This space is dedicated to the discussion, theorycrafting, and head cannoning of all the elven gods.
Also weirdness, reactions gifs, and creeper Solas
As major players in the shaping of Thedas' history, it is only fair ALL of the pantheon should get their due.
Fen'Harel and Mythal have gotten the spotlight in Dragon Age so far, but the current pantheon still locked away are still a source of interest due to their motivations and actions leading up to their entrapment by Fen'Harel.
That being said, it is fair warning that a headcanon of rising popularity paints the ancient gods as glittery, decadent, and otherwise kind of crazy compared to the modern Dalish depictions.
The theme is: glitterotica
This will most likely be the primary topic, although we approve of differing viewpoints and headcanons because we are not Reapers.
Please expect sparkles, glitter, and sass littered among the intellectual and factual discussions.
We appreciate both the serious and the ridiculous.
We will also remind folks that while we can and will get off topic, we do try to follow the general forum etiquette Bioware has given. We cannot guarantee there won't be swearing, gifs, or potentially NSFW materials posted, but we do recommend some self-moderating to determine what is an appropriate level of the bits listed above.
Please try to source fanart posted in this thread out of respect for the artists' time and effort.
Glyphs revealing a temple to Dirthamen [posted by Vierrae]
Spoiler
These are glyphs, revealing the location of Dirthamen's temple.
So, we clearly remember, that Dirthamen bent two ravens, Fear and Deceit, to his will. But I cannot make out mirror and heart part.
The deeper you go...
A hawk and a hare are Andruil's sacred animals, of course, and the sun personifies Elgar'nan. But there is also ancient elven picture with red lyrium corrupted elves and the sun above them. Maybe this glyph is related to Andruil's hunt in The Void.
Moon is Mythal, duh.
Fourth glyph is nothing interesting, it shows Dirthamen on the back of a large crow.
Mosaics + Songs
Spoiler
Song to Elgar'nan
Spoiler
Elgar'nan, Wrath and Thunder,
Give us glory.
Give us victory, over the Earth that shakes our cities.
Strike the usurpers with your lightning.
Burn the ground under your gaze.
Bring Winged Death against those who throw down our work.
Elgar'nan, help us tame the land.
──Song to Elgar'nan, found in the Temple of Mythal, Author unknown
Elgar'nan's Mosaic
Spoiler
Mythal's Mosaic
Spoiler
Song to Falon'Din
Spoiler
The People swore their lives to Falon'Din
Who mastered the dark that lies.
Whose shadows hunger
Whose faithful sing
Whose wings of death surround him
Thick as night.
Lethanavir, master-scryer, be our guide,
Through shapeless worlds and airless skies.
──Song to Falon'Din, found in the Temple of Mythal, author unknown
Falon'Din's Mosaic
Spoiler
Elven Prayer for the Dead
Spoiler
O Falon'Din Lethanvir--Friend to the Dead Guide my feet, calm my soul, Lead me to my rest."
Codex: Lost Temple to Dirthamen
Spoiler
We few whisper here where shadow dwells.
Some words remain unuttered.
Truths are pushed down, down
Where they shall never arise again.
Dirthamen is gone, he said.
Our Highest One brings to us this gravest news.
What shall we do? Where shall we go?
What of the old secrets that burn within our hearts?
They will come for us in the night
Those who could steal the words from our lips
And our god no longer rises to our defense.
We claw at the walls, at the walls.
Now we pray for a dawn that will never arrive.
Our Highest One, he deceives us.
The honeyed words that drip from his tongue
We know the despair they mask.
We disciples of Dirthamen know truth, now as ever.
The Highest One promises safety.
I shall protect our ancient secrets, he claims
All that Dirthamen once granted to us will be safe.
But it is our blood he seeks
A sacrifice dark and unholy
A prison of evil to keep us in and everyone else out.
We will not have it, will not have it!
The secrets are madness in our ears, but they are ours
The Highest One cannot take them from us.
Only Dirthamen, our Keeper, only he
And if he does not take the secrets
They are ours forever.
His mind which cannot think
His tongue which cannot speak
His hands which cannot touch
His ears which cannot hear
His eyes which cannot see
And thus shall our Highest One be bound.
He shall join us in our Silence.
For his heart, for his heart
Our Highest One is bound.
The secret that he keeps, he keeps with us
The vigil that he keeps, he keeps with us
His fear will not weaken us
No-one shall come, dear mentor.
In our eternity, only darkness reigns.
A glimpse of a Stevhen's fan stuff:
(Feel free to pm for your stevhen fan stuff to be added)
Spoiler
Stevhen pushes his cart through the grocery store to pick-up his Hungry-Elf frozen dinner. His cart has a wonky wheel. It squeaks annoyingly and he has trouble maneuvering it. The fluorescent lights burn. Soul-killing, corporate Muzak is playing "I Am the One" as he guides his crappy cart through torrents of turtle-speed elders, spaced-out on elfroot teens, and squealing children who block the aisles. Stevhen grits his teeth and politely excuses himself to the parents parked in the middle of the bread aisle, scolding little Ellehen, who wants a "Melora the Explorer" coloring book. He hates that show. He gets his Hungry-Elf and a box of Antivan wine and makes his way to the check-out, but, of course, all the check-out lanes are full and the lines are long, which is stupid and maddening. He waits in line; in front of him a young elf talking loudly on her phone about some dumb date she had had with some dumb corporate shill. Garish magazine covers with stupid, annoying celebrities and their stupid, annoying problems flank his sides. There is no escape. Anyway, he finally gets to the front of the line, and pays for his food with his gold card. The hollow-eyed cashier tells him to "Have a nice day" in a voice that evokes the inevitability of Death.
