825 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

Now you sound like casper, big fan of him?

 

 

You do realize that the Geth Quarian conflict only ended in peace because of Shepard, who is essentially the first being in the galaxy's history to pull that off....the weight of evidance is not on your side.

 

As for the second picture....it has absolutely Zero relevance to mass effects since it's an entirely different universe with a different set of rules/history, and worse that only happened because a human reprogrammed the machine to protect and obey a child, in that order.

[The Arbiter]

You do realize that the Geth Quarian conflict only ended in peace because of Shepard, who is essentially the first being in the galaxy's history to pull that off....the weight of evidance is not on your side.

 

As for the second picture....it has absolutely Zero relevance to mass effects since it's an entirely different universe with a different set of rules/history, and worse that only happened because a human reprogrammed the machine to protect and obey a child, in that order.

First of all the fact that SHEPARD brokered PEACE is enough "evidance" to destroy all reasoning and arguments of your hero Casper and you still insists that I dont have prima facie evidance? hahaha deny to death just like in the court room. Not only the Geth but EDI! A rouge AI for crying out loud was thought by Shepard and Jeff how to live and co-exist with organics and besides the Quarians acted in haste!

 

Second the picture is never meant for MASS EFFECT

 

[Mcfly616]

First of all the fact that SHEPARD brokered PEACE is enough "evidance" to destroy all reasoning and arguments of your hero Casper 

 "The peace won't last...."

[The Arbiter]

 "The peace won't last...."

says who? Casper? his dead unless in ME:N we open an unkown relay to a hostile world filled with some kind of other synthetics created by an unknown Organic long before the Protheans then yeah but it would seem... repetitive I don't think there is another Synthetic in existence which supersede the Reapers in terms of threat level. The next installment would probably have Organics learned from past experience on how to deal with synthetics better! if they are deciding for a Sequel if they go for the same plot in a Sequel, Reboot or Restart then I would activate the Halo array

[Iakus]

 "The peace won't last...."

The peace never lasts.   Conflict comes, conflict goes.  Time marches on.

 

The Bratalsyst might as well be saying "It will rain again, someday"

[Mcfly616]

says who? Casper? his dead unless in ME:N we open an unkown relay to a hostile world filled with some kind of other synthetics created by an unknown Organic long before the Protheans then yeah but it would seem... repetitive I don't think there is another Synthetic in existence which supersede the Reapers in terms of threat level. The next installment would probably have Organics learned from past experience on how to deal with synthetics better! if they are deciding for a Sequel if they go for the same plot in a Sequel, Reboot or Restart then I would activate the Halo array

 says the entity that's been observing the galaxy for a billion years. Doesn't matter if there's not synthetics more advanced than the Reapers. Synthetics eventually surpass their creators. With no Reapers around the next time this inevitably happens, there will be nothing to nullify it. No Reapers to deter the extinction of all sentient life.

[Mcfly616]

The peace never lasts.   Conflict comes, conflict goes.  Time marches on.

 

The Bratalsyst might as well be saying "It will rain again, someday"

 Not the point. Conflicts may come and go but within the MEU the inherent organic/synthetic conflict is a constant.

 

 

Normal conflicts tend to be over land, food, politics. They tend to lead to treaties, concessions, secessions etc. Not the case with the organic/synthetic problem. When peace doesn't last with organics and synthetics, the torch of life is threatened to be extinguished. 

 

 

 

You may not like the concept or its presentation, but if you can't acknowledge the significance of this specific conflict in the MEU, it's simply denial.

[Nohvarr]

First of all the fact that SHEPARD brokered PEACE is enough "evidance" to destroy all reasoning and arguments of your hero Casper and you still insists that I dont have prima facie evidance?

Caspers not my hero...but he makes a fair point, this has been going on for Billions of years and just this ONCE things turned out well. There is no guarantee that the next synthetic life that will be created shall go the same way.

 

hahaha deny to death just like in the court room. Not only the Geth but EDI! A rouge AI for crying out loud was thought by Shepard and Jeff how to live and co-exist with organics and besides the Quarians acted in haste!

