I guess we could call them the "Super Powerful Ancient (Mostly) Elvhen Coterie Formerly Known as the Divine Pantheon," but that is a mouthful.
It was probably a branch of the Teamsters - Local 700 - Elvhen Magisters Union
Fen'Harel rebelled when they all voted to de-unionize. HE WAS BETRAYED. How many times had he confronted his brothers and sisters in the Arthlathan YMCA ennummerating the benefits of unionization????
 
It was probably a branch of the Teamsters - Local 700 - Elvhen Magisters Union
 
Fen'Harel rebelled when they all voted to de-unionize.  HE WAS BETRAYED.   How many times had he confronted his brothers and sisters in the Arthlathan YMCA ennummerating the benefits of unionization????
Meanwhile, at June's Craft Corner:
I'm still hellspiralling in Dirthamen's temple...
I'm still hellspiralling in Dirthamen's temple...
This might help . . . or at least distract:
it sparks new headcannons that does. More...happy and delicious headcannons...
I'm still hellspiralling in Dirthamen's temple...
I only just discovered that area a couple of days ago (Because I can be hilariously dense sometimes) and I don't know if I'm having my mind blown or my eyes chopped out and kept in a ceremonial bowl.
"There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.
I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert their will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery."
Forgotten Ones dont seem that bad
Nope. And this sounds so much like Solas's creed: "Cause and effect..."
I wonder if this is not a Eloi ( the Pantheon) v the Morlocks (the forgotten ones), situation whereby the Pantheon is exploiting the power of the forgotten ones who eventually rebel… And in the middle of this Fen'Harel swapped sides and eventually went into business on his own.
Nope. And this sounds so much like Solas's creed: "Cause and effect..."
I wonder if this is not a Eloi ( the Pantheon) v the Morlocks (the forgotten ones), situation whereby the Pantheon is exploiting the power of the forgotten ones who eventually rebel… And in the middle of this Fen'Harel swapped sides and eventually went into business on his own.
We have theories on this!! I'll post our whole thing today! But yeah, the rhetoric of that codex is all "revolutionary manifesto". I can just imagine Geldauran was sitting down and scribbling furiously. I love it so much.
The forgotten ones were "forgotten" for a reason. Perhaps they were gods before and sort of got kicked out for being completely incompetent or perhaps weaker than the pantheon. Either way their stories don't even fit into the history of the pantheon either...unless the history is wrong.
Nope. And this sounds so much like Solas's creed: "Cause and effect..."
I wonder if this is not a Eloi ( the Pantheon) v the Morlocks (the forgotten ones), situation whereby the Pantheon is exploiting the power of the forgotten ones who eventually rebel… And in the middle of this Fen'Harel swapped sides and eventually went into business on his own.
I suppose this piece of information is from the DLC? Welp, I'll have to wait for the friggin' PS4 version.
I did suspect at some point that the forgotten ones are being exploited by the Pantheon.
There is no hint of the forgotten one's forms, right?
I suppose this piece of information is from the DLC? Welp, I'll have to wait for the friggin' PS4 version.
I did suspect at some point that the forgotten ones are being exploited by the Pantheon.
There is no hint of the forgotten one's forms, right?
No, it's just a rune you find if you unlock a certain door. Easily missed if you aren't starved for lore like us...I searched every nook and cranny for ANYTHING...and I saw that and died a little....
No, it's just a rune you find if you unlock a certain door. Easily missed if you aren't starved for lore like us...I searched every nook and cranny for ANYTHING...and I saw that and died a little....
Mmmm but I do look through every nook and cranny, never seen that codex before :S
Mmmm but I do look through every nook and cranny, never seen that codex before :S
It's in the DLC aha, sorry I didn't clarify
Our Garbage Theories -
It's spoilery and long - but essentially we talk about Solas' relationship with the Forgotten Ones
http://vhenantrash.t...d-wolf-is-dread
Our Garbage Theories -
It's spoilery and long - but essentially we talk about Solas' relationship with the Forgotten Ones
My only question is Cole's banter with him about it. He tells him that he didn't "do it" to hurt them, he was trying to help them...so was he indirectly trying to help the pantheon by siding with the forgotten ones and then betraying them later?
