258 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

It's not dopey, it's the feeling that you're being ripped off. You already paid for the disc but then you have to pay for content that's already on the disc. It's like if you bought a movie on blu-ray that already has special features on the disc, but then you have to pay an additional $10 to unlock them. It feels like a ripoff. The argument can be made that the content wouldn't exist if it weren't for the revenue it will bring in, but then you open the can of worms about resources. Why were they making DLC instead of content for the vanilla game? Why were they making DLC instead of polishing the game? etc.But that wasn't the case so you really have no point.

Would you prefer "irrational" to "dopey"? Actually, that's a better fit anyway, since this is all about feelings rather than dumb thinking. I'll edit the post.

"Wasn't the case? " What case are you talking about? We weren't discussing a particular game. Well, SnakeCode might have been, but he never said which.

[Fireheart]

Hmm, I remember when a moderator announced the dlc here on the forums, everybody was hyped up about how they were bringing back the BE. I myself even believed that what's the moderator meant... And this thread started off with everyone believing the same thing. Then some people come in and start claiming BW never said BE would be included in the patch. Where were these people when BW first announced the beta/BE. Would've saved a lot of headaches and disappointment.

Still, I wonder what the big deal is about the BE, though. In da2, I only ever used it for the mirror. The equipment available in there was waaaaay under leveled for me. Was not useful at all. And besides these two things, what does the BE have to offer? Xenon? But that's it. They could've easily included the mirror in the Inquisitor's room from the beginning, and all the useless equipment be relegated to some random merchant. I never bought anything from merchants at all in my two playthroughs of dai. I always found better stuff from loot.

And also, while I like the idea of the mirror, and was hype about (mis)hearing the return of the BE, I quickly realized... Why do I want to change my character's appearance? Her face is pretty decent already, only thing to change would be the hair, but wait, all the hair choices are crap. So how exactly would the BE benefit me? If/when they release it, I hope they add new hairstyles along with it.

[Kurt M.]

This is madness!

 

Madness? THIS-IS-BIOWARE!! (bam!).

[Lumix19]

Alright, let's try another example directly related to software since my car one didn't sink in. When I upgraded from XP to Vista basic (or whatever that bottom tier was with no aero, etc) I got a disc. Later, I decided I wanted more features from Vista, so I took advantage of their anytime upgrade (DLC) and I got this license I downloaded. Now here's the rub.... the license only unlocked content that was on my ORIGINAL Vista disc. Yes, day one OS upgrades, but only if you paid the appropriate license fee.

Was this horrible of Microsoft? Should I have been entitled to ALL the content on the Vista physical disc simply because I'd paid for the bare bones Vista upgrade? Obviously not, and I knew that at the time that I was only paying for the bare bones upgrade at the time. Just like I knew I was paying extra initially for access to day one DLC with ME3 / Javik.

I swear, if you reply that, yes, I should have been entitled to the top tier Vista upgrade even when only paying for the base one, I'm gonna flood your server with seven zettabytes of porn.


HAVING said all of that, btw, I do think Bioware worded the initial public announcement about patch five and BE quite poorly. It's beyond stupid to talk about lawsuits, but yeah it was worded poorly.

This is a good point. You are only paying for certain content and you should be aware of what content you are getting for the price you pay. The disc is just a medium, a way of giving you the game like Origin or the PSN Store.

[Boogielicious]

I'm just going to leave these here:

 

 

Priority 2 – Features and content

As massive as Dragon Age: Inquisition already is, there were some things the team wanted to get in at launch, but we just ran out of time. We’ll be creating these new features and content and adding them into your game over time because we love our DAI players. Multiplayer will also be receiving regular content updates.

http://blog.bioware....for-dragon-age/

 

 

     Wilhelm's Cottage is located in Redcliffe Village and cannot be viewed without the toolset or use of console commands. This is similar to the world map location Deep Woods accessed via Jowan's Intention, which is another companion that was cut from Dragon Age: Origins before its release. The cottage also contains the Circle Letter, which is reminiscent of A Decades Old Letter found in Wilhelm's Cellar during The Stone Prisoner. The General Store in the village contains the Note of Sale (can only be viewed in the toolset), which then leads to Lloyd, the village bartender. Redcliffe's tavern contains the Golem Control Rod (can only be viewed in the toolset), which is the final bit of evidence that Shale was originally intended as part of the base installation and not downloadable content.

http://dragonage.wik..._Stone_Prisoner

[SurelyForth]

People, this IS Bioware AND EA. This is NOT CD Projekt Red. Do you really think that these two companies are going to give us FREE STUFF ?! Have you been living under a rock ?!