As he guides his car through rush-hour traffic, hoping that his groceries don't fall out of the bags and onto the floor, he curses the pick-up truck ahead of him with a "Proud Parent of a Hunter" bumper sticker who keeps abruptly changing speeds.
He just wants to get home and unwind and watch his crime serial so he doesn't have to think about his life.
Rhoxi, nikki-tikki, tsunamitigerdragon et 1 autre aiment ceci
I just heard for the first time that Ghilan'nain and Andruil were supposedly lovers the other day.
Since the gods seem to have been real people at one point or another, I am now headcanoning Ghila as some pacifist animal-whispering forest hippy who's girlfriend was, like, elven Bear Grylls.
The fanfiction writes itself, tbh.
Tayah, Roamingmachine, KonguZya et 4 autres aiment ceci
Just wait, I'll make June the sexiest dwarf with a man-bun you've ever seen. The amount of mesh and glitter his wardrobe required led to the death of at least 50 slaves in blood magic rituals.
I have never been more excited about anythign in my entire life.
He definitely wears a mesh tank, tight booty shorts and combat boots - all in garish colors. Manbun is an amazing addition.
Just wait, I'll make June the sexiest dwarf with a man-bun you've ever seen. The amount of mesh and glitter his wardrobe required led to the death of at least 50 slaves in blood magic rituals.
He has already been put through an intense fitness regime by his buddy Elgar'nan
The one thing that I am most interested to know is the relationship between Elven Pantheon and Old Gods. Are they the very same ? Or are they the anticipations or complements like how the Tribunal was to the Daedric Trio in Morrowind ? Or are they like masculine-feminine forms of one another like in the Hindu gods & goddesses where Vishnu has Lakshmi, Shiva has Parvati and so on ?
Because it seems like Mythal has some ties with the Taint (listen to the dialogue if your Inquisitor drinks from the Well of Sorrows), can shapeshift into a Dragon but she is an Elven god. Then there is also the fact that Solas get really upset with the whole idea of Grey Wardens.
The one thing that I am most interested to know is the relationship between Elven Pantheon and Old Gods. Are they the very same ? Or are they the anticipations or complements like how the Tribunal was to the Daedric Trio in Morrowind ? Or are they like masculine-feminine forms of one another like in the Hindu gods & goddesses where Vishnu has Lakshmi, Shiva has Parvati and so on ?
Because it seems like Mythal has some ties with the Taint (listen to the dialogue if your Inquisitor drinks from the Well of Sorrows), can shapeshift into a Dragon but she is an Elven god. Then there is also the fact that Solas get really upset with the whole idea of Grey Wardens.
I think there is a relationship between the Old Gods and the Elven Pantheon, but what that relationship is, I don't know. I don't think they are going to go the way of masculine/feminine/duelism connection. Because I feel it in my ladybones.
Flemythal has definite ties to the taint. See avatar.
June's mesh shirt. Because of course there would be pockets and elbow patches.
The one thing that I am most interested to know is the relationship between Elven Pantheon and Old Gods. Are they the very same ? Or are they the anticipations or complements like how the Tribunal was to the Daedric Trio in Morrowind ? Or are they like masculine-feminine forms of one another like in the Hindu gods & goddesses where Vishnu has Lakshmi, Shiva has Parvati and so on ?
Because it seems like Mythal has some ties with the Taint (listen to the dialogue if your Inquisitor drinks from the Well of Sorrows), can shapeshift into a Dragon but she is an Elven god. Then there is also the fact that Solas get really upset with the whole idea of Grey Wardens.
I've been thinking about this since the game came out. The best answer I can give you is...I'm not sure
We have some of the constellation codexes directly linking old gods to elven gods (Silentir=Dumat=Mythal and Tenebrium=Lusacan=Falon'din) but not all old gods and elven gods line up.
And then there's Solas who completely freaks out at the thought of killing the Old Gods. He also specifically mentions that there is nothing in lore that connects the 2 groups, which sounds hella suspicious and dodgy (to me at least).
Mythal is definitely connected with the blight, as is Andruil (and possibly Falon'din).
I'm reading stuff that's making me want to draw (or maybe invent, whatever) comparisons between the pantheon and the cast of the Trojan War. So: Odysseus/Fen'Harel (canny and indirect, but also the long-term survivor). Achilles and Patroclus/Falon'Din and Dirthamen is pretty delightful. Like, what are they even doing in that tent, all day? Closer than brothers exactly how? And then, I guess, Agamemnon/Elgar'Nan.
