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[myahele]

The remaining Old Gods currently awake and kicking in pain inside their prison?

 

 

The mosaic of The Archdemon looks like an Archdemon (Dumat?) being pierced by 3 (lyrium?) spikes on the right-hand side ... that's probably not comfortable.

 

Then there's this area in the Western Approach which is the location of an Old God. Solas says something like "They shouldn't be tempering with something that should not be tampered with" Additionally, the rumbles underneath (might be thrashing about?) +you can faintly hear what sounds like a dragon's roar only hereeven if you kill the High Dragon in the area.

 

This area also has Primeval Red Lyrium on top of the hole. And if you jump to your death, you can briefly see that the base has a slight red glow (red lyrium?)

 

This might explain why there are so many Darkspawn nearby, since they can hear the Old God (Lusacan?) calling. However, the red lyrium next to the entrance and potential deep underground is potentially warding off the darkspawn as well.

 

 

ps. Posted also in Solas thread, but thought I'd post here too for some other people to see. 

[Raeona]

I love the similarities this pantheon has with the Nordic one. 

 

That said, I wrote a thing about Mythal and Frigga: https://www.fanficti...y-When-You-Fall

 

Because if it's worth writing about then it's worth mangling in the name of a contrived crossover. 

[nikki-tikki]

I like that you dug this thread out from like 1000000000 pages back and posted that

 

[Raeona]

Anything for a shameless self-plug  

 

Also, I freaking love this thread and I hate seeing it die

[nikki-tikki]

I should be pposting stuff here, this topic is pretty much my life. 

 

Have a Falon'Din:

 

Spoiler

[Raeona]

I wonder, we found a temple of Mythal and a temple for Dirthamen, would Falon'Dins be just next door? Or would his just be a mass grave.

 

Unrelated ominous picture is ominous. 

[myahele]

 

Last time something with Tree on it was featured (Flemeth's Grimoir) it turned out to be elvhen-related.

 

Additionally, we see statues depicting a robe figure(much like the illustration of The Maker) but holding a crown.

 

I always wondered what the flames represented (excluding her burning)

[Raeona]

 

Hang on wait, where did that pic come from? I don't think I've seen that one before. 

 

At a glance it could be andraste and the maker but the chantry don't usually have trees in their imagery.

 

On a barely related note, remember the ruins Mahariel found way back in the dalish Origins that had the Eluvian? It had a lot of human carvings and artwork alongside elven stuff. Did we ever find out what was up with that, or is it just part of the idea that much of human culture had elven origins?  And then there's the Blight hanging out in the mirror which doesn't answer any questions at all.

[myahele]

That wasn't the only time a tree was shown in regards to the maker. The opening of DAO also shows a tree when talking about the Golden City/ The Maker.

 

Here's another picture of Andraste with the Maker:

[electricfish]

That wasn't the only time a tree was shown in regards to the maker. The opening of DAO also shows a tree when talking about the Golden City/ The Maker.

 

Here's another picture of Andraste with the Maker:

 

What's fun is that this scene is in a crazy forest at night. Do you know what else happened to Andraste at night? She followed her half-sister into a forest and ~mysterious things~ happened which ended up with some villagers finding Andraste unconscious and sick in the morning, and her half-sister dead and mangled almost beyond recognition. With wounds that were not of any weapon. For the next 10 years Andraste was sickly and afterward declared it hearsay to talk about her half-sister at all.

 

This is especially interesting when you consider what happens to Connor if you let the desire demon have possession of the boy. He becomes sickly and frail for the next several years (I think it's also a decade) until he just disappears from Redcliffe.

[myahele]

I wonder if Andraste tried to kill, or maybe abuse her half-sister?

 

It was said that Andraste's mother most likely had the half-sister's mother killed. And being a bastard, I doubt she was ever truly liked in Andraste's clan.

 

I have a feeling there was a scuffle, but it went too far and eventually a spirit/demon was involved

[nikki-tikki]

I'm not saying it was spirits but...

 

[myahele]

The Truth is Out There...

[shabby-alonso]

Hey, uh, I've never really posted on any kind of forum before, but I love me some elf stuff...

Just recently, I actually did a sort of fan cast for the elven pantheon, so if you want to check that out here's my shameless plug

 

check it out

 

as for the Andraste stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if she were some kind of OGB and misinterpreted Dumat as the maker (as Kieran mentions hearing voices in his head much like is described with Andraste).

[nikki-tikki]

Yeah there is a lot that seems fishy with Andraste at this moment. We shall have to wait and see...

[S.W.]

oh my god this thread.

 

this thread.

 

a marvel of beauty and divinity in itself. may your fabulousness be eternal (and not drop to the void aka. page three) and may your glitter be ruthless. (would the elven pantheon be down with Ship Glitter To Your Enemies?).

