Dirthamen doesn't seem neither unlucky, nor weak to me. He is elven super spymaster, he could have twisted all gods around his finger easily.
I meant physically powerful. God of secrets seems that he is most powerful behind the scenes and that's how he likes to be. Which would beg to argue that he is not all that powerful in a one on one fight. Though I could be mistaken. Either way. I hope its him. As much as I love him. Even though he doesn't exist yet.
I wouldn't be so sure. Dirthamen seems to be a god of magic, among other things. So unless that's some later addition to his portfolio that appeared when magic became more scarce... Well.
Let's ponder for a moment on what ancient elven god of magic was capable of, shall we? 
I wouldn't risk calling him weak, even considering only raw "personal" power 
I wouldn't be so sure. Dirthamen seems to be a god of magic, among other things. So unless that's some later addition to his portfolio that appeared when magic became more scarce... Well.
Let's ponder for a moment on what ancient elven god of magic was capable of, shall we?
I wouldn't risk calling him weak, even considering only raw "personal" power
I don't doubt that he is an immensely strong mage. He's a god for a reason. But perhaps compared to the rest of the pantheon he might be a bit less. Which would give him the advantage of sneaking up on everybody since nobody would expect him.
They - the rest of pantehon - all had power but it is him - not them - that is the god of magic. Assumption that he's less powerful than them seems... risky.
They - the rest of pantehon - all had power but it is him - not them - that is the god of magic. Assumption that he's less powerful than them seems... risky.
Perhaps they all had something more powerful than regular magic that had elevated them to god hood. Which would make Dirthamen the god of hat tricks and mirrors compared to whatever their other god abilities might be.
That's possible, of course, pretty far-fetched. You assume that "regular magic" (if something like that can even exist) is inherently weaker to some unnamed-but-different-from-regular-magic power... It could well be the other way around, with other gods possessing some limited powers connected to their domains and Dirthamen commanding inexhaustible forces of magic freely - a difference between some hedge mage with limited understanding of powers focused on limited uses he taught himself as opposed by a mage coming from one of the major traditions and consciously studying the arcane...
That's pure speculation, sure, but so is the "god of parlor tricks" hypothesis you propose.
Also, there is one additional aspect - we don't really know whether Dirthamen was actually a separate entity from Falon'Din, take a look: http://dragonage.wik...Twins_in_Shadow
They seem to originally be considered to be either aspects of one being or two closely-tied beings on completely equal footing. In either case, Dirthamen's strength could be assumed to be (equal to) that of Falon'Din, who - according to the tale we can hear from Solas - was hardly a weak member of the pantheon...
That's possible, of course, pretty far-fetched. You assume that "regular magic" (if something like that can even exist) is inherently weaker to some unnamed-but-different-from-regular-magic power... It could well be the other way around, with other gods possessing some limited powers connected to their domains and Dirthamen commanding inexhaustible forces of magic freely - a difference between some hedge mage with limited understanding of powers focused on limited uses he taught himself as opposed by a mage coming from one of the major traditions and consciously studying the arcane...
That's pure speculation, sure, but so is the "god of parlor tricks" hypothesis you propose.
Also, there is one additional aspect - we don't really know whether Dirthamen was actually a separate entity from Falon'Din, take a look: http://dragonage.wik...Twins_in_Shadow
They seem to originally be considered to be either aspects of one being or two closely-tied beings on completely equal footing. In either case, Dirthamen's strength could be assumed to be (equal to) that of Falon'Din, who - according to the tale we can hear from Solas - was hardly a weak member of the pantheon...
That's an interesting thought. But since I'm sticking with the Twin souls are not conjoined twin souls...There isn't much told about any of the elven pantheon, other than Mythal who we see revealed in the game. I would have loved to either ask her or Abelas questions about ancient arlathan but since that would probably indicate spoilers the writers didn't give us that chance.
Anyways. I'm thinking that DIrthamen was very powerful, but in a different way. That he chose to remain quiet and work in the shadows. It gives him more of an advantage to do what he wants without having to alert anyone about what he is up to. So it could be that he has alot of power, but he chooses not to display it for his own benefit. So maybe I'm arguing that he put up this illusion that he was a weaker member so that no one would suspect him.
That's an interesting thought. But since I'm sticking with the Twin souls are not conjoined twin souls...There isn't much told about any of the elven pantheon, other than Mythal who we see revealed in the game. I would have loved to either ask her or Abelas questions about ancient arlathan but since that would probably indicate spoilers the writers didn't give us that chance.
