200 réponses à ce sujet

[Aran Linvail]

Hey look , alot of player's dont have party banter , they have a bugged mosaic piece in Hinterlands and other bugs , the male elves have broken arms , i have a idea , lets patch exploits and leave the real bugs alone ...

[midnight tea]

You realize that some bugs/exploits are much easier to fix than others? 

[Fyrecaster]

You realize that some bugs/exploits are much easier to fix than others? 

Yes because it is infinitely easier to nerf ("fix") an exploit than it is to actually give a crap and fix a bug......

 

Let's see way to fix a missing mosiac piece bug:

Change the location cooirdinates - oh wait PC modders already pointed out how easy that was to do.... so why cant they do it for the console users?

 

Party banter:

Instead of supposedly "fixing" the bug by altering the ratio of interaction, maybe BW Devs should take a page from CAPCOM and Dragon's Dogma..... of course then players would complain that companions talk TOO MUCH.

[Fireheart]

Reputation Vendor? You mean the dude you can buy power from? They took that exploit out, the one you can buy and then sell back...? Wow, crazy if they did that. Without that dude I never would've made it through my first playthrough. I almost gave up on the game before I found that cheat on YouTube. Now the exploit is gone, I'm scared to start a new playthrough. I don't like being forced to grind for power.

[midnight tea]

Yes because it is infinitely easier to nerf ("fix") an exploit than it is to actually give a crap and fix a bug......

 

You missed my point. By like, the width of a Pacific Ocean. 

[Cheviot]

You missed my point. By like, the width of a Pacific Ocean. 

Don't you dare try to fix that! You can't nerf his interpretation, no matter if it's incorrect!

[Keitaro57]

You missed my point. By like, the width of a Pacific Ocean. 

Okay, I understand. So, after the patch 19, after fixing all the exploits and making the game working exactly the way they want, will they start to fix the bug that doesn't allow some players to even begin DAI?

[Fyrecaster]

You missed my point. By like, the width of a Pacific Ocean. 

 

No, I didn't miss your point, like you I selectively chose to ignore your point in the same manner it appears you chose to ignore others.

 

The key point simply being that they need to stop spending time "fixing" exploits and actually put some time into resolving known bugs.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Look at it from this perspective:

 

An exploit in a Single Player Game is like a hidden "Easter Egg" which can enhance the game for the player and adds to the games replay value.

 

Besides, exploits in a SPG hurts no one, where as if it were an exploit in a Multiplayer Game setting I could understand nerfing it right away.

 

 

All the people clammering for the solution of nerfing trophy achievements if a person chooses to utilize an exploit have a valid point, however, it would be just as prudent for the Developer not to even worry about including achievements. The point here is simply that whether or not choosing to utilize an exploit the Developer created in the first place, should be left up to the individual, and whether the Developer should choose to allow a reward or not for such behavior.

 

Personally I think the true fun of any and all games was lost the moment that Developers added trophies to SPG's. For me I choose an SPG in order to have fun, enjoy a story, and not have to worry about whose e-peen is bigger. Now in the world of MMO gaming, having those trophies does mean something and believe me I enjoy blowing my own horn about what I have achieved or comparing my character to another and saying I have a new goal to meet. However since both portions of DAI are so infinitely different from one another, I personally do not like seeing them take away something in the SPG that in no way affects the MPG version.

[midnight tea]

I didn't ignore any points - I've merely pointed out that some bugs are easier to fix than others, simply from coding perspective. It's true no matter how and what they actually prioritize when they fix things.

 

But no - you prefer to ignore even something so obvious to pointlessly argue about things I didn't even touch...

[Keitaro57]

I didn't ignore any points - I've merely pointed out that some bugs are easier to fix than others, simply from coding perspective. It's true no matter how and what they actually prioritize when they fix things.

 

But no - you prefer to ignore even something so obvious to pointlessly argue about things I didn't even touch...

My point of view : 

Are Patches here to bring easy work for the Devs, have quickly some money, go back to house and have a happy family life?

Or are Patches here to fix a broken unplayable mess selled full price to the now furious customers?

 

It is Patches. If they want to say : we prefer to do the easy work before making the vital work, I'll understand LOT of things about DAI!

 

Dev is a work like the others. Patches are the after-sales services. I've said it already : If a customers payed full price a car whose motor blow up each time he try to start it, he doesn't care if the company work hard on changing the color of the wheel...

[midnight tea]

Where did I even suggest that the devs work is not like any other? Like any other job, it's coming with limitations, priorities as well as complex problems that aren't as simple as replacing a blowing motor on a single car. If anything, your analogy is flawed - we're not dealing with a physical, almost identical products, but with complicated software which work is also affected by our own computers or consoles.

[Icy Magebane]

Yeah, I've never understood why game companies insist on patching exploits and nerfing abilities/weapons/etc. in single player console games but then specifically create ways for PC players to edit their version of the game however they please... I mean, what's the point of doing this and then giving PC gamers access to God Mode through the console and mods?  It's never made any sense to me, but I am thankful that some companies (specifically Bethesda) avoid this... in the past they have been kind enough to leave certain exploits in the console versions of their games so that those players can have a taste of freedom too.  Tbh, I wouldn't mind having access to full blown cheat codes considering how powerful mods are, but I'll take what I can get...

