari having horned gods and other nonsense I dumped her.
Wait, when does that line appear?
Wait, when does that line appear?
It is after the Mythal temple, if you tell her that maybe some of it is true, I think.
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