Anyways. I'm thinking that DIrthamen was very powerful, but in a different way. That he chose to remain quiet and work in the shadows. It gives him more of an advantage to do what he wants without having to alert anyone about what he is up to. So it could be that he has alot of power, but he chooses not to display it for his own benefit. So maybe I'm arguing that he put up this illusion that he was a weaker member so that no one would suspect him.
Assuming Falon'din and Dirthamen were separate entities, I picture them as being very close allies, with Falon'din handling matters in a more upfront matter, with Dirthamen acting as spymaster. Both being powerful in direct confrontation, but Dirthamen preferring to avoid conflict just by collecting secrets, avoiding wasting power. *shrug* I can also picture
June and Ghilan'nain are the ones I'd peg as being the least directly powerful. June because the stereotype of the smith god seems to be somewhat removed from the others' power politics and focused on creating the fun magical gizmos that give the heroes and gods a fighting edge, and Ghilan'nain because she seems to have Andruil as a superior, whereas most of the gods may have had only the parents of the Pantheon. (Though Fen'harel may have had Mythal, going off some interesting theories.) But Bioware could do something that would surprise me with their characterization. A craft-god that kills dragons with his bare hands to collect materials for his new enchanted cloak, a scientist that breeds horrors and unleashes them on the People to test them and stands ready to overthrow Andruil. That kind of thing.
Elgar'nan, Mythal, Andruil, and Falon'din are the ones I suspect of being most powerful directly. Assuming Liz's interpretation of Tyrdda Bright-Axe is on the mark, Dirthamen is defeated by a human mage with some aid from Mythal in the Fade. He could have been holding back, or Tyrdda could have been a Dark Souls protagonist candidate.
Assuming Falon'din and Dirthamen were separate entities, I picture them as being very close allies, with Falon'din handling matters in a more upfront matter, with Dirthamen acting as spymaster. Both being powerful in direct confrontation, but Dirthamen preferring to avoid conflict just by collecting secrets, avoiding wasting power. *shrug* I can also picture
June and Ghilan'nain are the ones I'd peg as being the least directly powerful. June because the stereotype of the smith god seems to be somewhat removed from the others' power politics and focused on creating the fun magical gizmos that give the heroes and gods a fighting edge, and Ghilan'nain because she seems to have Andruil as a superior, whereas most of the gods may have had only the parents of the Pantheon. (Though Fen'harel may have had Mythal, going off some interesting theories.) But Bioware could do something that would surprise me with their characterization. A craft-god that kills dragons with his bare hands to collect materials for his new enchanted cloak, a scientist that breeds horrors and unleashes them on the People to test them and stands ready to overthrow Andruil. That kind of thing.
Elgar'nan, Mythal, Andruil, and Falon'din are the ones I suspect of being most powerful directly. Assuming Liz's interpretation of Tyrdda Bright-Axe is on the mark, Dirthamen is defeated by a human mage with some aid from Mythal in the Fade. He could have been holding back, or Tyrdda could have been a Dark Souls protagonist candidate.
The Tyrdda Bright Axe theory. She didn't full out defeat him. He decided to run away, but perhaps there was a reason for it. I think it was some sort of distraction, if Thelm Gold Handed really was Dirthamen. Tyrdda's lover warns her about him, which means that if the lover was Mythal, she would have had to know that Dirthamen was planning something against her already, which means that he would have to be one step ahead. Because I doubt that Mythal could out-secret the god of secrets...
The Tyrdda Bright Axe theory. She didn't full out defeat him. He decided to run away, but perhaps there was a reason for it. I think it was some sort of distraction, if Thelm Gold Handed really was Dirthamen. Tyrdda's lover warns her about him, which means that if the lover was Mythal, she would have had to know that Dirthamen was planning something against her already, which means that he would have to be one step ahead. Because I doubt that Mythal could out-secret the god of secrets...
Dirthamen does seem like one of the likelier suspects for her betrayal. 
Dirthamen does seem like one of the likelier suspects for her betrayal.
I'm such a strong believer...and if it's not Dirthamen the unsuspected big bad....i'm gunna be sad 
As much as I love Glamour Toad, I'd love to see some fan-art of red lyrium-crazed Angry-Elf-Hephaestus-June. 
A burly, inexplicably bearded elf that's busy hammering, I dunno, proto-golems into shape, or Sentinel thigh-armor. 
