825 réponses à ce sujet

[Tython]

I guess I read too much into what Weekes said. He stated the dialogue from certain sections such as curing the genophage and others all led to moving the story forward. It was sharp, tight and great dialogue. The ending did not have that same quality. In fact, everything the starchild said was wrong. Most people were screaming for a dialogue option to say the Geth/Quarians were at peace, etc.

 

Anyway, as someone said what we post on these forums will go unnoticed by Bioware and they will whatever they want with the game anyway. Only thing we can control is if we buy it or not..

[CronoDragoon]

That's not really true. Each game they release demonstrably shows they listen to fan feedback. It's the reason the dude in your avatar got a romance.

[Iakus]

 
That's what everyone means when they say reboot. No one thinks we'll be getting Shepard, Liara, and Garrus again.
 

I wouldn't bet money on that 

[goishen]

A reboot would be like the new Star Trek movies.  Same characters, same or very similar story. 

 

WHat I'm thinking of is more of an AU.  Same setting, but different characters and stories.

 

 

That's not really what an alternate universe is though, at least in my mind's eye.  An alternate universe is like zombie movies from 28 Days to Night of The Living Dead to TWD series.

 

All the same basic premise, just some of the rules have changed.  28 Days can have zombies running, Night Of The Living Dead can have zombies using simple tools, and TWD can have neither except their strength is exceptional.

[Heimdall]

Correction, the ending shows the Crucible wave covering half the galaxy. That's how it is
 


OK, cool, it is possible, I accept that. But let's take a look from another side. Designing ark ships to preserve all Council races will take time, especially when built from a scratch. To have it done in two years will require 1) belief in upcoming Reaper arrival (which should be impossible since Shepard stopped Sovereign) 2) a lot of money and resources. Who has that much power in the galaxy? Let's assume volus. Why and how will the construction be organized in such a way that no one knows about it, especially when galaxy uses all the available resources and scientists to build the Crucible? Not even the Shadow Broker knows about it. Next, why would the builders bother with preserving all races? And how are they going to secretly collect people from Reaper-controlled systems?

Well, my personal version of Ark Theory actually involves a clandestine organization (Possibly with sympathizes in Citadel governments) either taking Shepard's initial warning to heart or knowing about the Reapers years before ME1. So they would have time to gather serious resources, possibly bartering places on the Ark for the expertise and materials they'd need. If the Alliance could hide the construction of the Crucible I think hiding the construction of a relatively speaking much smaller project isn't unreasonable. The only reason so many people knew Alliance was working on something was because of how ginormous it was. The Galaxy is a big place and it isn't impossible to keep secrets from the Shadow Broker (Case in point, the Thessia Beacon). Not every scientist and resource in the galaxy was working on the Crucible either. The Reaper War would be a kick in the pants to their development, not the start of it.

As to the passengers, they would have been assembling them for some time though there would be a rush to gather them during the Reaper's attack on the Galaxy certainly. Why preserve all races? Well, maybe the minds behind the project are just that idealistic.

Though there is another idea that the Ark settlers had planned to use the Citadel Relay to jumpstart their trip across the void and assembled their ships at the Citadel for that purpose. When the Reapers retook the Citadel just before Priority Earth, the Arks opened their doors to the people of the Citadel before making the jump (Which also opens the potential for returning characters that were on the Citadel)

[Vazgen]

Well, my personal version of Ark Theory actually involves a clandestine organization (Possibly with sympathizes in Citadel governments) either taking Shepard's initial warning to heart or knowing about the Reapers years before ME1. So they would have time to gather serious resources, possibly bartering places on the Ark for the expertise and materials they'd need. If the Alliance could hide the construction of the Crucible I think hiding the construction of a relatively speaking much smaller project isn't unreasonable. The only reason so many people knew Alliance was working on something was because of how ginormous it was. The Galaxy is a big place and it isn't impossible to keep secrets from the Shadow Broker (Case in point, the Thessia Beacon). Not every scientist and resource in the galaxy was working on the Crucible either. The Reaper War would be a kick in the pants to their development, not the start of it.

As to the passengers, they would have been assembling them for some time though there would be a rush to gather them during the Reaper's attack on the Galaxy certainly. Why preserve all races? Well, maybe the minds behind the project are just that idealistic.

