825 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

Good point. Except no race in the galaxy can't even come close to Reaper tech level at the time of ME3. Crucible is the only project of such complexity and as Hackett states, the scientists barely understand what they have to do there. 

Reaper tech's been reverse-engineered ever since the cycle got its hand on Sovereign's corpse. It's frankly less BS of an excuse than "ohh this region of Milky Way just so happens to be unaffected by Crucible wave despite the whole galaxy being covered in it because reasons".

[AlanC9]

2. It allows you to construct new ideas for races, civilization hubs, conflicts, etc. A reboot that still takes place in the Milky Way  makes sense if you keep things like the Citadel and Mass Relays, but at that point it's too much of the same. A new galaxy allows you to try new things and establish new histories, since presumably it would take place enough in the future that any relocation of Milky Way residents to the new galaxy will have resulted in an up-and-running sense of civilization.

Note that you could get this result in other ways. There's plenty of room in the Milky Way for new civilizations, for instance.

On my end, the reason why I prefer new galaxy is because I hate alternate timelines. I despise them, and I'll never read an X-Men comic because of them.

What are the other options on the table? I'd take canonized anything over a new galaxy, myself. (Well, canonized anything except IT.) Though recent dev statements seem to rule this one out anyway.

I can deal with alternate timelines myself, but only in the context of time-travelling interference with the original timeline. Something like the Star Trek reboot or the Glorithverse period of the LSH, for instance.

[Heimdall]

Good point. Except no race in the galaxy can't even come close to Reaper tech level at the time of ME3. Crucible is the only project of such complexity and as Hackett states, the scientists barely understand what they have to do there.

And yet the Turians were able to reverse engineer Thanix Cannons from Sovereign's weapons, so it's established that reverse engineering Reaperr technology is possible, especially if they've been studying it since ME1.

[Heimdall]

Time-wise, while travelling at "Reaper speed" the Ark would reach Andromeda or Triangulum in about 250 years. But there are aso 2 Magellanic Cloud galaxies located MUCH closer to Milky Way, barely 16 years away at Reaper speed. Heck, they're visible to naked eye from Earth

A fair point, they don't even need to go that far (But they may want to, because Reapers)

[shepskisaac]

A fair point, they don't even need to go that far (But they may want to, because Reapers)

Or because Magellanic Clouds are not as... "sexy" as Andromeda or Triangulum lol    They would have to put some makeup on them cause they're not as spectacurly looking as 3 biggest galaxies in our Local Group.

[Vazgen]

And yet the Turians were able to reverse engineer Thanix Cannons from Sovereign's weapons, so it's established that reverse engineering Reaperr technology is possible, especially if they've been studying it since ME1.

Yeah, except even with those cannons mounted on dreadnoughts, the Reapers still annihilate even the united galactic fleet. Like I said, they can't even come close.

 

Reaper tech's been reverse-engineered ever since the cycle got its hand on Sovereign's corpse. It's frankly less BS of an excuse than "ohh this region of Milky Way just so happens to be unaffected by Crucible wave despite the whole galaxy being covered in it because reasons".

And why not? Seal off a portion of the galaxy by making the inhabitants deliberately damage or destroy a key relay to buy time before the Reaper arrival. The wave doesn't get there and the Council races are still present. They are also forced to activate dormant relays for new trade routes now that the Council space is inaccessible.  Personally, I find it less far-fetched than the whole Ark idea.

[shepskisaac]

 

Yeah, except even with those cannons mounted on dreadnoughts, the Reapers still annihilate even the united galactic fleet. Like I said, they can't even come close.

 

And why not? Seal off a portion of the galaxy by making the inhabitants deliberately damage or destroy a key relay to buy time before the Reaper arrival. The wave doesn't get there and the Council races are still present. They are also forced to activate dormant relays for new trade routes now that the Council space is inaccessible.  Personally, I find it less far-fetched than the whole Ark idea.

 

The ending shows Crucible wave from each relay having massive radious and covering entire galaxy. That's just how it is

[Heimdall]

Yeah, except even with those cannons mounted on dreadnoughts, the Reapers still annihilate even the united galactic fleet. Like I said, they can't even come close.

As I recall, those cannons were only mounted on a handful of ships. They couldn't be expected to turn the tide against the entire Reaper fleet over Earth. But considering the Turians were able to hold their own over Palaven, I wouldn't discount their effectiveness so readily.

But the point was to prove that, conceptually, reverse engineering Reaper tech is doable, even if it's not quite as powerful as the original it's still a good sight more powerful than standard FTL.

[CronoDragoon]

Note that you could get this result in other ways. There's plenty of room in the Milky Way for new civilizations, for instance.

 

I suppose so, but wouldn't the reasoning be identical: to avoid having to deal with ME3's endings and provide a fresh setting? If so, it seems to me a new galaxy represents a cleaner cut than a new setting in the Milky Way. It's also easier to market to new players, which always seems to be on BioWare's mind. "It's a new galaxy!" (plus, doesn't the Crucible wave spread basically everywhere in the Milky Way? Correct me if wrong).
 

