242 réponses à ce sujet

[ThreeF]

You destroy the one in DA2 as well, and the only one that appears in one of the books gets wiped out too.

Oh yeah, forgot about Merill's.

[DanteYoda]

You destroy the one in DA2 as well, and the only one that appears in one of the books gets wiped out too.

Actually you only destroy it if you choose wrong in DA 2

[DanteYoda]

I recently found out that was a choice..

Of course you did

[ThreeF]

Actually you only destroy it if you choose wrong in DA 2

Well in DAO it's also a choice.

 

At any rate as far as elves go, where people see hate I see tragedy.

[ComedicSociopathy]

At any rate as far as elves go, where people see hate I see tragedy.

 

I concur.

 

They are the sore losers of history after all. 

[vertigomez]

Really? I think it's quite easy. Especially if you create something as an antagonist/punching bag.

If they were created as either of those things, you wouldn't have been able to be a Dalish PC in Origins. Slaughtering Zathrian's clan wouldn't have been considered morally repugnant by every Good™ companion AND Zevran. The Dalish being as f*cked up and backwards as everyone else in DA is not an insult to elf fans, anymore than the caste system or encroaching annihilation-via-darkspawn is an insult to dwarf fans, or qunari being a dragony test tube experiment is an insult to qunari fans.

If you actually created them, what if someone had been there then left created them, and you were forced to deal with them later?
 
Remember quite a few developers have worked on Dragon Age over the years.

I'm sure there are devs who aren't super excited about elves, just like there are probably devs who aren't super enthusiastic about Tevinter or whatever. Doesn't meant BioWare hates elves.

[Ryzaki]

So the elves being put on the same level as everyone else is hatred now?

 

Curious.

[Xilizhra]

If they were created as either of those things, you wouldn't have been able to be a Dalish PC in Origins. Slaughtering Zathrian's clan wouldn't have been considered morally repugnant by every Good™ companion AND Zevran. The Dalish being as f*cked up and backwards as everyone else in DA is not an insult to elf fans, anymore than the caste system or encroaching annihilation-via-darkspawn is an insult to dwarf fans, or qunari being a dragony test tube experiment is an insult to qunari fans.

The game's presentation tries to make the Dalish out as worse than everyone else, or at least worse than Andrastian humans, by inventing practices with mages that never had any hint of existing before and rubbing it in our faces at every opportunity, in addition to being crapped on by every character with an opinion about them, while many will still support Andrastianism, and even the qunari get support from someone in our party.

 

So the elves being put on the same level as everyone else is hatred now?

 

Curious.

That was the case in DAO. It's not now. If they were on the same level as everyone else here, we'd have a main quest where the objective was to help them.

[Shadow Fox]

Pretty much this.

 

Although... I must admit, in future games it would be a good idea for a character that is very pro Dalish, to the point of hating on every other race and being vocal about it.

 

And I know we've had Merrill.. so I'm thinking maybe a male, who's good with a bow and makes very racist statements, particularly about humans.

 

Think.. Sera, in reverse.

Velanna.

[TheJediSaint]

So the elves being put on the same level as everyone else is hatred now?

 

Curious.

No, no.  Their **** has always stunk like everyone else's.

 

It's hatred to point that out.

[General TSAR]

Indeed.

 

BioWare, stop being racist towards your fictional humanoids. 

[United Servo Academy Choir]

The premise of this thread seems sort of ironic, considering that all signs point to the whole series and any forthcoming "big reveals" being entirely centered on the elves. Everything comes back to damn elves. Bioware loves them.

 

I'm sort of sick of elves, in general. I want more dwarves.

[Shadow Fox]

If you were an elfy elf in romance with Sera you were stuck in a masochistic relationship, for some perhaps this was a deliberate and very exciting development, but I must wonder why the rest didn't run away at the first opportunity and sat and endured the whole affair.

Dominatrix Sera...

 

Oh god the images.

[vertigomez]

The game's presentation tries to make the Dalish out as worse than everyone else, or at least worse than Andrastian humans, by inventing practices with mages that never had any hint of existing before and rubbing it in our faces at every opportunity, in addition to being crapped on by every character with an opinion about them, while many will still support Andrastianism, and even the qunari get support from someone in our party.

I still really don't think this is the case-- or at least, it's not what it seems. The mage retcon is annoying, but other than that, everything is pointing to more big reveals about the ancient elves. Some of those are negative but not unexpected (slavery), and some positive (immortality wasn't blood magic, it was just part of being an elf). We're learning things in baby steps, and yeah, that's gonna be painful? But that's not all there is to it, and saying that the elves are getting crapped on and that's that!! is rather short-sighted.