 

And just to clarify, I don't think games are "too hard" and need cheat codes or w/e to finish them... this comment is specifically made to draw attention to the odd practice of patching and nerfing single player games while simultaneously allowing modding of those exact same games...

[Cadeym]

I understand why bioware would want to fix the exploits. I mean, who would want something that they created to be remain flawed if it could be fixed. Then again, the only people that matter are the customers.

 

Gathering game resources can actually be quite fun, but i'm firmly against the concept of having to farm or grind anything in a single player game. I play games to have fun. I get the impression that some people play them because they don't have anything else to do during the day.. or maybe they enjoy farming random game resources.. which would be immensely sad if it was true.

 

edit

 

Oh right, something about achievements. I really don't understand why people care about them in single player games. I mean, in a single player game.. who are you competing with?

[midnight tea]

Uh, comparing PCs to consoles now?

 

PC is not just a gaming console, which is why there's access to more tools and programs in the first place - technically you can mod everything on PC, even if the game is not exactly moddable - it's in the nature of the device. You can also do more in Bethesda game on PC than you can on console.

[MikeFL25]

I understand why bioware would want to fix the exploits. I mean, who would want something that they created to be remain flawed if it could be fixed. Then again, the only people that matter are the customers.

 

Gathering game resources can actually be quite fun, but i'm firmly against the concept of having to farm or grind anything in a single player game. I play games to have fun. I get the impression that some people play them because they don't have anything else to do during the day.. or maybe they enjoy farming random game resources.. which would be immensely sad if it was true.

 

Yes I can see where you are coming from with why Bioware would want to fix the exploits.  However, as many others in this topic have discussed, these exploits are optional and do not affect the rest of the game in a negative way.  Meanwhile, there are still many people who still cannot complete quests, get quests to start, get dialog to play, etc.  Those are much bigger issues that do affect the game in a more serious way, but yet the optional exploits that allow players to skip farming are being targeted and taken out.  I don't see why exploits which are completely optional are demonized and purged while real, tangible issues in the game still exist.  Just my opinion on the matter.

 

As for your second paragraph, I agree entirely.  I don't mind resource gathering in a game once or twice because that is part of the experience.  Key word being "part" of the experience, and not the whole experience.  I did a bunch of legitimate resource gathering and farming in my first two playthroughs.  But what is wrong with allowing the player to "skip" the farming and hours or resource gathering on subsequent playthroughs to get to the fun stuff like crafting and combat?  I have more fun with a game like Skyrim or Dragon Age when I can skip the monotony of farming/mining at my convenience and get right to the story, exploration and action.  Sometimes I don't mind resource gathering, but sometimes I only have an hour to play and would rather PLAY than work on gathering resources.  I am actually dissuaded from playing Inquisition with the thought of all the reputation farming I need to do now that the exploit has been patched.  And to those that say "deal with it, that's how it's meant to be played", I will reiterate:  I have played the game through TWICE legitimately already.  What is the harm in letting players such as myself skip through the grind on subsequent playthroughs?

[Bocochoco]

Derp...bleed on hit don't work. Let's not fix it but change it to stagger instead. They'll think we did some real programming. Oh we need a line item...I know! Remove the exploits by simply removing extra items from chests!

[Teddie Sage]

Bleed on Hit got patched­. Now it's called Sunder and it works.

[Zulfurlubak]

 

As for your second paragraph, I agree entirely.  I don't mind resource gathering in a game once or twice because that is part of the experience.  Key word being "part" of the experience, and not the whole experience.  I did a bunch of legitimate resource gathering and farming in my first two playthroughs.  But what is wrong with allowing the player to "skip" the farming and hours or resource gathering on subsequent playthroughs to get to the fun stuff like crafting and combat?  I have more fun with a game like Skyrim or Dragon Age when I can skip the monotony of farming/mining at my convenience and get right to the story, exploration and action.  Sometimes I don't mind resource gathering, but sometimes I only have an hour to play and would rather PLAY than work on gathering resources.  I am actually dissuaded from playing Inquisition with the thought of all the reputation farming I need to do now that the exploit has been patched.  And to those that say "deal with it, that's how it's meant to be played", I will reiterate:  I have played the game through TWICE legitimately already.  What is the harm in letting players such as myself skip through the grind on subsequent playthroughs?

 

I'd have a suggestion how is it fixable but might look weird at first. Doubt it will be implemented too.

I think you can kill 2 birds with one stone by adding a really hard side-quest boss encounter which would reward you for your next playthroughs with either chest with decent amount of all types of resources to Haven/Skyhold or adding a merchant that would sell all types of crafting resources for a reasonable price. It could add some fun for bored players since there aren't any hard combats around right now and will also make resource grinding less painful on subsequent playthroughs. Actually I can think of many games using the same mechanic with giving player some advantages on his next replay after he has completed the game at least once. Come to think of it, it was used even in DAO where you were getting certain items at start if you finished some DLCs.

