jk. I'm just hoping that it is not the case.
Same here. I know that lore-wise, there are a bunch of fascinating little things connecting Sera to Andruil...but I like Sera for who she is. I like the bizarre yet grounded counterpoint she offers to all the weird elfy stuff, and I'll be sad if that foil is lost.
Same here. I know that lore-wise, there are a bunch of fascinating little things connecting Sera to Andruil...but I like Sera for who she is. I like the bizarre yet grounded counterpoint she offers to all the weird elfy stuff, and I'll be sad if that foil is lost.
I much prefer the idea that Sera just might be a descendant of Andruil.
I think its more likely that the thing everyone senses about Sera is that she has magical potential, not so much that she's actually Andruil.
I much prefer the idea that Sera just might be a descendant of Andruil.
I think its more likely that the thing everyone senses about Sera is that she has magical potential, not so much that she's actually Andruil.
Same here. I know that lore-wise, there are a bunch of fascinating little things connecting Sera to Andruil...but I like Sera for who she is. I like the bizarre yet grounded counterpoint she offers to all the weird elfy stuff, and I'll be sad if that foil is lost.
Well, her counterpoint amounts to sticking her fingers in ears and going 'LALALA CANT HEAR YOU' whenever anything elven is mentioned. Not so much grounded as it is willfully ignorant and it would be nice if she had a reason for it other than it being a really ugly part of her personality :/ What really tickles me with the Sera=Andruil theory is that ol' Andruil crafted a WMD in her time:
"She shook the radiance of the stars, divided them into grains of light, then stored them in a shaft of gold. Andruil, blood and force, save us from the time this weapon is thrown. Your people pray to You. Spare us the moment we become Your sacrifice"
Sera.With a WMD. Let the horror sink in 
Also, this thread an all its glittery goodness!
If anything, I think she might be responsible for the demons in the alienage orphanage from DA:O. That would easily explain her fear of the unknown, of magic, and most importantly, of herself. Much of what she is, she rejects. She needs the world and her perception of it to be as simple as possible or else her emotional stability teeters.
I feel that her desire to join the inquisition was to make the world go back to "normal," back to the mundane she knows how to handle and comprehend. Anything outside of that banality, of petty human needs and childish retribution, clearly makes her uncomfortable because it makes her question herself. That is something she absolutely cannot allow herself to do. Because it would force her to confront her childhood in Denerim all those years ago when nothing was stable, when nothing was solid, and the world threatened to crumble.
But I'll be the first to say we don't have any proof in either direction. I've definitely appreciated the posts I've read so far on the Andruil-Sera connection and think they've got some awesome theories. Personally, I HOPE she's not Andruil because I have so many better ideas about how she could be handled that Sera would be a disappointment in comparison. (Blighted madness imprisoned behind an eluvian? Twisted beyond any shred of sanity? With a tragic back story that humanizes her above the easy-to-villify-codex entries we've been given so far? YESSSS).
While the Sera=Andruil's vessel evidence is very interesting, I'm more of a fan of her being a descendant or somehow linked, rather than being a full-fledged vessel. Like a lesser version of Andraste. Some weirdness going on in her head that she shoves to the side. Or latent magical talent. Or both.
The Box for Red Jenny being important enough to be held by the First Enchanter and stolen, her mentioning playing with it, and the elven orphanage in general, is all headcanon-tingling stuff. 
I'm curious to see what comes of it.
But yeah, crazed blighted vengeful but awesome Andruil is something I really want to see. And while I like Sera, I don't think she'd be a good fit for Andruil.
If the creators and the old gods are connected, what are everyone's thoughts on which creators are equivalent to which old gods? In my opinion:
<snip comparison>
Then we're left with only Fen'Harel who seems to lack an equivalent at this time.