Though there is another idea that the Ark settlers had planned to use the Citadel Relay to jumpstart their trip across the void and assembled their ships at the Citadel for that purpose. When the Reapers retook the Citadel just before Priority Earth, the Arks opened their doors to the people of the Citadel before making the jump (Which also opens the potential for returning characters that were on the Citadel)

The thing about Ark Theory is that even if all the preparations were made (which includes making up quite a few events, factions from the trilogy timeline that are not known to anyone) it will still take quite some time before all those people are able to 1) create a functioning travel network in the new galaxy 2) create enough colonies to be considered "important". There is also an issue of finding suitable planets, adapting them for different races etc. It will take a lot of time and a lot of new lore that will make those Ark residents look too awesome New galaxy is a complete unknown, they have no idea on what planets are there, are they suitable for life, what races live there (for they can easily be a race that will not take kindly to the refugee fleet from another galaxy). Ark ship to another galaxy is a huge gamble, one that can only pay with a very large amount of luck and time. I don't think the game set in an entirely new galaxy after that much time and obvious technological leaps will feel like Mass Effect to me. 

[Drone223]

 

Bioware sticking to their guns did not help their image. Adding an even worse ending to the EC made it even worse.

 

I do think a lot of the positives of ME3 were its multiplayer so your point about people not really invested in the story is valid because of this.

People wanted a refuse ending were the reaper's win, that's what they got. Bioware wanted the crucible being the only method of defeating the reaper's they've made that very clear from the start and its no surprise that they chose to stick to their guns and Bioware aren't the only ones to do so.

 

People were also interested in the story as well which is why Bioware released three SP add on's (excluding from ashes and EC). If people weren't invested in ME3's SP then Bioware wouldn't bother making them in the first place.

[WillieStyle]

It's not my preferred ending but Synthesis is the solution to the inherent organic/synthetic conflict

This is such a terrible argument. In the ME Galaxy, organics fight each other all the time. And we even have examples of synthetics fighting each other (EDI and the Geth vs. the Reapers). So what exactly would turning everyone into synthetic/organic hybrids solve?

Synthesis has always been the dumbest ending.

[themikefest]

I wouldn't bet money on that 

I wouldn't either. 

[Mcfly616]

This is such a terrible argument. In the ME Galaxy, organics fight each other all the time. And we even have examples of synthetics fighting each other (EDI and the Geth vs. the Reapers). So what exactly would turning everyone into synthetic/organic hybrids solve?

Synthesis has always been the dumbest ending.

 It's not an argument. It's a fact of the MEU. However, your argument is rather funny considering it's completely subjective.

 

And comparing ordinary conflicts between organic factions is rather irrelevant in light of the problem that's inherent in the nature of organics and synthetics. They cannot coexist. It's in their nature to destroy eachother. This was thoroughly explained by Leviathan and the Catalyst. Oh....and Javik. The game literally beats you over the head with it. If you don't want to hear it from the horses mouth, just continue to plug your ears and live in denial.

[WillieStyle]

 It's not an argument. It's a fact of the MEU. However, your argument is rather funny considering it's completely subjective.

 

And comparing ordinary conflicts between organic factions is rather irrelevant in light of the problem that's inherent in the nature of organics and synthetics. They cannot coexist. It's in their nature to destroy eachother. This was thoroughly explained by Leviathan and the Catalyst. Oh....and Javik. The game literally beats you over the head with it. If you don't want to hear it from the horses mouth, just continue to plug your ears and live in denial.

 

Huh?! There's nothing subjective about my argument.

 

Characters in the game keep making the claim that, because synthetics have repeatedly gone to war with organics, organics and synthetics cannot coexist.  Furthermore, this conflict is somehow uniquely relevant.  But the fact that characters in the game keep making a really ****** stupid argument doesn't make it any less ****** stupid.  

 

One could just as easily posit that because organics repeatedly go to war with organics, the uniquely relevant organic/organic conflict is inevitable.   Ergo, one must kill all organics or something.  Ugh!  The argument is so stupid it hurts to type it.

[Mcfly616]

Huh?! There's nothing subjective about my argument.

 

Characters in the game keep making the claim that, because synthetics have repeatedly gone to war with organics, organics and synthetics cannot coexist.  Furthermore, this conflict is somehow uniquely relevant.  But the fact that characters in the game keep making a really ****** stupid argument doesn't make it any less ****** stupid.  

 

One could just as easily posit that because organics repeatedly go to war with organics, the uniquely relevant organic/organic conflict is inevitable.   Ergo, one must kill all organics or something.  Ugh!  The argument is so stupid it hurts to type it.

 You must not know the definition of subjective. Carry on with your opinions though.

[goishen]

Huh?! There's nothing subjective about my argument.