 

---

 

ON ANDRASTE I always suspected she was just a very devious little mage who'd got a lot of help from somewhere, and the more I think about it the more it smacks of meddling - or 'nudging history' in a kind of Flemythal way. Given revelations of DA:I - also, how DA:I asa game itself is on the cover about Andraste but at core about elves - it's quite possible that was an elven feat. Flemeth doesn't meet Mythal until the Towers Age, so the god who contacted Andraste was quite possibly not Mythal, although it could possibly be her in another form, given Mythal's attempts to stop blights in the past (most recently with your Warden), and it's quite in character for her tbh to empower a hero which destroys an empire on the basis of a tonne of bollocks.

 

Given the connection with light and fire, other candidates for who spoke out to Andraste could be Sylaise or Elgar'nan. Could potentially also be Fen'Harel, given his sympathy with the teh rebelz. It's worth noting that the Chantry wasn't centralised as a core institutional power until years after Andraste and the life and movements circulating Andraste should probably not be taken as a direct attempt as state violence, to consolidate the power of nobles, opium of the poor masses, etc.

 

In my undergrad (which I have nearly finished, hohoho), I specialised in French revolutionary literature over Milton, so I can't quote excerpts of Paradise Lost. But I love the Apollo/Dionysus aesthetic going on: could the Forgotton Ones be failed Apollian cult-revolutionaries where the Elven Pantheon itself is exquisite chaotic destructive overindulgent Bacchic glory? Personally put Fen'Harel dancing between the two. Solas definitely has a deviant streak that peaks out in his (definitely drunk) conversation with him at Halamshiral. He's definitely cool with the machinations of power and scandal. He's probably the ur-class traitor imo.

[Raeona]

I don't like the idea that Flem-mythal is also Andraste, as awesome as she is, she can't be every significant female in history. The plebs need a chance to prove themselves too.

 

 

Thought: Do we know anything more about the forgotten ones? Did they ever actually exist or is that just invented Dalish myth?  Did we get a single mention of them in the Mythal temple or even Dirthamen's lovely little lair? Without a powerful enemy at some point why would Andruil bother with her spear of starlight WMD, unless of course that was just how she spent her weekends. I only ask because I like the idea of two crazy powerful pantheons slinging magical **** at each other while the little people scramble for cover and try not to get stepped on.

[S.W.]

I think Andraste is just a human who's been given advice/help/maybe a level-up from a god, rather than a vessel or some lesser deity. I don't think there's anything divine about her. Otherwise, she likely would have been able to save herself when she was burnt at the stake.

[In Exile]

What's fun is that this scene is in a crazy forest at night. Do you know what else happened to Andraste at night? She followed her half-sister into a forest and ~mysterious things~ happened which ended up with some villagers finding Andraste unconscious and sick in the morning, and her half-sister dead and mangled almost beyond recognition. With wounds that were not of any weapon. For the next 10 years Andraste was sickly and afterward declared it hearsay to talk about her half-sister at all.

 

This is especially interesting when you consider what happens to Connor if you let the desire demon have possession of the boy. He becomes sickly and frail for the next several years (I think it's also a decade) until he just disappears from Redcliffe.

 

Who's to say Andraste didn't get a +1 in Mythal before Flemeth? 

[myahele]

I don't have WoT2 yet, but from what I have heard, it seems as if Andraste planned on becoming a martyr from very early on. She believed that her sacrifice would spurn the rest of the world to her side in spreading the Chant of Light and that some people were reluctantly in on it, too.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Thought: Do we know anything more about the forgotten ones? Did they ever actually exist or is that just invented Dalish myth?  Did we get a single mention of them in the Mythal temple or even Dirthamen's lovely little lair? Without a powerful enemy at some point why would Andruil bother with her spear of starlight WMD, unless of course that was just how she spent her weekends. I only ask because I like the idea of two crazy powerful pantheons slinging magical **** at each other while the little people scramble for cover and try not to get stepped on.

 

JoH has a bit more about the Forgotten Ones.

Spoiler

Codex: Geldauran's Claim.  You find it in this creepy dungeon room.

 

The script is an ancient elven dialect. Upon further observation, it twists, the words becoming visible:

There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.

I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.

[myahele]

I posted this in another thread:
 
In some media(typcally when its about warring greek/roman gods), gods relied on the worship of man for their immortality and power; that more worship = more power and vice versa.
 
My guess is that elven "gods" were the same way: they needed veneration, blood sacrifices in their honor, slaves with their valaslin, etc to maintain their "godhood". Which is why Geldaurran don't consider them gods and that their powers "aren't their own" because their power if fueled by the people's worship of them.
 
Kinda like the "Gods need prayer badly" trope

Spoiler

"They were Gods once, but their worshipers either died out or were converted to the worship of other Gods. They wail and flutter around the edges of reality without substance or even thought. All they have is need. ... We go out of fashion, Sparhawk—like last year's gowns or old shoes and hats. The Powerless Ones are discarded Gods who shrink and shrink as the years go by until they're finally nothing at all but a kind of anguished wailing."
— The Goddess Aphrael, The Hidden City