[your-friendly-noggin]

I get how frustrating it is to not be able to have everything in the game we bought but exploits are still just that, use them while they exist but don't ever expect them to be permanent, if they weren't intended to be there chances are they will be removed. Duplicating exploits can cause bugs by pushing systems, for example amulets for skill points, too far and this can lead to crashing, damaged saves and all sorts of nasty problems which they can't always predict. Even if it didn't happen to you an easy to fix yet seemingly harmless exploit might be causing someone else trouble by bugging something out, it sucks but I'd rather we suffer poor game design than someone game being bugged out.

Before you leap down my throat about this if it were up to me I'd rather they patch out the exploits when they have changed the system so people don't feel the need to use them.

[Keitaro57]

 

 

 

I'd have a suggestion how is it fixable but might look weird at first. Doubt it will be implemented too.

I think you can kill 2 birds with one stone by adding a really hard side-quest boss encounter which would reward you for your next playthroughs with either chest with decent amount of all types of resources to Haven/Skyhold or adding a merchant that would sell all types of crafting resources for a reasonable price. It could add some fun for bored players since there aren't any hard combats around right now and will also make resource grinding less painful on subsequent playthroughs. Actually I can think of many games using the same mechanic with giving player some advantages on his next replay after he has completed the game at least once. Come to think of it, it was used even in DAO where you were getting certain items at start if you finished some DLCs.

 

It's called new game+ and can even be found on Nintendo DS games. Even Mass Effect 2 had it (on second playthrough you get massive amount of ressources so you have less scanning to do). But well... fixing exploits is the priority for now.

 

Another thing that Bioware fan doesn't think about : We are talking about "A Division of EA"! How long will EA let the Bioware team patch the game? The ME4 is on his way and the fact that a part of the team is still working on a game released the previous year (last century for EA) make them lose money! They lose money! The goddish, heavenly and blessed Money!!! It's a fight against the clock now : the more time they wait, the less chance have the customers to have the biggest issues being fixed. So, if they use their full strength to correct harmless exploits, at some point EA will say : "If it's all about this game, stop working on it! ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL! BRING ME MONEY!"

 

Now, the Bioware team look like they are beating around the bush : they CAN start to work on big issues that prevent a lot of customers to launch the game but stay on the small fry, easy of access and easy to correct. It's the 4th Patch and none of them, so long, correctly fixed a major bug! The last piece of the mosaic is still hidden in his cliff and waiting!

[yaz515]

I admit it was fun having the exploits for amulets of power. I played the 1st (and 2nd) time without using exploits of any kind. But by the 3rd time, as a mage, I really wanted to try having as many abilities as possible. Nevertheless, fixing the exploits hasn't stopped me from wanting to play the game again; however, now...I can't seem to find amulets of power in places where they should be. For example, the Broken Window quest in the Fade (at the Adamant Fortress quest) does not have an amulet of power anymore. Also, the reward you get near the end of the Fade, after you've completed the Dreamers' Fears quest, does not have an amulet of power anymore. Those two amulets of power were meant to be for the inquisitor.

 

Additionally, the amulet of power in Villa Maurel (Emerald Graves) for Vivienne in the "Safe Keeping" quest room is not there anymore. This is really frustrating. It seems they have not actually fixed it, but ruined it altogether. I also read another post somewhere in this forum that states even high dragons are not dropping amulets of power anymore.

 

How can you mess up "fixing" an exploit? At first, I thought this was a bug so I reloaded to see if trying to loot again would change that but nope, there are definitely no amulets of power in those places anymore.

 

So, yeah, that pisses me off.

[Epzaos]

They fix he exploits and they leave the mosaic in the Hinterlands trapped on the ceiling.....

[Sidney]

Fix things that mess up the SP experience...fine. Something that is an exploit/bug I can run across in normal play should be fixed. Something I need to go out of my way to abuse in SP....no. If I choose to make the effort to cheat in the SP game that is my business.

Really I wish there was a new game + mode that enabled a crap ton of cheating and exploits.

[animedreamer]

i havent loaded up DAI in a while,  (2 weeks maybe?) i just got a update i think, but what was in it, i've been trying to track down a thread about it. is it under patch 4 still?

[AlanC9]

Yeah, I've never understood why game companies insist on patching exploits and nerfing abilities/weapons/etc. in single player console games but then specifically create ways for PC players to edit their version of the game however they please...

 

I'm going to speak up for nerfing stuff in SP when appropriate. I like to RP my characters' choice of which items and abilities to use. This is difficult if I've got access to game-breakingly powerful stuff. If I RP, my game becomes dull (unless I'm playing a stupid character who doesn't realize how good the thing is.)

 

Note that this only applies to games with interesting combat. In a TES game I'll happily use anything overpowered I can find, but that's because I find the combat dull anyway, so blowing right through it isn't a problem.

 

And obviously, this has nothing whatsoever to do with exploits. Although I suppose there are grey areas there; I consider putting Force Field on your tank in DA:O an exploit because the AI doesn't react rationally to the situation, but some players see that as just a clever tactic.