 

Don't get me wrong, I hate this scamming and bullshite as much as any consumer out there but expecting this PARTICULAR developer and publisher to not be CUTTHROATS in the business practices...Is like expecting a politician to be honest and it is like expecting the Grand Game to be fair...

 

Also, good to see some Bioware White Knight Apologists out in full force. Perhaps they are expecting some freebies or thumbs up or validation from Bioware and EA for their apologizing, deflection and excusing of terrible business practices. But, just like the actual White Knight on the internet, their "lady" is not going to give them any goodies and are going to continue messing with them even moar. 

 

EA has been giving Sims 4 players all kinds of free **** since it came out, so...

 

Also, content that "exists" in a shipped game =! finished content that simply needs code unlocked. They still had to do work on Shale and Shale's quest after the discs were pressed. Do they not deserve some sort of compensation for the extra work they did? I mean, it's not like Origins wasn't a fully realized game. 

 

In this case, the Black Emporium is not a make or break component of DAI. The game doesn't grind to a halt if your Inquisitor looks bad in Emprise du Lion's lighting or during cutscenes in the Fade. They were obviously working on the game up until the last minute, so acting like they deliberately left a lot of loose ends so they could cash in on it later is nothing more than hearsay. Now, it is clear that they are working on the Black Emporium now. If they choose to charge for the BE, then it is because they feel like the resources put into it are sufficient enough that monetizing it is necessary, and that is absolutely their right because 1. capitalism and 2. the BE is non-essential. 

 

Signed,

Less of a BW apologist and more someone who is sick of BW fans' epic entitlement issues

[cronshaw]

Hmmm, I am confused. Did the blog/post just mention that the BE was included in the beta patch to be tested but it never was announced to be released along side Patch 5?

Maybe it is still being tested as well to be implemented in future DLC.

That is exactly what it says

but people don't want to hear that

[Raiil]

Hmm, I remember when a moderator announced the dlc here on the forums, everybody was hyped up about how they were bringing back the BE. I myself even believed that what's the moderator meant... And this thread started off with everyone believing the same thing. Then some people come in and start claiming BW never said BE would be included in the patch. Where were these people when BW first announced the beta/BE. Would've saved a lot of headaches and disappointment.

Still, I wonder what the big deal is about the BE, though. In da2, I only ever used it for the mirror. The equipment available in there was waaaaay under leveled for me. Was not useful at all. And besides these two things, what does the BE have to offer? Xenon? But that's it. They could've easily included the mirror in the Inquisitor's room from the beginning, and all the useless equipment be relegated to some random merchant. I never bought anything from merchants at all in my two playthroughs of dai. I always found better stuff from loot.

And also, while I like the idea of the mirror, and was hype about (mis)hearing the return of the BE, I quickly realized... Why do I want to change my character's appearance? Her face is pretty decent already, only thing to change would be the hair, but wait, all the hair choices are crap. So how exactly would the BE benefit me? If/when they release it, I hope they add new hairstyles along with it.

 

 

Given the atrocity that is the lighting in the CC, I think the mirror alone is worth it. My Lavellan is awesome as all hell but she really needs an actual, er, chin. There's RP value, too- in DA2 I used it to give Hawke a tan after adventuring and grow her hair out as the game progressed.

[theflyingzamboni]

@d-boy15 Incorrect, they said and I quoute: "PATCH 5 FEATURING THE BLACK EMPORIUM!" And If it does not, it is false information. However maybe they changed their minds? And chose to seperate it later? If so why didnt they say anything?

Maybe this has been answered already here, but I'll just leave these here, because they address that:

 

1) "As part of the beta, participants will have access to the Black Emporium, a mysterious underground shop run by an immortal proprietor."

 

From the original blog post about the beta. A little vague, but they are saying it was part of the beta program, NOT Patch 5.

 

2) "Please note that the Black Emporium is not part of the patch 5 release. Thanks to the excellent feedback we received from the people in our beta program, we are continuing to work on this feature."

 

From the Patch 5 release blog post. They chose to continue working on it, and have announced that that is the case.

[Steppenwolf]

Alright, let's try another example  directly related to software since my car one didn't sink in.  When I upgraded from XP to Vista basic (or whatever that bottom tier was with no aero, etc) I got a disc.  Later, I decided I wanted more features from Vista, so I took advantage of their anytime upgrade (DLC) and I got this license I downloaded.  Now here's the rub....  the license only unlocked content that was on my ORIGINAL Vista disc.  Yes, day one OS upgrades, but only if you paid the appropriate license fee.
 
