1435 réponses à ce sujet

[Kestrel]

Real talk, I think this week just happens to be kind of crazy for a lot of people. I think because it's sort of nearing spring break and a lot of people are involved in academia in various ways? 

[Giton]

Is this thread still alive?

I'm here--with Stevhen. We are currently reliving his glory days at Arlathan's premier disco: Studio 56.

 

[vierrae]

Concerning ancient elves

 

Spoiler

Elvhen resemble spirits, as pictured by The Chantry lore - immortal people and, as I suspect it, rigid, unable to evolve as a mortal race would. If you have all ertenity at your disposal, why change at all? I can draw several parallels between this codex and Arlathan's history: spirits=elves, Golden City=Arlathan, humans=Par Vollen's humans, who brought quickening.

 

On dwarves, red lyrium and the profane

 

Spoiler

Nothing actually coherent, but I can link this codex entry with "whispers in the red lyrium"

 

This one is also rather curious, and implies, how lyrium corruption might have spread, because Valdasine is found in Primeval Thaig.

And during my DA2 walkthrough I was somewhat surprised to find out, that the piece of red lyrium idol summoned ethereal golem in Bartrand's house. There was also some profane in Cory's prison. Big huh.

 

On elven pantheon - Fen'Harel

 

Spoiler

Where should I start... Remember these strange stone tablets with symbol of rebellion? They are also used as gravestones. This makes no sense, I'd rather put something Falon'Din related there, no? But I remember something about FH feasting on spirits of the dead, so maybe he and Falon'Din kind of shared portfolios. 

 

On elven pantheon - Dirthamen

 

Spoiler

These are glyphs, revealing the location of Dirthamen's temple.

 

So, we clearly remember, that Dirthamen bent two ravens, Fear and Deceit, to his will. But I cannot make out mirror and heart part. 

 

The deeper you go...

A hawk and a hare are Andruil's sacred animals, of course, and the sun personifies Elgar'nan. But there is also ancient elven picture with red lyrium corrupted elves and the sun above them. Maybe this glyph is related to Andruil's hunt in The Void. 

 

Moon is Mythal, duh.

 

Fourth glyph is nothing interesting, it shows Dirthamen on the back of a large crow.

[Maria13]

Concerning ancient elves

 

Spoiler

Elvhen resemble spirits, as pictured by The Chantry lore - immortal people and, as I suspect it, rigid, unable to evolve as a mortal race would. If you have all ertenity at your disposal, why change at all? I can draw several parallels between this codex and Arlathan's history: spirits=elves, Golden City=Arlathan, humans=Par Vollen's humans, who brought quickening.

 

On dwarves, red lyrium and the profane

 

Spoiler

Nothing actually coherent, but I can link this codex entry with "whispers in the red lyrium"

 

This one is also rather curious, and implies, how lyrium corruption might have spread, because Valdasine is found in Primeval Thaig.

And during my DA2 walkthrough I was somewhat surprised to find out, that the piece of red lyrium idol summoned ethereal golem in Bartrand's house. There was also some profane in Cory's prison. Big huh.

 

On elven pantheon - Fan'Harel

 

Spoiler

Where should I start... Remember these strange stone tablets with symbol of rebellion? They are also used as gravestones. This makes no sense, I'd rather put something Falon'Din related there, no? But I remember something about FH feasting on spirits of the dead, so maybe he and Falon'Din kind of shared portfolios. 

 

On elven pantheon - Dirthamen

 

Spoiler

These are glyphs, revealing the location of Dirthamen's temple.

 

So, we clearly remember, that Dirthamen bent two ravens, Fear and Deceit, to his will. But I cannot make out mirror and heart part. 

 

The deeper you go...

A hawk and a hare are Andruil's sacred animals, of course, and the sun personifies Elgar'nan. Something's going on here, I tell you.

 

Moon is Mythal, duh.

 

Fourth glyph is nothing interesting, it shows Dirthamen on the back of a large crow.

 

Wow! Thanks for this... LOTS to think about!

 

Well done.

[vierrae]

Wow! Thanks for this... LOTS to think about!

 

Well done.

You're very welcome! But I'm not nearly done 

[electricfish]

I'm thinking the mirror is in Fear's talons, and the heart is in Deceit's. They are both tools and metaphors for Dirthamen's tactics in acquiring secrets, or parts of his personality.