 

I can deal with alternate timelines myself, but only in the context of time-travelling interference with the original timeline. Something like the Star Trek reboot or the Glorithverse period of the LSH, for instance.

 

Right, or Days of Future Past for X-Men.

[Iakus]

A few reasons:

 

1. It keeps whatever happened in the Milky Way as still having happened. While this is a negative to you, it is a positive to many for reasons that have nothing to do with an ending. There's a reason so many people dislike the constant reboots and AUs of comics, mostly because they feel it devalues the universe by not having one unified timeline.

2. It allows you to construct new ideas for races, civilization hubs, conflicts, etc. A reboot that still takes place in the Milky Way  makes sense if you keep things like the Citadel and Mass Relays, but at that point it's too much of the same. A new galaxy allows you to try new things and establish new histories, since presumably it would take place enough in the future that any relocation of Milky Way residents to the new galaxy will have resulted in an up-and-running sense of civilization.

 

But in the end, I have to ask you, why shouldn't they relocate? It seems to me the core of your entire preference is to erase what happened in the trilogy so you don't have to think about what happened during the Reaper war. I don't find that to be particularly compelling for why they shouldn't do a new galaxy instead.

 

On my end, the reason why I prefer new galaxy is because I hate alternate timelines. I despise them, and I'll never read an X-Men comic because of them.

 

1) True.  But at the same time, it's very limiting for the writers.  They can't do anything with real consequences as long as everyone has to start out at th esame point for the next game.

 

2) You can do the exact same thing in the Milky Way.  Only 1% of the galaxy had been explored by ME3, and we barely visited a fraction of that.  There's plenty of space fro new civilizations, alien species, worlds, etc.  And keep the relays, since that's a staple of the Mass Effect series

 

Galaxies are freaking BIG

 

 

Reaper tech's been reverse-engineered ever since the cycle got its hand on Sovereign's corpse. It's frankly less BS of an excuse than "ohh this region of Milky Way just so happens to be unaffected by Crucible wave despite the whole galaxy being covered in it because reasons".

 

Well, except the Reapers explicitly violate known physics by doing what they do:

 

Reaper power sources seem to violate known physical laws. Reapers usually destroy fuel infrastructure rather than attempting to capture it intact, indicating that Reapers do not require organic species' energy supplies. Consequently, the Reapers attack without regard for maintaining supply lines behind them, except to move husks from one planet to another. Unlike Citadel ships, Reapers do not appear to discharge static buildup from their drive cores, although they sometimes appear wreathed in static discharge when they land on planets.

 

Looks like organics would fry if they tried to do go too long without a discharge, even with Reaper tech.

[Iakus]

I suppose so, but wouldn't the reasoning be identical: to avoid having to deal with ME3's endings and provide a fresh setting? If so, it seems to me a new galaxy represents a cleaner cut than a new setting in the Milky Way. It's also easier to market to new players, which always seems to be on BioWare's mind. "It's a new galaxy!" (plus, doesn't the Crucible wave spread basically everywhere in the Milky Way? Correct me if wrong).
 

 

Except a new galaxy will be a reminder why we can't stay in the old galaxy.  It done broke.

 

Because yes, the Crucible wave does spread everywhere.  Wasteful, wasteful ending.

[shepskisaac]

Looks like organics would fry if they tried to do go too long without a discharge, even with Reaper tech.

Too much stacking charge would destroy electronic systems as well (thus Reapers) so obviously they got some workaround tech for that.

 

 

 

Except a new galaxy will be a reminder why we can't stay in the old galaxy.  It done broke.

 

Because yes, the Crucible wave does spread everywhere.  Wasteful, wasteful ending.

So will a reboot. Or prequel, or AU. Nothing will make those endings "go away" and nothing can downplay their impact other than straight-on sequel that incorporates all of its variables. Which ain't gonna happen. So better to pick "least worst" option

[Vazgen]

The ending shows Crucible wave from each relay having massive radious and covering entire galaxy. That's just how it is

Correction, the ending shows the Crucible wave covering half the galaxy. That's how it is

 

As I recall, those cannons were only mounted on a handful of ships. They couldn't be expected to turn the tide against the entire Reaper fleet over Earth. But considering the Turians were able to hold their own over Palaven, I wouldn't discount their effectiveness so readily.

But the point was to prove that, conceptually, reverse engineering Reaper tech is doable, even if it's not quite as powerful as the original it's still a good sight more powerful than standard FTL.

OK, cool, it is possible, I accept that. But let's take a look from another side. Designing ark ships to preserve all Council races will take time, especially when built from a scratch. To have it done in two years will require 1) belief in upcoming Reaper arrival (which should be impossible since Shepard stopped Sovereign) 2) a lot of money and resources. Who has that much power in the galaxy? Let's assume volus. Why and how will the construction be organized in such a way that no one knows about it, especially when galaxy uses all the available resources and scientists to build the Crucible? Not even the Shadow Broker knows about it. Next, why would the builders bother with preserving all races? And how are they going to secretly collect people from Reaper-controlled systems?

