825 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

The only reason why I think the PC should've had a way out is because majority of ME3 and ME2 and ME1 always had the way out options. Too many in fact. There was rarely any consequences. You could always come out on top. You only didn't if you intentionally tried to sabotage your playthrough. Only a few choices like Virmire had no way out, and you had to pick between Ash or Kaidan. But like I said, choices like this were rare in Mass Effect. If they had more of them from the get go, then yeah, maybe the current ending choices would be more accepted. But as is, for the ending to not have it seems unbalanced compared to the rest of the game when you think about how paragons with charm complete the Krogan and Quarian storylines.

Sure. Like I think I said upthread, I can see some merit in saying that the ME3 endings should have been designed the way the rest of the games were designed, even if that way was bad.
 
 

What I'm getting at is, for a game about making your own choices, making your own character, and in sense, making your own custom story, it should have an ending that fits the story you were building your character towards. And not having "the best outcome" for "your" specific Shepard is not the best way to end it. At least not for the people who didn't like the ending.

This strikes me as being pretty much the last thing I want from an RPG. When I play my character, I don't want to think about building a story -- that would pretty much require me to think about things in a way my character wouldn't. At least, I don't do this until playthrough four or five, when I'll metagame to reach the content I haven't seen yet.

It's already bad enough that I know there has to be some way to "win" because this is an AAA title.

[wright1978]

The thing about Ark Theory is that even if all the preparations were made (which includes making up quite a few events, factions from the trilogy timeline that are not known to anyone) it will still take quite some time before all those people are able to 1) create a functioning travel network in the new galaxy 2) create enough colonies to be considered "important". There is also an issue of finding suitable planets, adapting them for different races etc. It will take a lot of time and a lot of new lore that will make those Ark residents look too awesome New galaxy is a complete unknown, they have no idea on what planets are there, are they suitable for life, what races live there (for they can easily be a race that will not take kindly to the refugee fleet from another galaxy). Ark ship to another galaxy is a huge gamble, one that can only pay with a very large amount of luck and time. I don't think the game set in an entirely new galaxy after that much time and obvious technological leaps will feel like Mass Effect to me. 

 

I've always assumed if the Ark theory does turn out to be real, we would be part of the newly arrived pioneer settlement and our exploration would be the actual exploration of this new galaxy rather than set hundreds of years post settlement.

[katamuro]

I've always assumed if the Ark theory does turn out to be real, we would be part of the newly arrived pioneer settlement and our exploration would be the actual exploration of this new galaxy rather than set hundreds of years post settlement.

 

And that would be pretty bad, I do not want ME:Voyager. Even trekkies I know agree that it was not the best show. And that is not what the ME universe is about. The whole thing about relays, settled planets, uncharted planets off the used relay network, that gives it both the galactic civilization and uncharted parts. Both sides are important, not just as a contrast but also as a way of making it clear that the galaxy is a large place. Humans managed to settle a few planets before they made first contact and quite a lot of the relay network just sits there unused.

[The Arbiter]

And that would be pretty bad, I do not want ME:Voyager. Even trekkies I know agree that it was not the best show. And that is not what the ME universe is about. The whole thing about relays, settled planets, uncharted planets off the used relay network, that gives it both the galactic civilization and uncharted parts. Both sides are important, not just as a contrast but also as a way of making it clear that the galaxy is a large place. Humans managed to settle a few planets before they made first contact and quite a lot of the relay network just sits there unused.

But the ultimate question still remains... how will ME4 begin? is it after the Reaper war? if so what is the fate of the Milky Way? what did Shepard choose? No canon ending? MAKE IF VAGUE THAT WOULD BE A CANON BEGINNING or FLY INTO A GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY! how so? - this would prompt or bug the hell out of me in ME4 trying to scout for evidences involving the past Trilogy instead of playing the game... Reaper remains, signs of green eyes or if the Geth still exists... I would become insane trying to solve ME3 instead of enjoying ME4... Bioware what have you done?

[goishen]

We don't know.   All we have is speculation and theories right now.

 

Some optimistic some pessimistic.  But I hope that everybody will enjoy the game.  I know I will.

[The Arbiter]

We don't know.   All we have is speculation and theories right now.

 

Some optimistic some pessimistic.  But I hope that everybody will enjoy the game.  I know I will.

Well enjoy... I miss Borderlands 2 because of this topic... pointless game story is about shooting anything and looting everything in every galaxy... I cry evrytiem

[wright1978]

And that would be pretty bad, I do not want ME:Voyager. Even trekkies I know agree that it was not the best show. And that is not what the ME universe is about. The whole thing about relays, settled planets, uncharted planets off the used relay network, that gives it both the galactic civilization and uncharted parts. Both sides are important, not just as a contrast but also as a way of making it clear that the galaxy is a large place. Humans managed to settle a few planets before they made first contact and quite a lot of the relay network just sits there unused.

 

I thought the concept of Voyager was interesting but the application was horrid.

So i'm not completely against taking the races out of their comfort zone and placing them in such a scenario.

Certainly preferable to many of the workarounds, canonisings, reboots, AU's etc that have been suggested to deal with the mess and create a sequel.