In the world of fantasy, it is a largely accepted fact that the power of any given deity is proportional to the amount of belief in them or the amount of worship they are currently receiving.
The deity could have been originally conceived and shaped by the needs and desires of one small group but like any good meme, this 'idea' grows with each new person who responds, then spreads the word of this great new 'god on the block'. Soon, the deity has enough collective belief behind their 'name brand' that they come into existence, and use that power to fulfill the needs of their worshipers. In this sense, a god is a form of Tulpa, a thought form, made completely out of their worshiper's belief and faith in them.
The opposite is also true: As a deity's power base of worshipers shrinks, their divine strength fades and if all worship of them ceases, they may completely fade out of existence. The tragedy here is that worshipers who leave the god because he/she didn't grant their miracle will continuously weaken the god until they can't grant any miracles. It's kind of like a bank run on a god.
In a similar manner, the well-being of an Anthropomorphic Personification is often tied to whatever concept they personify. Big concepts like Fate or Death are pretty safe, but Disco is in critical condition.
A subtrope of Clap Your Hands If You Believe, which can be used to explain why Powers That Be care whether or not anyone worships them. In games where you play as a Physical God, this is often used as a game mechanic to explain why you can't just Deus ex Machina your way through everything. It can also be used by authors as a Take That against organized religion. Compare I'm Not Afraid of You, where smaller Anthropomorphic Personifications can be destroyed through disbelief.
Depending on the setting, the gods can often provide incentives for people to worship them. The gods of most typical Dungeons & Dragons games grant divine spells to their priests, which give them all kinds of fancy powers. Mortals and gods then end up in a symbiotic relationship, with the humans providing belief and worship to the gods and the gods providing assorted divine miracles in return.
This trope is related to Emotion Eater, but doesn't imply evil, vampirism, or negative emotions unless the god is tied in with those by nature. In belief systems of this kind, the empowered god often gives power back to his worshipers. Contrast Stop Worshipping Me, for when the god hates the worship they get.
This trope is dependent on a Physical Religion to entice prayer in the first place.

 
 
At the very least this seems true for powerful spirits:

[Caddius]

 

JoH has a bit more about the Forgotten Ones.

Spoiler

Codex: Geldauran's Claim.  You find it in this creepy dungeon room.

 

The script is an ancient elven dialect. Upon further observation, it twists, the words becoming visible:

There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.

I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.

 

I

 

 

JoH has a bit more about the Forgotten Ones.

Spoiler

Codex: Geldauran's Claim.  You find it in this creepy dungeon room.

 

The script is an ancient elven dialect. Upon further observation, it twists, the words becoming visible:

There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.

I am Geldauran, and I refuse those who would exert will upon me. Let Andruil's bow crack, let June's fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery.

 

In addition to that delicious Codex entry that I totally found myself in that DLC I totally spent the entire day playing that Sable has shared with everyone,  there's the strange 'Dalish' elves of the Tirashan in the Serault game. Namely, elves with red vallaslin and who shouted the names of gods that a soldier, quite familiar with the Dalish pantheon, didn't recognize.

So at least one Forgotten One wrote in the script of the Arlathan elves. Could be that it was the lingua franca of the day, or it could be that Geldauran was originally an elf. It seems to suggest that the gods were just elves that found a way to garner more power and establish themselves as deities. Meanwhile, Geldauran is 'forgotten', and builds up power far away before returning in villainous glory. Reminds me of the guy who tried to attain the divine draconic form and was exiled by the Creators. Geldauran or a cohort, I'd assume.

I've got to admit I like Geldauran's style.

[Tanyara]

http://dragonage.wik...Across_the_Sea"(Courtesy of the Solas thread)
DISCUSS.

       

 

I've always had some hope that there still might be elvhen cities across the sea. Eluvian travelling and all, shouldn't be impossible. And then we have all this with the Qunari "not having their own blood" or something (damn cryptic Kieran). My mind is going wild with theories of cross-"atlantic" elvhen experimenting with crossbreeding elves and dragons => qunari in some kind of effort to raise a strong army in their wars agains each other.

 

And maybe they saw the fall of Arlathan of went "Well, s**t. We'll just stay isolated over here and watch yer sorry a**es, m'kay?"

And with the elvhen hubris and all, they simply cannot refuse to meddle a lttle bit in the politics so they form a secret society "The Executors". I think they're mentioned in being responsible for the assassination of Queen Madrigal?

[Tanyara]

 

What exactly he intended by giving over the orb, though... thaaat, I'm curious about, and I legitly have nothing there.

 

Moreover I cannot wrap my head around why Solas gave the orb away. I know the "he hoped Corypheus would die trying to unlock it" theory, but I have a hard time to accept it like that. It's just so risky and without a plan B, which doesn't sound like Solas who gets mad at any shortsighted actions of others. So I hope he had a more elaborate plan. Anyway, he did it, and it did not work out as expected. But when Mythal confronts him he's not even surprised that she knows.

 

 

I think Solas mentions early in the game that "an explosion like this should have killed the wielder" or something like that. I believe that he gave the orb to Corypheus to unlock and that Solas counted on it killing him so that he could just snatch up the activated orb. Little did he know that Coryphe-spit does the archdemon thing and just hops into another body (probably one of the grey wardens). But I don't think Solas really counted on the Breach forming or the explosion being right in the middle of the conclave. Poor Dread Wolf, not really a good planner :/