I have a question here. Do we know for sure that the old gods were dragons, I mean real dragons? I always assumed that they were something else (whatever possibly humanoid form) and at some point a blighted dragon would take in an old god's soul, probably because hardly any other being is capable of bearing that soul. We know that if an archdemon is slain the OGS will hop into another body but that body's chances of survival are low. Wardens die in any case, what happens to Darkspawn we don't know (it makes no sense that they would survive, but since it's such a big deal that a Warden must be the new vessel, and die, maybe Darkspawn could survive long enough to find a new suitable host?). And Morrigan's baby is strong enough to hold the OGS, thanks to the ritual, just like a (blighted) dragon can.
But I didn't think the OGs were dragons to begin with. Is this confirmed?
And Fen'harel stood between the Forgotten Ones and the Elven Gods, so maybe he is really just one entity and has no counterpart.
I have a question here. Do we know for sure that the old gods were dragons, I mean real dragons? I always assumed that they were something else (whatever possibly humanoid form) and at some point a blighted dragon would take in an old god's soul, probably because hardly any other being is capable of bearing that soul. We know that if an archdemon is slain the OGS will hop into another body but that body's chances of survival are low. Wardens die in any case, what happens to Darkspawn we don't know (it makes no sense that they would survive, but since it's such a big deal that a Warden must be the new vessel, and die, maybe Darkspawn could survive long enough to find a new suitable host?). And Morrigan's baby is strong enough to hold the OGS, thanks to the ritual, just like a (blighted) dragon can.
But I didn't think the OGs were dragons to begin with. Is this confirmed?
And Fen'harel stood between the Forgotten Ones and the Elven Gods, so maybe he is really just one entity and has no counterpart.
It seems that the Old Gods appeared to the Neromenian Dreamers and Tevinter Magisters in the forms of dragons, and statues in the likeness of the future Archdemons were made at their temples.
But it's said they were approached in the Fade, not in Thedas. So presumably anything with enough influence over the Fade could assume whatever form they wish.
I'm reminded of the Temple of Mythal codex entry about the guy taking the form of a dragon, 'a form reserved for the divine and their chosen'. Someone a while back had this lovely theory about the Old Gods being the High Priests of the Elvhen Gods in their dragon form. (My one problem with this is that the Archdemon souls seems to back a lot of oomph, on the level of Flemethyal's soul spillage at the end of Inquisition.)
I think Madrar has the notion that the Creators possessed dragons from Uthenera to be able to wreak devastation as a dragon while avoiding personal risk, and were caught by Solas when they were in that form. (Making it easier to lock them away in uthenera and imprison their meat-puppets.)
Tl;dr: *shrug*
Ghilan'nain is clearly the best. I want more Ghilan'nain lore and goodies. 
So, what's the prevalent theory about what the elven gods actually are/were? Powerful demons/spirits? Elves that somehow transcended mortality and became a mix of elf and spirit/demon?
It seems that the Old Gods appeared to the Neromenian Dreamers and Tevinter Magisters in the forms of dragons, and statues in the likeness of the future Archdemons were made at their temples.
...
I'm reminded of the Temple of Mythal codex entry about the guy taking the form of a dragon, 'a form reserved for the divine and their chosen'.
I think Madrar has the notion that the Creators possessed dragons from Uthenera to be able to wreak devastation as a dragon while avoiding personal risk
The way you say this implies they could be anything, simply shapeshifting like Mythal does (or see Zeus, as I know this suits you) to appear as something else, like a dragon.
Are we now speaking of shapeshifting or remote control? Because both could account for this notion. If you remote/mind control you don't have to be in the body at all thus further minimizing personal danger.
What I was angling for was elven gods behind Eluvians appearing in the shape of dragons, as they know primitive humans are in awe of the giant lizard, and it's one of their favored shapeshifting forms, judging by the murals. Either that, or they recruited dragons as an auxiliary air force. 
Zeus does indeed suit me.