 

....a Rogue AI that started out trying to kill Shepard and was then rebuilt by Cerberus into it's current form vs Billions of years of Synthetics turning on their masters...odds are not in your favor here.

 

Second the picture is never meant for MASS EFFECT

 

Since we are talking about the Mass Effect universe that picture has no relevance. I could post pictures of C3PO it it would mean exactly the same thing to this discussion...which is nothing.

[The Arbiter]

Caspers not my hero...but he makes a fair point, this has been going on for Billions of years and just this ONCE things turned out well. There is no guarantee that the next synthetic life that will be created shall go the same way.

 

 

 

 

....a Rogue AI that started out trying to kill Shepard and was then rebuilt by Cerberus into it's current form vs Billions of years of Synthetics turning on their masters...odds are not in your favor here.

 

 

 

 

Since we are talking about the Mass Effect universe that picture has no relevance. I could post pictures of C3PO it it would mean exactly the same thing to this discussion...which is nothing.

[Mcfly616]

Snip

 That meme alone demonstrates your lack of comprehension regarding the Reapers, their purpose, and the endings.

[The Arbiter]

 Not the point. Conflicts may come and go but within the MEU the inherent organic/synthetic conflict is a constant.

 

 

Normal conflicts tend to be over land, food, politics. They tend to lead to treaties, concessions, secessions etc. Not the case with the organic/synthetic problem. When peace doesn't last with organics and synthetics, the torch of life is threatened to be extinguished. 

 

 

 

You may not like the concept or its presentation, but if you can't acknowledge the significance of this specific conflict in the MEU, it's simply denial.

War comes in many forms. CREATED WILL NOT ALWAYS REBEL AGAINST THE CREATORS that is the most BS theory I have ever heard in my entire life. If my computer suddenly asks me if it has a soul or what the hell it's purpose is then it becomes self aware then yes I would make it understand. If things starts to become like TERMINATOR then yes another war would break out if and ONLY IF the Synthetics takes the first shot. HOWEVER, after the events of ME3 and provided we take the path of Destroy as canon I AM 100% sure that no stupid Organics would want to try to re-create the same problem all over again. If they do decide to create synthetics they will have better preventive mechanism in place to prevent another war like what's that called? "LAWS AND SANCTIONS"

[Mcfly616]

 If things starts to become like TERMINATOR then yes another war would break out if and ONLY IF the Synthetics takes the first shot. HOWEVER, after the events of ME3 and provided we take the path of Destroy as canon I AM 100% sure that no stupid Organics would want to try to re-create the same problem all over again. If they do decide to create synthetics they will have better preventive mechanism in place to prevent another war like what's that called? "LAWS AND SANCTIONS"

"ONLY IF the Synthetics take the first shot"

 

.....you mean like the Geth? Oh right. That didn't happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I AM 100% sure that no stupid Organics would want to try to re-create the same problem all over again"

 

Because they tried to create it the first time around? Nope. But it happened. And even if some accidentally give birth to AI, Cerberus and Project Overlord have already proven that their will always be someone interested in purposely developing AI. 

 

 

Not to mention, Shepard is the only soul who even knows the whole picture. He is the only being to discover the purpose of the cycles and the motivations of the Reapers. His knowledge does not apply to those people who are simply survivors of the war. They weren't up there. Kinda hard to prevent recreating a problem when you don't know what the problem is or are even aware that one exists.

[Nohvarr]

War comes in many forms. CREATED WILL NOT ALWAYS REBEL AGAINST THE CREATORS that is the most BS theory I have ever heard in my entire life. If my computer suddenly asks me if it has a soul or what the hell it's purpose is then it becomes self aware then yes I would make it understand. If things starts to become like TERMINATOR then yes another war would break out if and ONLY IF the Synthetics takes the first shot. HOWEVER, after the events of ME3 and provided we take the path of Destroy as canon I AM 100% sure that no stupid Organics would want to try to re-create the same problem all over again. If they do decide to create synthetics they will have better preventive mechanism in place to prevent another war like what's that called? "LAWS AND SANCTIONS"

You have not being paying much attention to human behavior let along the history of the universe in mass effect have you? Do you notice that humanity seems to fear it's machines turning on it? I mean Issace Asmimov created his three laws because he was tired of stories where machines run amok. Even today you still see a lot of stories dealing with something we created (machines, medical tech etc) somehow turning on us. So where as YOU might be willing to talk with your computer a good portion of humanity would immediately smash it with the nearest blunt object.