[Balsam Beige]

But the ultimate question still remains... how will ME4 begin? is it after the Reaper war? if so what is the fate of the Milky Way? what did Shepard choose? No canon ending? MAKE IF VAGUE THAT WOULD BE A CANON BEGINNING or FLY INTO A GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY! how so? - this would prompt or bug the hell out of me in ME4 trying to scout for evidences involving the past Trilogy instead of playing the game... Reaper remains, signs of green eyes or if the Geth still exists... I would become insane trying to solve ME3 instead of enjoying ME4... Bioware what have you done?

That's my greatest fear. That the baggage of the trilogy is continued in MENext making the game not enjoyable. The new writers need freedom and do not need to be hindered with more attempts to make sense of it all. Mac being in charge of the entire project is concerning.

[shepskisaac]

 

One relay can be a key primary relay, the only connection between the two parts of mass relay network. Disable it and you seal away an entire section of the galaxy.

 

But u do realize that upper half of the galaxy not getting covered in Crucble wave means that there are REAPERS in that upper half still wrecking havoc?

 

 

The thing about Ark Theory is that even if all the preparations were made (which includes making up quite a few events, factions from the trilogy timeline that are not known to anyone) it will still take quite some time before all those people are able to 1) create a functioning travel network in the new galaxy 2) create enough colonies to be considered "important". There is also an issue of finding suitable planets, adapting them for different races etc. It will take a lot of time and a lot of new lore that will make those Ark residents look too awesome New galaxy is a complete unknown, they have no idea on what planets are there, are they suitable for life, what races live there (for they can easily be a race that will not take kindly to the refugee fleet from another galaxy). Ark ship to another galaxy is a huge gamble, one that can only pay with a very large amount of luck and time. I don't think the game set in an entirely new galaxy after that much time and obvious technological leaps will feel like Mass Effect to me. 

Extinction is more than enough reason to take any gamble. Shipping an ark with Milky Way races either in cry-pods or frozen embryo seems like a no brainer thing to do, what other options are there exactly in case Reapers win?

 

As for functioning travel network, you're assuming the ark would arrive to an empty/technologically inadvanced galaxy, no one ever said that. It could very well have its own travel system built but its native inhabitants. It could have Leviathans or other Milky Way race that escaped to it before this cycle. =

[The Arbiter]

That's my greatest fear. That the baggage of the trilogy is continued in MENext making the game not enjoyable. The new writers need freedom and do not need to be hindered with more attempts to make sense of it all. Mac being in charge of the entire project is concerning.

They should announce it already if they are planning a solid restart or a freaking sequel or something... if they do announce a restart that would shut me the hell up

[goishen]

Guess you'll just have to wait, like the rest of us.  The only thing that could excite me more at this point about some ME:N news is the actual game.

 

Well, relatively.  Cute girl, ...   You know where I'm going with this.

[Vazgen]

But u do realize that upper half of the galaxy not getting covered in Crucble wave means that there are REAPERS in that upper half still wrecking havoc?

I'm not talking about systems of the trilogy. We've only seen a small part of mass relay network. Example - a relay in Titan Nebula leads to another one in another part of the galaxy. The other one is deliberately damaged/destroyed. The other part of the galaxy is sealed away. Reapers stay in Titan Nebula and get affected by the Crucible wave. You won't be able to visit any place from the original trilogy in my suggestion. 

[shepskisaac]

You won't be able to visit any place from the original trilogy in my suggestion. 

I get that. But how is this different and better solution than new galaxy? In the end it's all new locations. No homeworlds, no Ilum, no Citadel, Omega, nada. Shipping an ark just seems way more plausible than a relay getting conviniently broken.

[Vazgen]

I get that. But how is this different and better solution than new galaxy? In the end it's all new locations. No homeworlds, no Ilum, no Citadel, Omega, nada. Shipping an ark just seems way more plausible than a relay getting conviniently broken.

Here is how it is better - there are already established colonies beyond the broken relay. All the races of the trilogy can be there, even quarians (Idenna exploration ship) and krogan. There is no need to build a new travel network between clusters. New races can still be discovered - no connection to Citadel space requires new economic partners and resources - dormant relays are being activated and charted. There is also the potential to return to the places of the original trilogy in the future installments and the potential to acknowledge player choices via something like DA: Keep. 

Having one relay be conveniently (deliberately?) broken seems much more plausible to me than establishing an infrastructure from scratch in an entirely new galaxy.

[shepskisaac]

Here is how it is better - there are already established colonies beyond the broken relay. All the races of the trilogy can be there, even quarians (Idenna exploration ship) and krogan. There is no need to build a new travel network between clusters. New races can still be discovered - no connection to Citadel space requires new economic partners and resources - dormant relays are being activated and charted. There is also the potential to return to the places of the original trilogy in the future installments and the potential to acknowledge player choices via something like DA: Keep. 

Having one relay be conveniently (deliberately?) broken seems much more plausible to me than establishing an infrastructure from scratch in an entirely new galaxy.