The elves are getting fleshed out. That's pretty much the opposite of the writers hating them.

[Xilizhra]

The premise of this thread seems sort of ironic, considering that all signs point to the whole series and any forthcoming "big reveals" being entirely centered on the elves. Everything comes back to damn elves. Bioware loves them.

 

I'm sort of sick of elves, in general. I want more dwarves.

And maybe we'll even have reveals that don't systematically tear them down like Cole's daggers.

 

 

I still really don't think this is the case-- or at least, it's not what it seems. The mage retcon is annoying, but other than that, everything is pointing to more big reveals about the ancient elves. Some of those are negative but not unexpected (slavery), and some positive (immortality wasn't blood magic, it was just part of being an elf). We're learning things in baby steps, and yeah, that's gonna be painful? But that's not all there is to it, and saying that the elves are getting crapped on and that's that!! is rather short-sighted.

The elves are getting fleshed out. That's pretty much the opposite of the writers hating them.

That's not a positive reveal, that was just sticking to what the game had already said. Every single reveal about something that hadn't been previously established has been negative.

[ThreeF]

It's very much boils down to your interpretation though, I don't know why somebody (as in player) would feel the need to hate them, if nothing else I feel sorry for them.

[Andraste_Reborn]

We've had pro-Dalish companions before - Velanna and Merrill - and I'm sure we'll have more in the future. Not to mention that Zevran and Fenris were Dalish-neutral. (Fenris doesn't like Merrill, but he doesn't seem to have anything against her clan.) DAI is the first game where we've had elf companions that are anti-Dalish, and they both have good character reasons to feel that way. We heard the Dalish point of view in previous games, and there wasn't really room for it in DAI.

 

Anyway, I second the request for MOAR DWARVES. There have been six elven companions so far and only three dwarves. Ergo, BioWare hate dwarves twice as much as they hate elves and must redress the balance. (I've long thought it would be nice to have a dwarf companion that didn't decide the surface was the best thing ever the instant they got there, the way Oghren and Sigrun do.)

[Xilizhra]

We've had pro-Dalish companions before - Velanna and Merrill - and I'm sure we'll have more in the future. Not to mention that Zevran and Fenris were Dalish-neutral. (Fenris doesn't like Merrill, but he doesn't seem to have anything against her clan.) DAI is the first game where we've had elf companions that are anti-Dalish, and they both have good character reasons to feel that way. We heard the Dalish point of view in previous games, and there wasn't really room for it in DAI.

 

Anyway, I second the request for MOAR DWARVES. There have been six elven companions so far and only three dwarves. Ergo, BioWare hate dwarves twice as much as they hate elves and must redress the balance. (I've long thought it would be nice to have a dwarf companion that didn't decide the surface was the best thing ever the instant they got there, the way Oghren and Sigrun do.)

Velanna wasn't in one of the main games and only really existed to be the butt of jokes/criticism. And the anti-Dalish thing wasn't just through companions, but for the whole damn game, through people like Minaeve and Iron Bull's lying Charger (she had vallaslin; unless she developed magic absurdly late, she could not have been kicked out when her magic manifested).

[Farangbaa]

But Dwarfes are so... short

[Wulfram]

Bioware don't hate elves, they're just a bit over-fond of subversion and deconstruction.  Not that they aren't interesting tools. but when overused they become as tiresome as the original cliches

 

And I agree with whoever it is that said that for the series as a whole the lack of a pro-city elf elf is more striking

[vertigomez]

That's not a positive reveal, that was just sticking to what the game had already said. Every single reveal about something that hadn't been previously established has been negative.

It was a positive reveal because lots of people figured that the elves must've been engaging in some sort of unholy blood sacrifice, or at least morally-dubious spirit binding crap (ala Zathrian) in order to retain their immortality. Just because other people held fast to the notion that living forever was part of being elvhen doesn't invalidate that.

[Shadow Fox]

I meant that you can by accident destroy Lavellan clan, and you can by accident burn Denerim (though perhaps not to the ground) in the same fashion, oh and you can help attack on Kirkwall.

 

As far as I remember you can only actively destroy elven camp in DAO.

 

(I have not read the books or anything else outside of the games)

Yup

[Andraste_Reborn]

But Dwarfes are so... short

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

*is 5'4" ... almost*