Our Garbage Theories -
It's spoilery and long - but essentially we talk about Solas' relationship with the Forgotten Ones
http://vhenantrash.t...d-wolf-is-dread
Solas: I heard about your organization, Sera. I am impressed.
Sera: Is this a trick?
Solas: Hardly. But it is an opportunity. You have already divided your group's membership. That is wise. No one cell can betray all your secrets. The next step is to establish a rhythm.
When your enemies pursue, you vanish. When they become complacent, you harass them. When they are weak, you strike in earnest.
Sera: Where d'you get all this, then?
Solas: Do you wish to be unnerved by another tale of my explorations of the Fade? Or do you wish to learn something?
Sera: I don't know. Neither?
───────
Solas: Once you have the aristocracy weakened, Sera, you will have to redirect your lieutenants.
Sera: Oh, this again. All right, what am I doing?
Solas: Some of your forces, valuable until now, have no interests beyond creating disruption. Chaos for its own sake. They must be repositioned where they can do no harm, or removed if necessary. You replace them with organizers willing to build a new system and carry out the ugly work that must be done.
Sera: What? Why? What ugly work?
Solas: That is up to you. Do you wish to disrupt the nobility, secure a title? Or change the political structure entirely?
Sera: None of it! I don't want any of that!
───────
Solas: I do not understand you, Sera. You do not have an end goal for your organization.
Sera: Nobles get rattled, and people get payback. I play in the middle.
Solas: Why not go all the way? You see injustice. And you have organized a group to fight it. Don't you want to replace it with something better?
Sera: What, just lop off the top? What does that do, except make a new top to frig it all up?
Solas: I...forgive me. You are right. You are fine as you are.
Sera: You hurt my head sometimes, Solas.
Solas: Yes, I have been known to do that.
Hmmm...
For me this is constitutes the clearest textual evidence I have come upon so far indicating that Solas is actually Fen'Harel, he appears to be attempting instruct Sera (a natural political anarchist who loves to cause chaos for the sake of causing chaos) in the fine art of subversion (or perhaps we could also call it terrorism?) and the importance of having an endgame... We know Solas is a great chess player, this seems to indicate that he is all about the endgame.
The bit about replacing your former Lieutenants is particularly… Sinister and ruthless.
Perhaps this would explain some of his stranger approvals and disapprovals, he is not awarding them based on personal preference or morality but rather on their political practicality.
Perhaps I should start a new thread, this is at the other end of the spectrum from fluffy Solas.
Yes, I know I am distastefully quoting myself but I absolutely agree with Solas as a revolutionary.
My only question is Cole's banter with him about it. He tells him that he didn't "do it" to hurt them, he was trying to help them...so was he indirectly trying to help the pantheon by siding with the forgotten ones and then betraying them later?
I think he may have locked Arlathan away when he banished the gods, so he is feeling guilty about all the normal elves that lived in the city. 
My only question is Cole's banter with him about it. He tells him that he didn't "do it" to hurt them, he was trying to help them...so was he indirectly trying to help the pantheon by siding with the forgotten ones and then betraying them later?
Because Cole is mostly about intent. If Solas - in his heart of hearts -thought he was doing good then that makes it somewhat justifiable to Cole. Look at Cole - he was murdering mages because he thought he was helping them. My thought is that Solas was part of the pantheon first - he was always a powerful mage - and became disillusioned. He met up with this other group and saw a way to change things. So he was actually betraying the pantheon, but then when **** went south with his revolutionary buddies, he ended up betraying them too. That's why we have the codex that he was enemies of both at one point. He was found out.
I think he may have locked Arlathan away when he banished the gods, so he is feeling guilty about all the normal elves that lived in the city.