 

As for no one creating machines after the vents of ME...history repeats though mortals refuse to see. I mean the Salarians uplifted the Krogan...which backfired....yet they are still running trials on uplifting new species in their STG facility, Cerberus funded Project Overlord and the creation of EDI despite all the warnings about the dangers of of AI...the Alliance was pushing VI tech to near AI levels in the very first ME book to give humanity an edge against the other races.

 

Laws and sanctions are nice....but an organic determined to continue their research will find away around them, and you are once again fighting a synthetic enemy.

[The Arbiter]

"ONLY IF the Synthetics take the first shot"

 

.....you mean like the Geth? Oh right. That didn't happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I AM 100% sure that no stupid Organics would want to try to re-create the same problem all over again"

 

Because they tried to create it the first time around? Nope. But it happened. And even if some accidentally give birth to AI, Cerberus and Project Overlord have already proven that their will always be someone interested in purposely developing AI. 

 

 

Not to mention, Shepard is the only soul who even knows the whole picture. He is the only being to discover the purpose of the cycles and the motivations of the Reapers. His knowledge does not apply to those people who are simply survivors of the war. They weren't up there. Kinda hard to prevent recreating a problem when you don't know what the problem is or are even aware that one exists.

That's why I said wars comes in many forms it can be started by the SYNTHETIC or the ORGANICS if they suddenly becomes hostile for no apparent reason in ME:N or in my case if my COMPUTER DECIDES TO SHOOT MY FAMILY in my example that's why I said if  ONLY THE SYNTHETICS TAKES THE FIRST SHOT I was referring to my example not the Geth Quarian war

 

About your last sentence. I have not claimed that NO BODY ELSE WOULD CREATE SYNTHETICS there will always be someone who will that is why again WE HAVE LAWS and Sanctions to prevent or REGULATE or LIMIT such operations to prevent another disaster. I am sure the survivors of the REAPER war will learn see the whole picture the same way Shepard did about why and how it all started that is why again they will and must CREATE MOTHER F****** LAWS to prevent it from happening again!

[The Arbiter]

You have not being paying much attention to human behavior let along the history of the universe in mass effect have you? Do you notice that humanity seems to fear it's machines turning on it? I mean Issace Asmimov created his three laws because he was tired of stories where machines run amok. Even today you still see a lot of stories dealing with something we created (machines, medical tech etc) somehow turning on us. So where as YOU might be willing to talk with your computer a good portion of humanity would immediately smash it with the nearest blunt object.

 

As for no one creating machines after the vents of ME...history repeats though mortals refuse to see. I mean the Salarians uplifted the Krogan...which backfired....yet they are still running trials on uplifting new species in their STG facility, Cerberus funded Project Overlord and the creation of EDI despite all the warnings about the dangers of of AI...the Alliance was pushing VI tech to near AI levels in the very first ME book to give humanity an edge against the other races.

 

Laws and sanctions are nice....but an organic determined to continue their research will find away around them, and you are once again fighting a synthetic enemy.

You mean like how the United States bombarded Iraq for no apparent reason fearing that Iraq would bombard the United States and disregarding International Law? yes I know it pretty well

[Mcfly616]

That's why I said wars comes in many forms it can be started by the SYNTHETIC or the ORGANICS if they suddenly becomes hostile for no apparent reason in ME:N or in my case if my COMPUTER DECIDES TO SHOOT MY FAMILY in my example that's why I said if  ONLY THE SYNTHETICS TAKES THE FIRST SHOT I was referring to my example not the Geth Quarian war

 

About your last sentence. I have not claimed that NO BODY ELSE WOULD CREATE SYNTHETICS there will always be someone who will that is why again WE HAVE LAWS and Sanctions to prevent or REGULATE or LIMIT such operations to prevent another disaster. I am sure the survivors of the REAPER war will learn see the whole picture the same way Shepard did about why and how it all started that is why again they will and must CREATE MOTHER F****** LAWS to prevent it from happening again!