It's harder to parallel the women, for obvious reasons.
I'm sure it makes more sense to do this with the actual Greek gods (and no doubt it's been done), but I think it's worth trying for powerful mortals on epic campaigns, too.This isn't an aside from the glitter topic, either, because don't even tell me that Achilles didn't bathe himself in it.
jellobell, legbamel, Rabbitonfire et 1 autre aiment ceci
I'm reading stuff that's making me want to draw (or maybe invent, whatever) comparisons between the pantheon and the cast of the Trojan War. So: Odysseus/Fen'Harel (canny and indirect, but also the long-term survivor). Achilles and Patroclus/Falon'Din and Dirthamen is pretty delightful. Like, what are they even doing in that tent, all day? Closer than brothers exactly how? And then, I guess, Agamemnon/Elgar'Nan.
It's harder to parallel the women, for obvious reasons.
I'm sure it makes more sense to do this with the actual Greek gods (and no doubt it's been done), but I think it's worth trying for powerful mortals on epic campaigns, too.This isn't an aside from the glitter topic, either, because don't even tell me that Achilles didn't bathe himself in it.
This is my jam. FOR REAL. REAL, REAL.
The Fall of Troy--I have many strong feelings about this particular story. I would love to discuss those feelings.The tragedy of Troy is a tragedy of both a people and a more intimate tragedy of families. And even the winners find tragedy on their doorsteps on their return. No one is unscathed. Hector is the greatest thing ever. EVER. And even in a literary historical perspective, the Fall of Troy asks us questions about how humanity confronts the godhead, how legends get formed around great figures, and how to reconcile a past that you can never get back.
Also the wrath of Achilles is a wrath so potent that it is the fulcrum around which the entire Illiad spins. I would kill for a Wrath of Falon'Din type reckoning.
The one thing that I am most interested to know is the relationship between Elven Pantheon and Old Gods. Are they the very same ? Or are they the anticipations or complements like how the Tribunal was to the Daedric Trio in Morrowind ? Or are they like masculine-feminine forms of one another like in the Hindu gods & goddesses where Vishnu has Lakshmi, Shiva has Parvati and so on ?
Because it seems like Mythal has some ties with the Taint (listen to the dialogue if your Inquisitor drinks from the Well of Sorrows), can shapeshift into a Dragon but she is an Elven god. Then there is also the fact that Solas get really upset with the whole idea of Grey Wardens.
I'm still undecided on whether or not the elven gods are the old gods of Tevinter or opposed to them.
On the one hand, Cole's dialogue (regarding Solas' memories) suggests that he may have imprisoned the creators in the eluvians. If this is the case, then Felassan in TME was likely a servant (like Abelas was) of a trapped elven god that sought the eluvian network pass code from Briala in order to escape. As an admirer of Fen'Harel (who trapped the gods in the first place), Felassan perhaps rebelled against his master, denying him/her the pass code and signed his death warrant as a result - so the old god dragons trapped underground can't be the creators if this is true as the creators are trapped in the eluvians. Then of course there's Solas's dialogue in which he denies any connection between the creators and the old gods (though he could be lying). This perhaps suggests that the old gods are the forgotten ones of elven religion, trapped beneath the earth by Solas who doesn't want them dead for whatever reason.
On the other hand, there are certain things which links the creators and the old gods. The Tevinter Imperium adopted a lot of the ancient elves' culture, including aspects of their cosmology (as evidenced by the astrariums). Of particular interest is that there were nine creators (including Fen'Harel) - remove Mythal and Solas and you have seven left which matches the seven old gods of the Imperium. One astrarium puzzle implies that there may be more old gods since forgotten:
This speculation is fueled by older drawings showing Draconis as more serpentine in appearance, perhaps depicting a sea creature or an unknown eighth Old God that was stricken from historical record. - Codex entry on Constellation: Draconis.
Mythal (Flemeth) takes the form of a serpent when she battles the crazed Andruil:
So Mythal spread rumors of a monstrous creature and took the form of a great serpent, waiting for Andruil at the base of a mountain. - Codex entry on the Elven God Andruil.
So the creators could plausibly be the old gods, particularly regarding the dragon link. But if this is true, then what are the forgotten ones? My guess would be that they are beings relating to the taint and red lyrium. Andruil apparently hunted them in their home: the void, implying a location deep underground, and she constructed 'void armour' which drove her insane (perhaps it was red lyrium armour like Samson's). So if the creators are the old gods, the forgotten ones could plausibly be related to the origin of the taint (long prior to the attempted apotheosis of the Tevinter magisters and the origins of the darkspawn) and red lyrium - the primeval thaig from DA2 could be related to them, and perhaps they tainted the golden city prior to the magisters' arrival there (which explains Corypheus' insistence on the city already being blackened when they arrived there). Blood magic might be the anti-taint - a weapon of the creators against the forgotten ones - this might be why it worked in removing the taint from Merrill's shard and why Morrigan used it in the dark ritual to purify the Archdemon's soul. Andruil was also a god related to blood sacrifice.
Dermain, Path Of Sorrows, modernfan et 1 autre aiment ceci
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