 

Characters in the game keep making the claim that, because synthetics have repeatedly gone to war with organics, organics and synthetics cannot coexist.  Furthermore, this conflict is somehow uniquely relevant.  But the fact that characters in the game keep making a really ****** stupid argument doesn't make it any less ****** stupid.  

 

One could just as easily posit that because organics repeatedly go to war with organics, the uniquely relevant organic/organic conflict is inevitable.   Ergo, one must kill all organics or something.  Ugh!  The argument is so stupid it hurts to type it.

 

K, let's try this.  

 

How about in the previous cycle?  Ya know, the prothean cycle?  We don't know much about it, but we do know that organics were winning that war and the tide of battle was finally turning.  Remember, this is a cycle where everyone unified under one flag.   The prothean flag.

 

Then the reapers came and the protheans realized that "machines had passed them in ways we could never imagine".  Do you think AI is truly alive?  Do you think that they deserved to be bombed out of existence? 

[Tython]

Drone- The refuse ending people wanted and the one they got from Bioware are two very different things. Look I'm not trying to go back and forth with you on this and I get what you're saying but the fact is ME3's ending(s) are bad. They can release all the dlc's in the world and people would still buy them but it doesn't change the poor writing.

 

CronoDragoon- love your name. Didn't know Garrus' romance option was from fan feedback. Very nice. I guess they listen to some feedback and not others. The vast majority wanted endings similar to DAO and all the information prior to lauch said they were going to give us that and what we received was 3 color options and then an EC with an even worse ending.

 

Generally I don't trust Bioware to do the right thing by the fans anymore after ME3. Now DAI was awesome so my hope is ME Next helps heal the wound of how Shepards saga ended. That's probably the hope of all big ME fans that their faith is restored. Time will tell.

[Drone223]

Drone- The refuse ending people wanted and the one they got from Bioware are two very different things. Look I'm not trying to go back and forth with you on this and I get what you're saying but the fact is ME3's ending(s) are bad. They can release all the dlc's in the world and people would still buy them but it doesn't change the poor writing.

Bioware wanted the crucible to be the only way to defeat the reapers and refusing to use it was going to end in defeat that was never going to change. I'm not saying the writing in the endings is stellar but it I'm saying the writers intent wasn't changing.

[AlanC9]

Drone- The refuse ending people wanted and the one they got from Bioware are two very different things. Look I'm not trying to go back and forth with you on this and I get what you're saying but the fact is ME3's ending(s) are bad. They can release all the dlc's in the world and people would still buy them but it doesn't change the poor writing.

It's OK to want a Refuse victory, but are you saying that adding something that incoherent would have been better writing?

[TMA LIVE]

 My response still stands. I don't think the PC should always have a way out. Even if he really wants one. Especially if he really wants one.

 

The only reason why I think the PC should've had a way out is because majority of ME3 and ME2 and ME1 always had the way out options. Too many in fact. There was rarely any consequences. You could always come out on top. You only didn't if you intentionally tried to sabotage your playthrough. Only a few choices like Virmire had no way out, and you had to pick between Ash or Kaidan. But like I said, choices like this were rare in Mass Effect. If they had more of them from the get go, then yeah, maybe the current ending choices would be more accepted. But as is, for the ending to not have it seems unbalanced compared to the rest of the game when you think about how paragons with charm complete the Krogan and Quarian storylines.
 

 

Hmm. Ok, but if that's what you meant by the best outcome then "(a)nd yet with the ending, the best outcome is what the Reapers what. Not what you want." is a bit silly. Yeah, the Reapers want what the Reapers want, not necessarily what Shepard wants. What were you getting at there?

 

 

What I'm getting at is, for a game about making your own choices, making your own character, and in sense, making your own custom story, it should have an ending that fits the story you were building your character towards. And not having "the best outcome" for "your" specific Shepard is not the best way to end it. At least not for the people who didn't like the ending.

[CronoDragoon]

I wouldn't bet money on that 

 

Touche.

 

One could just as easily posit that because organics repeatedly go to war with organics, the uniquely relevant organic/organic conflict is inevitable.   Ergo, one must kill all organics or something.  Ugh!  The argument is so stupid it hurts to type it.

 

Sounds like a villain motivation I hear a lot. "The only way to avoid suffering is to destroy everything/become one!"

 

The Catalyst isn't actually destroying all organics though so it doesn't quite fit.