The mirror shows a person what their inner fears are.  The mirror can reflect reality, or distort it.

The heart can easily be deceived through emotional manipulation. 

Using both together compromises both the head and the heart, making it easy for Dirthamen to bend others to his will or sway their beliefs to by sympathetic to his own.

 

<edit> I'm adding those glyph bits to the OP. Interesting that Andruil, Mythal, possible Falon'Din (as the crow) are featured as symbols one must find to enter this temple. 

[vierrae]

I'm thinking the mirror is in Fear's talons, and the heart is in Deceit's. They are both tools and metaphors for Dirthamen's tactics in acquiring secrets, or parts of his personality.

The mirror shows a person what their inner fears are.  The mirror can reflect reality, or distort it.

The heart can easily be deceived through emotional manipulation. 

Using both together compromises both the head and the heart, making it easy for Dirthamen to bend others to his will or sway their beliefs to by sympathetic to his own.

 

<edit> I'm adding those glyph bits to the OP. Interesting that Andruil, Mythal, possible Falon'Din (as the crow) are featured as symbols one must find to enter this temple. 

Thank you, I've been struggling to put this together. But metaphors and iconography don't mix well with my English being second language.

[Meer]

Of the ancient glyphs that vierrae has posted, I found the one about the hawk and hare chasing the sun rather interesting.
I've always liked the theory that the pantheon was tearing itself apart, and it's my belief we'll only see three of them (other than Fen'Harel): Andruil, Dirthamen, and Falon'din. What I gleaned from that particular glyph is that perhaps Andruil (whose beloved animals are both the hawk and hare) targeted Elgar'nan (whose symbol, as we know, is the sun). It is also possible she allied with him, but because Andruil is the goddess of hunt and the context includes the word "chase" specifically, I don't think so. Perhaps what these refer to is actually a portion of what happened just before these gods were thrown down.

Also I love electricfish's analysis of the heart and mirror. There's a lot to think about here.

[vierrae]

Of the ancient glyphs that vierrae has posted, I found the one about the hawk and hare chasing the sun rather interesting.
I've always liked the theory that the pantheon was tearing itself apart, and it's my belief we'll only see three of them (other than Fen'Harel): Andruil, Dirthamen, and Falon'din. What I gleaned from that particular glyph is that perhaps Andruil (whose beloved animals are both the hawk and hare) targeted Elgar'nan (whose symbol, as we know, is the sun). It is also possible she allied with him, but because Andruil is the goddess of hunt and the context includes the word "chase" specifically, I don't think so. Perhaps what these refer to is actually a portion of what happened just before these gods were thrown down.

Also I love electricfish's analysis of the heart and mirror. There's a lot to think about here.

It is very possible. Plus, there is almost no information regarding Elgar'Nan's role in elven pantheon, he was all-father, but it seems, that Mythal did all the ruling. Both he and June are dark horses.

[electricfish]

Chasing the sun can also mean Andruil is a total daddy's girl and wants his approval. She is goddess of the Hunt, and goddess of Sacrifice. Both are bloody affairs that can get dark real quick, which she hoped would please Elgar'nan. Sacrificing of elves or hunting down those as revenge for transgressions he had dominion over, along with the normal beasts and stuff to be hunted. 

Weapon of mass destruction with the power of light (or...stars? Aka, the sun?) that Andruil crafted? Probably related to Elgar'nan in some fashion. Either stealing his power, or he granted some of it in a rare display of affection for his child.

 

The flip side is that Andruil lusted after his power, or part of his portfolio. The Hunt and Sacrifice wanting dominion over vengeance, or manipulation of the sun's power/light for herself. WMD still kind of applies here. Stolen, rather than gifted sun power.

[Maria13]

Of the ancient glyphs that vierrae has posted, I found the one about the hawk and hare chasing the sun rather interesting.
I've always liked the theory that the pantheon was tearing itself apart, and it's my belief we'll only see three of them (other than Fen'Harel): Andruil, Dirthamen, and Falon'din. What I gleaned from that particular glyph is that perhaps Andruil (whose beloved animals are both the hawk and hare) targeted Elgar'nan (whose symbol, as we know, is the sun). It is also possible she allied with him, but because Andruil is the goddess of hunt and the context includes the word "chase" specifically, I don't think so. Perhaps what these refer to is actually a portion of what happened just before these gods were thrown down.