Was this horrible of Microsoft?  Should I have been entitled to ALL the content on the Vista physical disc simply because I'd paid for the bare bones Vista upgrade?  Obviously not, and I knew that at  the time that I was only paying for the bare bones upgrade at the time.  Just like I knew I was paying extra initially for access to day one DLC with ME3 / Javik.

Apples and oranges. The operating system has tiers of complexity and usefulness. When you buy the version you want you know what you're getting and why. That isn't the case with a video game. They don't tell you up front that content was developed with the game and adds to the experience but you don't get to use it unless you give them more money. People have to dig into the game files to find out that the content is already in the game, just behind a paywall. Everyone wants more game content, especially if it adds new aspects to customization such. Not everyone needs the most complex version of Windows.

"Wasn't the case? " What case are you talking about? We weren't discussing a particular game. Well, SnakeCode might have been, but he never said which.

Go back and look at my post.

[Dinkledorf]

You have to admit though that "Introducing the DAI Patch 5 Beta program, featuring the Black Emporium" as a title to an announcement clearly indicates that BE is part of Patch 5 or has my English comprehension taken a step back.  Does this not actually mean that they are introducing the DAI Patch 5 Beta program that features the BE?  If it said "Introducing Patch 5 Beta Program And Black Emporium" as a simple change, then it makes it less clear that BE is part of Patch 5.  

 

I personally do not care either way (if BE is free then "thanks" if not then "no thanks"), but I can certainly see and comprehend why some peeps are perturbed.  I know that reading further into the announcement itself the wording gets a little more ... hazy, still the title is the "hook" and sets the tone for a how a lot of readers comprehend the rest.

[Steppenwolf]

A question for all the people who think it was unreasonable to assume the Black Emporium was part of Patch 5: Why won't BioWare say if the Black Emporium is free or not? Numerous people have asked on various outlets, but no answer. Doesn't that seem odd? Almost like, I don't know, something fishy is going on?

[Lumix19]

A question for all the people who think it was unreasonable to assume the Black Emporium was part of Patch 5: Why won't BioWare say if the Black Emporium is free or not? Numerous people have asked on various outlets, but no answer. Doesn't that seem odd? Almost like, I don't know, something fishy is going on?

Depends on what you mean by "fishy". But I don't think it's odd, maybe they haven't decided.

[AlanC9]

.Go back and look at my post.

I just did. It doesn't actually make any sense. What were you trying to say?

Look, I get that this stuff makes you feel bad, and you'd like the companies to keep it off the disk so you don't feel bad. But you're not giving me a reason to feel bad, and you're not really explaining why you feel bad.

[Fredward]

But that's not the same as patch 5 having the Black Emporium in it. Nowhere did it say the Black Emporium would be in patch 5. That is just what people assumed it meant.

 

Yes. And they assumed that because Bioware miscommunicated.

 

EDIT:

 

And this tweet just continues the trend. 'Is not part' does that mean it was NEVER part of the patch? Why just not say 'was not' or 'never was?'

[DarkAmaranth1966]

You have to admit though that "Introducing the DAI Patch 5 Beta program, featuring the Black Emporium" as a title to an announcement clearly indicates that BE is part of Patch 5 or has my English comprehension taken a step back.  Does this not actually mean that they are introducing the DAI Patch 5 Beta program that features the BE?  If it said "Introducing Patch 5 Beta Program And Black Emporium" as a simple change, then it makes it less clear that BE is part of Patch 5.  

 

I personally do not care either way (if BE is free then "thanks" if not then "no thanks"), but I can certainly see and comprehend why some peeps are perturbed.  I know that reading further into the announcement itself the wording gets a little more ... hazy, still the title is the "hook" and sets the tone for a how a lot of readers comprehend the rest.

No, "...PATCH 5 BETA PROGRAM, Featuring the Black Emporium." Not Patch 5 featuring the Black Emporium. to me that clearly say the BE is part of the patch 5 beta program, nothing else, just that it's part of that program. I can, correctly, assume that it would not be beta tested were it not planed for the game but, I can't assume when it will be released.

 

I know a lot of people read more into that than what was actually said by Bioware. People read between the lines, only there was nothing there, they assumed there was is all.

[Steppenwolf]

I just did. It doesn't actually make any sense. What were you trying to say?

Look, I get that this stuff makes you feel bad, and you'd like the companies to keep it off the disk so you don't feel bad. But you're not giving me a reason to feel bad, and you're not really explaining why you feel bad.

 

Dude, what? I was responding to a post about a hypothetical situation in which Awakening were on the Origins disc. Are you having a stroke?