[Maniccc]

I think it's hilarious that some people actually sincerely believe Ark theory is a possibility....  It's just as silly, and as impossible, as the indoctrination theory.  This is what will happen:

 

Bioware is going to find some way, either through temporal distance or spatial distance (set on some tiny backwater planet) or both, to hand wave the three endings into a homogenized meaningless mush.  We will not go to another galaxy because that's just stupid.  Are we supposed to believe that all the ME races are in the other galaxy (or somehow magically traveled to one) too?  It's nonsense, even too nonsensical for Bioware.  They are not going to reboot anything, either, because they don't want to erase the trilogy.  So this leaves only one choice.  It's so obvious, I don't even know why people are still talking about it.  The only question is how badly will the homogenized mush be, and will the rest of the game overcome the garbage they are going to create.  Because despite the mess of just conflating all three endings into one ultimate point, it is the best choice they have going forward.

This is especially true since almost no one who bought the game cares anyway.

[TMA LIVE]

Well, there's always the possibility that some race, who could not defeat the Reapers invented a way to transport groups of them to another galaxy, and throughout the cycles, they abduct past cycles, and bring them to the new galaxy. Thus, when are N7 is dropped off, he finds asari, krogan, and new races from past cycles living in the "Lost" style galaxy.

[Maniccc]

Well, there's always the possibility that some race, who could not defeat the Reapers invented a way to transport groups of them to another galaxy, and throughout the cycles, they abduct past cycles, and bring them to the new galaxy. Thus, when are N7 is dropped off, he finds asari, krogan, and new races from past cycles living in the "Lost" style galaxy.

Like I said...too nonsensical even for Bioware.  

[TMA LIVE]

Like I said...too nonsensical even for Bioware.  

 Why's what? What's nonsense about being in a new galaxy?

[The Arbiter]

Canon is that the Crucible was used.

 

(I doubt Refuse will lead to anything really)

 

Hypothetically, in a literal view of what we saw, things could change enough between ME3 and NME that:

1)The galaxy is always rebuilt by the point of the next game, if 'sequel'

2)Reaper role is minimized. Ideas include the Reapers not existing in Destroy, the Reapers reducing in scale importance in Control, and the Reapers no longer even being 'Reapers' in Synthesis.

3)Synthesis green lines are just effects from the initial wave, and after that, in time, the effects fade more into the 'DNA'.

4)We have a united galaxy that advances in tech no matter what. We just decide how much and how fast, but it could always still lead to a generally similar enough galaxy state. Sure, more bizarre if Synthesis, more alien in Control, and more familiar in Destroy, but still similar enough.

 

 

I don't even believe what we saw was all literal (I'm a theorist), but I think it could be done. Whether it'd be done well or whether it should be done... well, I dunno.

Wouldn't including all possible outcomes from ME3 to ME4 become a development nightmare for Bioware or in particular... any developer in this planet?  but yeah you have a point with "Whether it'd be done well or whether it should be done... well, I dunno."

[The Arbiter]

A reboot would be like the new Star Trek movies.  Same characters, same or very similar story. 

 

WHat I'm thinking of is more of an AU.  Same setting, but different characters and stories.

The term you are looking for is "RESTART"

 

 

 

That's not really true. Each game they release demonstrably shows they listen to fan feedback. It's the reason the dude in your avatar got a romance.

 

I SUMMON BIOWARE EMPLOYEE IN THIS THREAD!

 

[WillieStyle]

K, let's try this.  

 

How about in the previous cycle?  Ya know, the prothean cycle?  We don't know much about it, but we do know that organics were winning that war and the tide of battle was finally turning.  Remember, this is a cycle where everyone unified under one flag.   The prothean flag.

 

Then the reapers came and the protheans realized that "machines had passed them in ways we could never imagine".  Do you think AI is truly alive?  Do you think that they deserved to be bombed out of existence? 

 

That doesn't really counter my point.  How did the Protheans unite all organics under their flag?  By killing (or threatening to kill) those organics who refused to join them.

 

So here's what we have: organics always seem to get into wars with organics.  Organics also seem to always get into war with synthetics. 

From the above, we can conclude that:

• Organics are inherently destined to be in conflict with synthetics, or
• Organics just really like fighting things (i.e. conflict is ingrained in the nature of organics), or
• All intelligent things that form us/them groups will invariably try to fight "them" (conflict is inherent to self awareness).

There is no logical reason whatsoever to insist that the first of these options is the correct one.  To not just assume that the first option is correct, but to kill trillions upon trillions of sentient beings based on that assumption is either insanity or gross stupidity.