Also I love electricfish's analysis of the heart and mirror. There's a lot to think about here.

 

Or perhaps Elgar'nan fell victim to the plague Andruil brought back from the void... Or she slew him in one of her fits of madness.

[vierrae]

I still think there is clearly the sun symbol in this fresco. We know so little, why not entertain the idea of Elgar'Nan's being the reason of red lyrium corruption among elves?

Aaaand their faces kind of look like circle of magi's symbol. Maybe I read too much into it.

EDIT: Or maybe it's not even red lyrium corruption. May as well be red vallaslin, like in TLC.

Spoiler

 

EDIT2: there is also a very peculiar shield, which can be obtained after Gaxkang boss battle in DAO. It's called Fade Wall and bears an image of Dread Wolf, I believe. Its description reads: "This shield is charged with arcane energy. The user is infused as though otherworldly, but suffers a vague sense of disconnection that is very hard to shake".

Spoiler

[vierrae]

Collection of thoughts on elven mythology, eluvians and DA2 plot

 

Spoiler

Personally, I think people tend to overcomplicate things with even gods and the Forgotten Ones. I regard Forgotten Ones as simply spirits (or demons). They used to pester elves, who were vulnerable for possesion due to magical talent. Elven gods, on the other hand, were more powerful mages, dreamers, who were able to walk and shape the Fade, as well as battle these spirits. These abilities elevated them from common folk and gave certan power.

Solas is fascinated with spirits and, as we know, that Fen'Harel walked freely both with his people and the Forgotten Ones. This may also explain his comment on being in the Fade physically for the first time, because I see no reason, why he would venture there before, aside from during his sleep.

 

What bugged me in DA2 Merril plot is her Keeper's behaviour. She specifically stated, that ancestors meant Merril's eluvian to be forgotten, and I believe it's not because it was tainted, but because it leads somewhere dangerous. Marethari was well-versed, even for a Keeper, it seems, she knew exactly who Flemeth was, knew how to restore her. It is known, that during Arlathan Keppers were not leaders, but rather priests, who served as archivists. So there is distinct possibility some of them preserved pieces of knowlege

[nikki-tikki]

Andruil's lullaby to Falon'Din. 

 

[Sable Rhapsody]

What bugged me in DA2 Merril plot is her Keeper's behaviour. She specifically stated, that ancestors meant Merril's eluvian to be forgotten, and I believe it's not because it was tainted, but because it leads somewhere dangerous. Marethari was well-versed, even for a Keeper, it seems, she knew exactly who Flemeth was, knew how to restore her. It is known, that during Arlathan Keppers were not leaders, but rather priests, who served as archivists. So there is distinct possibility some of them preserved pieces of knowlege

 

Between Solas, the Seekers of Truth, and all the s*** that goes down with the Wardens, you'd think someone would have noticed by now that keeping world-ending secrets from everyone is a really f***ing bad idea.  Though if anyone's in a position to uncover the truth, I suppose it's the Inquisitor.

[Giton]

I'm thinking the mirror is in Fear's talons, and the heart is in Deceit's. They are both tools and metaphors for Dirthamen's tactics in acquiring secrets, or parts of his personality.

The mirror shows a person what their inner fears are.  The mirror can reflect reality, or distort it.

The heart can easily be deceived through emotional manipulation. 

Using both together compromises both the head and the heart, making it easy for Dirthamen to bend others to his will or sway their beliefs to by sympathetic to his own.

 

<edit> I'm adding those glyph bits to the OP. Interesting that Andruil, Mythal, possible Falon'Din (as the crow) are featured as symbols one must find to enter this temple. 

 

I like this idea. 

 

My personal headannon, i.e. where Giton projects her weird desires onto characters, is that Dirthamen while shadowy and powerful (formidable Fadewalker . . . oh, yes),Dirthamen also takes up a confessorial role (I like monks). So perhaps the mirror also signifies that part of his office wherein he holds the mirror up, in that, once you confess your secrets and voice them, you have to confront some dark part of yourself. Because you have finally made that part external.