I know he has a distaste for Falon'din and possibly Andruil, but what about June bug????? HOW CAN YOU NOT LOVE GLITTER CRAFT JUNE BUG <333
Yes, I know I am distastefully quoting myself but I absolutely agree with Solas as a revolutionary.
I've always viewed Solas as a revolutionary. I'm just imagining them sitting around talking heatedly about politics. NNNGGG. Honestly, him being a bit of a ruthless dude in this regard makes me like him even more. Also Geldauran....i think the dude could get it. Just a bunch of angry sexy elves wreaking havoc.
I know he has a distaste for Falon'din and possibly Andruil, but what about June bug????? HOW CAN YOU NOT LOVE GLITTER CRAFT JUNE BUG <333
If Solas makes me kill June Bug - even if in-game June bug isn't like my thoughts on him - I will not do it. I WILL NOT. The glamour toad must be protected!
I know he has a distaste for Falon'din and possibly Andruil, but what about June bug????? HOW CAN YOU NOT LOVE GLITTER CRAFT JUNE BUG <333
Here is my expert theory, backed up with plenty of evidence.
Solas locked away June out of jealousy. June invented Connect 4, monopoly and operation, and once a year he would fly across Elvhenan on a sleigh pulled by griffons, delivering these games to the poor and needy. Solas who was leading the poor and needy in rebellion got jelly that they liked June better than him, and trapped him in an Eluvian. Ruining June day forever, but its okay just like a phoenix June will rise again, bringing love and joy to Thedas.
What I'm trying to say is that Solas is the Grinch.
I've always viewed Solas as a revolutionary. I'm just imagining them sitting around talking heatedly about politics. NNNGGG. Honestly, him being a bit of a ruthless dude in this regard makes me like him even more. Also Geldauran....i think the dude could get it. Just a bunch of angry sexy elves wreaking havoc.
Absolutely... But I don't think they just sat around... Maybe by the time he decided to act it was too late... But act he did.
Because Cole is mostly about intent. If Solas - in his heart of hearts -thought he was doing good then that makes it somewhat justifiable to Cole. Look at Cole - he was murdering mages because he thought he was helping them. My thought is that Solas was part of the pantheon first - he was always a powerful mage - and became disillusioned. He met up with this other group and saw a way to change things. So he was actually betraying the pantheon, but then when **** went south with his revolutionary buddies, he ended up betraying them too. That's why we have the codex that he was enemies of both at one point. He was found out.
I take a different view, I don't think he was a member of the pantheon originally, but either a creature (i.e. created by Mythal or Ghilly), one of the forgotten ones adopted by Mythal, or something else entirely…
I am mostly inclined to believe that he was one of the forgotten ones and helped imprison them in the abyss, thus gaining the favour of Mythal and when things in Arlathan began to go south, he decided that the time had come to take action again, perhaps even with Mythal's help and approval.
I take a different view, I don't think he was a member of the pantheon originally, but either a creature (i.e. created by Mythal or Ghilly), one of the forgotten ones adopted by Mythal, or something else entirely…
I am mostly inclined to believe that he was one of the forgotten ones and helped imprison them in the abyss, thus gaining the favour of Mythal and when things in Arlathan began to go south, he decided that the time had come to take action again, perhaps even with Mythal's help and approval.
Well in Dalish tales it does say that Fen'Harel was neither god nor forgotten one. But the thing is, the Dalish have an extremely skewed view on their history...but it still does kind of make sense that in order to accomplish what he did he would have to be neither those things. To have the view of freeing people and overthrowing the pantheon(s) he would have to identify with the common people. Which I don't think any god (or even forgotten one) would do. To lower yourself to what the elven gods considered scraps and expendable materials...he would have had to either dissown his godhood, or not be part of it to begin with.
Which also makes sense that in order to overthrow them, he would need powerful allies...as made clear with his banter with Sera "why not take it all the way?" which means that he intended to replace the gods with a newer "better" government perhaps?
So then is his plan to release the gods? Now it doesn't seem so likely...
GAH my thoughts are everywhere!!!
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