I can't speak for Madrar, but I think it was remote control in this instance, as a sort of refinement of shapeshifting. Maybe combine the two? Shapeshifted priest-warriors of the gods remote-controlled by them? But why remove the autonomy like that? Perhaps the mind-control doesn't work very well on dragons. *shrug*
I got a request for some timeline clarification a few weeks ago from Madrar. I think she's been developing the dwarven history and mythology aspects of her Grand Unified Theory.
I don't know about that. Sylaise sounds like she's got a case of egoism, given her song is all about praising her and her super powers compared to the rest of the pantheon. Either she was the least powerful of the pantheon, or someone made a horrible mistake when they assigned her as the god of healing, childbirth, and fire.
The way you say this implies they could be anything, simply shapeshifting like Mythal does (or see Zeus, as I know this suits you) to appear as something else, like a dragon.
Are we now speaking of shapeshifting or remote control? Because both could account for this notion. If you remote/mind control you don't have to be in the body at all thus further minimizing personal danger.
Regarding mind control...it may be possible with the level of power the elven pantheon had, or even their most powerful priests/Dreamers. To shapeshift, you must both possess magical talent and be able to spend long enough time observing a creature to understand its soul. It's work and dedication, but once you understand the soul of a creature, you are always attuned to that form.
Therefore, as a Dreamer who can freely walk around the Fade and jump into people's dreams, they could potentially control a person via mucking with their mind while they were dreaming.
What I was angling for was elven gods behind Eluvians appearing in the shape of dragons, as they know primitive humans are in awe of the giant lizard, and it's one of their favored shapeshifting forms, judging by the murals.
...
But why remove the autonomy like that?
...
I think she's been developing the dwarven history and mythology aspects of her Grand Unified Theory.
So we assume they were not necessarily dragons in their raw form but could simply adopt dragon form and/or (I tend toward "and" because of Mythal's abilities) remote control dragons.
I see evidence for mind control when considering the Well of Sorrows. My elf girl who drank would say something like "You commanded me here" when Mythal shows up, and Mythals replies along the lines of "Clever girl. I command the voices, and the voices command you." (I don't remember the exact words).
Controlling a dragon must be more difficult than controlling others, how else is the dragon the creature that can stand the taint and the song best? It's mind must be stronger, have some sort of defense mechanism. But, after all, Mythal can command the dragon who will show up at the altar (because I do not think she is that particular dragon herself). And I assume it's safe to think the Forgotten Ones were no less powerful than the elven gods.
(Is madrar still around anyway?)
With what you and electricfish said, we can assume the Forgotten Ones are something different, too, not necessarily dragons. So what we you think they were, magisters/mages/something yet unknown?
Sorry for staying off topic so long. On topic:
Even though the Sera=Andruil theory has good arguments, I so do not want it to be real. It would be redundant and kind of tiresome if a lot of elvhen gods happened to be in disguise, being hosted in mortal bodies.
I just heard for the first time that Ghilan'nain and Andruil were supposedly lovers the other day.
Since the gods seem to have been real people at one point or another, I am now headcanoning Ghila as some pacifist animal-whispering forest hippy who's girlfriend was, like, elven Bear Grylls.
The fanfiction writes itself, tbh.
hahaha I love that imgage!!!!
I just heard for the first time that Ghilan'nain and Andruil were supposedly lovers the other day.
Since the gods seem to have been real people at one point or another, I am now headcanoning Ghila as some pacifist animal-whispering forest hippy who's girlfriend was, like, elven Bear Grylls.
The fanfiction writes itself, tbh.
hahaha I love that image!!!!
I hate the idea too, but if it's true I demand that Sandal is June.Even though the Sera=Andruil theory has good arguments, I so do not want it to be real. It would be redundant and kind of tiresome if a lot of elvhen gods happened to be in disguise, being hosted in mortal bodies.
I hate the idea too, but if it's true I demand that Sandal is June.
The world hasn't exactly cared about anything Northern Ireland has demanded so far...
I'm writing the Fic as we speak...
I'm out of likes so **likes**!!!!
The world hasn't exactly cared about anything Northern Ireland has demanded so far...
Retour en haut