Personally I think this would be stepping on ME3 ending choices way more than swapping to different galaxy. It all steps on ME3 endings in a way to avoid them, but at least different galaxy would leave Milky Way fully impacted by the choices and everyone living there. Plus, there's the issue of a 'barrier' to stay away from known locations. If we're still in Milky Way, we need relays to stay broken for the premise to hold. Different galaxy would have a more "natural" barrier of distance as the reason why we can't just flip a button and jump to Illum.

[Vazgen]

Personally I think this would be stepping on ME3 ending choices way more than swapping to different galaxy. It all steps on ME3 endings in a way to avoid them, but at least different galaxy would leave Milky Way fully impacted by the choices and everyone living there. Plus, there's the issue of a 'barrier' to stay away from known locations. If we're still in Milky Way, we need relays to stay broken for the premise to hold. Different galaxy would have a more "natural" barrier of distance as the reason why we can't just flip a button and jump to Illum.

Except you won't see or feel that impact at all. You won't even know what happened there.

As for the natural barrier, the endings already provide one - the destruction/damage of the relays. EC slides show them being fixed but in what time is unknown. They can easily set multiple games while the relays are still being rebuilt. This barrier is actually "stronger" than different galaxy because in the case of a latter there is a theoretical possibility to head back in the same ark ships. 

In the end it all depends on how far will they be able to push the suspension of disbelief in order to move forward in the timeline. IMO, the less, the better and ark theory really pushes the boundaries for me. 

[shepskisaac]

This barrier is actually "stronger" than different galaxy because in the case of a latter there is a theoretical possibility to head back in the same ark ships. 

Not on a scale of a gameplay. Travelling to Magellanic Cloud galaxies at Reaper speed takes 16 years, even if it was an option it would still be a big decision for anyone to return to the Milky Way and obviously wouldn't be a priority compared to new settlements. And if it's Andromeda or Triangulum, the time goes up to 250+ years

[Vazgen]

Not on a scale of a gameplay. Travelling to Magellanic Cloud galaxies at Reaper speed takes 16 years, even if it was an option it would still be a big decision for anyone to return to the Milky Way and obviously wouldn't be a priority compared to new settlements. And if it's Andromeda or Triangulum, the time goes up to 250+ years

Sure, and in my suggestion there is no possibility to get to the known galaxy on the gameplay scale either. In the ark theory there is a technological possibility though. In my suggestion, there is not.

[katamuro]

I thought the concept of Voyager was interesting but the application was horrid.

So i'm not completely against taking the races out of their comfort zone and placing them in such a scenario.

Certainly preferable to many of the workarounds, canonisings, reboots, AU's etc that have been suggested to deal with the mess and create a sequel.

 

Exactly, the concept is cool, but the way its handled is not and I think that in a game that is so much shorter than the seasons of Voyager they would not be able to get it right either. Its an idea with possibilities the size of an ocean and I would rather not try to cross it in a dinghy with a pack of crackers for company.

 

They should announce it already if they are planning a solid restart or a freaking sequel or something... if they do announce a restart that would shut me the hell up

They wont announce anything until the they announce a release day and they probably are going to keep a tight lid on the details right up until they can give copies to the reviewers considering how it went last time. Thats just my feeling on what they are going to do. 

[The Arbiter]

Exactly, the concept is cool, but the way its handled is not and I think that in a game that is so much shorter than the seasons of Voyager they would not be able to get it right either. Its an idea with possibilities the size of an ocean and I would rather not try to cross it in a dinghy with a pack of crackers for company.

 

They wont announce anything until the they announce a release day and they probably are going to keep a tight lid on the details right up until they can give copies to the reviewers considering how it went last time. Thats just my feeling on what they are going to do. 

 

Let me ask you about something... are you "excited" for the next Mass Effect? me? I feel... well scared and confused...I would kinda feel like this when Bioware would finally announce Mass Effect 4 release date and lore  this coming E3:

 

[katamuro]

My feelings would be best described as a feeling of impending doom yet with a grain of hope that it might not be the end. Kinda like ME3. 

[Iakus]

Sure. Like I think I said upthread, I can see some merit in saying that the ME3 endings should have been designed the way the rest of the games were designed, even if that way was bad.
 
 

The way you say it tends to be extremely dismissive if not outright condescending.

 

 

 

It's already bad enough that I know there has to be some way to "win" because this is an AAA title.

For example...

[katamuro]

Why do people look down and underestimate the more traditional endings? If it fits the narrative and the theme then why not? Why invent some kind of insane plot twist just to assure yourself that you are smart enough to do it? Why go for something crazy when the non-crazy variant works and works well? After all you do not go kite-surfing during a storm just because its faster and more "exciting".

[ForgottenWarrior]

I can hardly imagine this happening. A few Codex entrys with explanation why all the things are the same, most likely.

[Han Shot First]

I can hardly imagine this happening. A few Codex entrys with explanation why all the things are the same, most likely.

 

Dev statements heavily imply that this won't be a direct sequel. Besides not referring to the next game as Mass Effect 4, one former Bioware employee even griped about fans being wrong for using it. And in the time that has passed since this game was first announced, Bioware has repeatedly stated that Shepard's story is over and the next game won't be tied to the previous trilogy or to prior saves. All the signs are pointing to the next game being anything but a direct sequel.