Anyways. I'm thinking that DIrthamen was very powerful, but in a different way. That he chose to remain quiet and work in the shadows. It gives him more of an advantage to do what he wants without having to alert anyone about what he is up to. So it could be that he has alot of power, but he chooses not to display it for his own benefit. So maybe I'm arguing that he put up this illusion that he was a weaker member so that no one would suspect him.
Don't some of the codex entries talk about Dirthamen practising mind reading? Policing people's thoughts, thus knowing their secrets (hence Solas's arguments against the Qun) which would make him unreasonably powerful. It's not physical or inherently threatening power but he could hold the entire pantheon hostage just by knowing all their inner thoughts. Nobody could ever move against him because he'd know what they were planning, and if you wanted to attack someone else you could go to him to for information.
Any conflict would always be completely stacked in his favour.
...and in modern day Thedas he would know every person's doubts and ambitions and fears. He'd be like a more effective version of the Nightmare.
As much as I love Glamour Toad, I'd love to see some fan-art of red lyrium-crazed Angry-Elf-Hephaestus-June.
Oh, June is TOTALLY responsible for the sexy sentinel thigh armor....
Don't some of the codex entries talk about Dirthamen practising mind reading? Policing people's thoughts, thus knowing their secrets (hence Solas's arguments against the Qun) which would make him unreasonably powerful. It's not physical or inherently threatening power but he could hold the entire pantheon hostage just by knowing all their inner thoughts. Nobody could ever move against him because he'd know what they were planning, and if you wanted to attack someone else you could go to him to for information.
Any conflict would always be completely stacked in his favour.
...and in modern day Thedas he would know every person's doubts and ambitions and fears. He'd be like a more effective version of the Nightmare.
omg. this is exactly....
Don't some of the codex entries talk about Dirthamen practising mind reading? Policing people's thoughts, thus knowing their secrets (hence Solas's arguments against the Qun) which would make him unreasonably powerful. It's not physical or inherently threatening power but he could hold the entire pantheon hostage just by knowing all their inner thoughts. Nobody could ever move against him because he'd know what they were planning, and if you wanted to attack someone else you could go to him to for information.
Any conflict would always be completely stacked in his favour.
...and in modern day Thedas he would know every person's doubts and ambitions and fears. He'd be like a more effective version of the Nightmare.
Well in any Ancient Arlathan DLC we can identify Dirthamen's territories by how eerily orderly they are...
Ugh. 
Dirthy makes me uncomfortable.
In other news, I ship June/Hephaestus now. Or, possibly, June/Caridin. I even have my theories that Caridin's 'I was inspired to make the golems by the ancestors speaking to me' is, in fact, a dwarf having dreams but lacking the words to describe it, and being driven by June to save the dwarves from annihilation at the hands of the darkspawn.
Spoiler
Caddius-senpai, Caddius-senpai, no
Fine, fine, uncomfortable in the sense that he's not here to share a certain kind of secrets with me and my clothes are still on. Will that placate you, Meer?
Fine, fine, uncomfortable in the sense that he's not here to share a certain kind of secrets with me and my clothes are still on. Will that placate you, Meer?
It pleases me.
Fine, fine, uncomfortable in the sense that he's not here to share a certain kind of secrets with me and my clothes are still on. Will that placate you, Meer?
We are placated for now.
I swear, it's like tossing virgins and/or Greek philosophers into a volcano to placate the gods. Never satisfied!
Every time someone says Dirthamen makes them feel uncomfortable, Stevhen feels it in his very bones and sheds one long, lingering tear.
I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I would like to point out that Ghilan'nain was a mad scientist BEFORE she was elevated by Andruil to be included in the pantheon. Unless she wasn't the only one filling the world with horrors and misc animals, that seems to be very high on the "magic power" scale.
I'd wager she's pretty passable in a straight up fight, especially if she's able to use a bow or dagger (being a devoted follower of Andruil), but she seems like the type to get clever and weird in a situation where she can use magic.
I'd wager she's pretty passable in a straight up fight, especially if she's able to use a bow or dagger (being a devoted follower of Andruil), but she seems like the type to get clever and weird in a situation where she can use magic.
I get the feeling all their fighting styles would be really weird, just look at Andruil and her star powered spear of doom. But for some reason I like the idea of Ghilan'nain despite all her mad scientist ways, being hilariously incompetent on the battlefield, maybe just throwing halla at the enemy until they go away or Andruil shows up.
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