[shepskisaac]

 

Correction, the ending shows the Crucible wave covering half the galaxy. That's how it is

 

So they're gonna base a sequel on the assumtion that none of the KNOWN relays in upper half worked? That's would be just desperate grapsing for excuse to stay in the Milky Way, including major invalidation of ending choices heh

[CronoDragoon]

Except a new galaxy will be a reminder why we can't stay in the old galaxy.  It done broke.

 

Uh, the same logic applies to a reboot.

[Iakus]

 

 

So will a reboot. Or prequel, or AU. Nothing will make those endings "go away" and nothing can downplay their impact other than straight-on sequel that incorporates all of its variables. Which ain't gonna happen. So better to pick "least worst" option

ANd to me, "least worst" is AU.  Start over completely, since we can no longer continue the story anyway. 

[Iakus]

Uh, the same logic applies to a reboot.

So don't reboot.  Start over completely.  No Shepard.  No Reapers.  No prequel.  No sequel.  Keep the setting. 

[wright1978]

So don't reboot.  Start over completely.  No Shepard.  No Reapers.  No prequel.  No sequel.  Keep the setting.

How is starting over not a reboot. Personally I definitely don't want starting over and rewriting the universe absent of shep & co and the reapers.

[AlanC9]

Well, I can see not calling it a reboot. It's even worse than a reboot.

[Vazgen]

So they're gonna base a sequel on the assumtion that none of the KNOWN relays in upper half worked? That's would be just desperate grapsing for excuse to stay in the Milky Way, including major invalidation of ending choices heh

Why none? One will be enough. 

Primary mass relays can propel ships thousands of light years, often from one spiral arm of the galaxy to another. However, they have fixed one-to-one connections: a primary relay connects to one other primary relay, and nowhere else. Secondary relays can only propel ships a few hundred light years, however they are omnidirectional: a secondary relay can send a ship to any other relay within its limited range.

There are many dormant primary relays whose corresponding twins have not yet been located. These are left inactive until their partner is charted, as established civilizations are unwilling to blindly open a passage that might connect them to a hostile species.

 

One relay can be a key primary relay, the only connection between the two parts of mass relay network. Disable it and you seal away an entire section of the galaxy.

 

You can even incorporate ending choices if you wish. Have people learn of the Reaper War final from QEC communications and there can even be different reactions. Reapers destroyed - people rejoice and work on rebuilding the relay (they don't finish it in the game but the work is being done). Reapers controlled - mixed reactions, some oppose Shepard's overlord rule and don't want to have anything to do with it, others seek to restore economic relations with the rest of the galaxy. Synthesis - mixed reactions, some accept the idea, others oppose it and want to distance from those new "species". In the last two cases the relay repair process is on halt.

This will even allow to return to the known places from the trilogy in future installments.

[Iakus]

How is starting over not a reboot. Personally I definitely don't want starting over and rewriting the universe absent of shep & co and the reapers.

A reboot would be like the new Star Trek movies.  Same characters, same or very similar story. 

 

WHat I'm thinking of is more of an AU.  Same setting, but different characters and stories.

[Tython]

Drone- Actually the writer did bash them because their was no peer review. His post was taken down eventually and I'm not even sure you can find it but it was out there for awhile.

 

Bioware sticking to their guns did not help their image. Adding an even worse ending to the EC made it even worse.

 

I do think a lot of the positives of ME3 were its multiplayer so your point about people not really invested in the story is valid because of this.

[CronoDragoon]

A reboot would be like the new Star Trek movies.  Same characters, same or very similar story. 
 
WHat I'm thinking of is more of an AU.  Same setting, but different characters and stories.

 
That's what everyone means when they say reboot. No one thinks we'll be getting Shepard, Liara, and Garrus again.

Drone- Actually the writer did bash them because their was no peer review. His post was taken down eventually and I'm not even sure you can find it but it was out there for awhile.

Weekes didn't really bash anyone in that post. All he said was that the ending wasn't peer reviewed and it shows, but he's pretty complementary of Mac and Casey at the same time.

[katamuro]

Well you have to admit that they have to be civil and at least nominally supportive towards each other. They can't just accuse each other of incompetence and expect to be employed. So yeah they won't really say anything bad publicly. 

[CronoDragoon]

Well you have to admit that they have to be civil and at least nominally supportive towards each other. They can't just accuse each other of incompetence and expect to be employed. So yeah they won't really say anything bad publicly.

He wouldn't say anything bad publicly, you're right, but that doesn't mean Weekes secretly thinks they are incompetent, either. Considering he works with these people and may therefore actually like them and treat them like human beings, as well.