[StrangerPasingBy]

I don't think this is a big deal but I hate it when companies lie to us. Almost every (if not every) article mentions the black emporium with patch 5 and some specifically mention it will come with patch 5. Here's a quote from IGN:

 

Here's a list of a few new features that will show up in the patch:

 

A special underground market run by an undying shopkeeper called the Black Emporium that offers a host of special items and weapons

Players can also change their character's appearance using a magic mirror found only in the Black Emporium

A new key binding system that supports additional mouse buttons

A auto-attack binding for single player

The ability to adjust the size of subtitles

The ability to adjust shader quality for more precise optimization

Party storage is being added to the Undercroft in Skyhold

The ability to change the color of items through the crafting system

 

source:http://www.ign.com/a...or-pc-announced

 

I'm sure there's a reason why they didn't release it but seriously there's no need to try to make others look like the idiot for their lack of coming through with the feature by falsely claiming it was interpreted wrong. What happened is they tried to bring this feature with patch 5 and failed and instead of admitting that they put the blame on the media and of course they edited their blog to say the same. Even if the misinterpretation was true it's still biowares's failure to communicate correctly or emphasize that some features aren't SPECIFICALLY part of Patch 5.

 

DAI is a great game BTW.

[StrangerPasingBy]

No, "...PATCH 5 BETA PROGRAM, Featuring the Black Emporium." Not Patch 5 featuring the Black Emporium. to me that clearly say the BE is part of the patch 5 beta program, nothing else, just that it's part of that program. I can, correctly, assume that it would not be beta tested were it not planed for the game but, I can't assume when it will be released.

 

I know a lot of people read more into that than what was actually said by Bioware. People read between the lines, only there was nothing there, they assumed there was is all.

 

Your comment tells me your willing to defend bioware no matter what. Patch 5 beta program. Seriously? So when patch 6 beta comes out we should assume the features there aren't part of patch 6? Stop fooling yourself because you want to sound like your were the "smart one" that knew what bioware was talking about. It's Bioware's failure to communicate and most likely they intended the black emporium to be a part of patch 5 but for whatever reason it's not. A simple "It isn't ready" is enough and ahead of time would be nice since so many were looking forward to the feature but instead we get a "no it's your fault for not knowing what we says" which is just acting really low.

[LinksOcarina]

Your comment tells me your willing to defend bioware no matter what. Patch 5 beta program. Seriously? So when patch 6 beta comes out we should assume the features there aren't part of patch 6? Stop fooling yourself because you want to sound like your were the "smart one" that knew what bioware was talking about. It's Bioware's failure to communicate and most likely they intended the black emporium to be a part of patch 5 but for whatever reason it's not. A simple "It isn't ready" is enough and ahead of time would be nice since so many were looking forward to the feature but instead we get a "no it's your fault for not knowing what we says" which is just acting really low.

 

They did say that they needed more time on it...so this complaint is really not necessary anymore.

[Robert Trevelyan]

So the Black Emporium didn't make it in, but how about Armour Tints? Did they?

[wolfsite]

So the Black Emporium didn't make it in, but how about Armour Tints? Did they?

They did, they are listed in the patch notes

 

http://blog.bioware....-patch-5-notes/

[wolfsite]

 

I don't think this is a big deal but I hate it when companies lie to us. Almost every (if not every) article mentions the black emporium with patch 5 and some specifically mention it will come with patch 5. Here's a quote from IGN:

 

Here's a list of a few new features that will show up in the patch:

 

A special underground market run by an undying shopkeeper called the Black Emporium that offers a host of special items and weapons

Players can also change their character's appearance using a magic mirror found only in the Black Emporium

A new key binding system that supports additional mouse buttons

A auto-attack binding for single player

The ability to adjust the size of subtitles

The ability to adjust shader quality for more precise optimization

Party storage is being added to the Undercroft in Skyhold

The ability to change the color of items through the crafting system

 

source:http://www.ign.com/a...or-pc-announced

 

I'm sure there's a reason why they didn't release it but seriously there's no need to try to make others look like the idiot for their lack of coming through with the feature by falsely claiming it was interpreted wrong. What happened is they tried to bring this feature with patch 5 and failed and instead of admitting that they put the blame on the media and of course they edited their blog to say the same. Even if the misinterpretation was true it's still biowares's failure to communicate correctly or emphasize that some features aren't SPECIFICALLY part of Patch 5.

 

DAI is a great game BTW.

 

 

 

IGN has been known for making mistakes like this in the past so you can't fault Bioware for the mistake of another........ oh who am I trying to kid of course you can.

[Icy Magebane]

They should go crazy and give us two storage chests    

Two storage chests???  Are you sure the engine can handle that?