 

There is a very personal cost to his power, because he is the one who must ultimately bear other's secrets.

Andruil's lullaby to Falon'Din. 

 

[snip]

Falon'din and Andruil's preparty mix. 

 

 

They take the lyrics very literally.

 

Between Solas, the Seekers of Truth, and all the s*** that goes down with the Wardens, you'd think someone would have noticed by now that keeping world-ending secrets from everyone is a really f***ing bad idea.  Though if anyone's in a position to uncover the truth, I suppose it's the Inquisitor.

Marethari . . ugh.

[Eliastion]

I'm thinking the mirror is in Fear's talons, and the heart is in Deceit's. They are both tools and metaphors for Dirthamen's tactics in acquiring secrets, or parts of his personality.

The mirror shows a person what their inner fears are.  The mirror can reflect reality, or distort it.

The heart can easily be deceived through emotional manipulation. 

Using both together compromises both the head and the heart, making it easy for Dirthamen to bend others to his will or sway their beliefs to by sympathetic to his own.

 

<edit> I'm adding those glyph bits to the OP. Interesting that Andruil, Mythal, possible Falon'Din (as the crow) are featured as symbols one must find to enter this temple. 

I think you have it backwards with heart and mirror  

Elves seem to subscribe to the symbolic connection of heart and emotions so raven grasping a heart would definitely be fear while mirror - with its obvious connection to appearance and outer look of things - would be deceit.

Also, the symbolism of the legend seems (to me at least) a  bit simpler and more general - he's the thinker, the one who relies on his intelligence and strenght of mind. The tale about ravens boils down to "a wise man is ruled not by fear nor gives in to deception, he's the one that knows how to strike fear in hearts of others and how to deceive them"  At least that's how I see it  

[electricfish]

That's a fair point. Traditionally mirrors in tales are used to deceive the person who looks into it, mostly by showing extreme beauty where there is none. Definitely deceit.
I think I like your answer better then mine.

[vierrae]

Guys, this codex is a thing. Forget Falon'Din, I think, Dirthamen is our next big bad.

Spoiler

[Sable Rhapsody]

Guys, I just went to a burlesque bar for a friend's birthday.  And there was glitter.  And I thought of all of you.

 

Now I will drink water and sleep.  I just wanted y'all to know.  GLITTER

[Raeona]

Guys, this codex is a thing. Forget Falon'Din, I think, Dirthamen is our next big bad.

 

 

Dirthamen would be a unreasonably awesome Big Bad but if he's Dumat then wasn't he the first archdemon to kick the bucket? Or did I miss some big theory about that? 

 

Though Silence and Keeping Secrets are pretty close bedfellows 

[nikki-tikki]

Dirthamen would be a unreasonably awesome Big Bad but if he's Dumat then wasn't he the first archdemon to kick the bucket? Or did I miss some big theory about that? 
 
Though Silence and Keeping Secrets are pretty close bedfellows

I'm not one for the OGs = elven gods theory. But I hope that Dirthamen is the big bad. As sad and heart wrenching as it would be. I think that one of the most unlucky/weakest pantheon members (in my opinion) is a fantastic way to make the bad guy. Especially if his reasoning is the avenge a certain someone who is very close to him ...

[Maria13]

I'll leave this here: 

 

 

https://www.fanficti...el-and-the-Tree

[Maria13]

I'm not one for the OGs = elven gods theory. But I hope that Dirthamen is the big bad. As sad and heart wrenching as it would be. I think that one of the most unlucky/weakest pantheon members (in my opinion) is a fantastic way to make the bad guy. Especially if his reasoning is the avenge a certain someone who is very close to him ...

 

And we have someone else who's known him very well in the past to assist us...

 

Yeah, glitterotica punch up among the broken beer bottles in the after hours bar...

[vierrae]

I'm not one for the OGs = elven gods theory. But I hope that Dirthamen is the big bad. As sad and heart wrenching as it would be. I think that one of the most unlucky/weakest pantheon members (in my opinion) is a fantastic way to make the bad guy. Especially if his reasoning is the avenge a certain someone who is very close to him ...

Dirthamen doesn't seem neither unlucky, nor weak to me. He is elven super spymaster, he could have twisted all gods around his finger easily.