 Wars do come in many forms, however none is a constant like the organic/synthetic problem within the MEU. The same conflict occurs. Like clockwork. The Geth didn't become hostile for no reason. Your example doesn't hold water. It's unsubstantiated and completely unsupported speculation on your part.

 

 

You are "sure". Too bad you have no way of being sure. Nor any reason to be. They can't see the whole picture if they don't have the information. Nobody has that information but Shepard and the Catalyst. 

[Nohvarr]

You mean like how the United States bombarded Iraq for no apparent reason fearing that Iraq would bombard the United States and disregarding International Law? yes I know it pretty well

So you admit that organics act irrationally yet insist that they wouldn't do so here......You're not making much sense.

[The Arbiter]

 The Geth didn't become hostile for no reason. Your example doesn't hold water. It's unsubstantiated and completely unsupported speculation on your part.

 

 

You are "sure". Too bad you have no way of being sure. Nor any reason to be. They can't see the whole picture if they don't have the information. Nobody has that information but Shepard and the Catalyst. 

That's precisely the point! THE GETH WHERE NEVER HOSTILE even then the Geth never had the mind for example of a terminator to take over the entire galaxy the thinking of the Catalyst to achieve peace by Genocide of Organics is stupid. It as if they are killing Organics to restart them into primitve age so that Peace can be achieved? the GETH QUARIAN war started because no diplomatic intercourse or communication was even initiated by both sides... for god sakes even the United States communicates with North Korea. The catalyst way of thinking is Si vis pacem, para bellum

[The Arbiter]

So you admit that organics act irrationally yet insist that they wouldn't do so here......You're not making much sense.

Both organics and Synthetics can act irrationally more so if synthetics begins to learn about free will. Even EDI did even my Hard Drive does it that's why we have Laws my friend to prevent irrational actions

[Nohvarr]

Both organics and Synthetics can act irrationally. Even EDI did even my Hard Drive does it

.....So you see the problem? You can write whatever laws you want after the fact, someone will break them and this nightmare will start all over again. I mean we have any number of laws ranging from jaywalking to mass murder and people break those almost regularly...why WOULDN'T I expect someone to do the same here?

[katamuro]

The thing is, the Starbrat says that its true, however for all we know its just trying to force your hand. Same for synthesis. Which is why it is presented as the "best" choice, starbrat wants us to do it, wants us to indoctrinate the galaxy and turn it more or less static the way it wants. Also both synthesis and control do not rule out eventual creation of pure synthetic life which might be stronger than reapers. 

THERE is absolutely no guarantee in ANY ending that no more war or no more synthetics would be made. Unless of course in synthesis the Starbrat controls all life in the galaxy not allowing it to create anything. 

[Mcfly616]

That's precisely the point! THE GETH WHERE NEVER HOSTILE even then the Geth never had the mind for example of a terminator to take over the entire galaxy 

 They had the mind to take over Rannoch/Perseus Vail and drive out an advanced civilization such as the Quarians. And this was only during their first moments of sentience. 

[Nohvarr]

The thing is, the Starbrat says that its true, however for all we know its just trying to force your hand. Same for synthesis. Which is why it is presented as the "best" choice, starbrat wants us to do it, wants us to indoctrinate the galaxy and turn it more or less static the way it wants. Also both synthesis and control do not rule out eventual creation of pure synthetic life which might be stronger than reapers. 

THERE is absolutely no guarantee in ANY ending that no more war or no more synthetics would be made. Unless of course in synthesis the Starbrat controls all life in the galaxy not allowing it to create anything. 

So just as in life, people could be lying to you, they could be wrong, or they could be telling the truth and no matter what choice you make things might not turn out how you expected. Noted.

[Mcfly616]

The thing is, the Starbrat says that its true, however for all we know its just trying to force your hand. Same for synthesis. Which is why it is presented as the "best" choice, starbrat wants us to do it, wants us to indoctrinate the galaxy and turn it more or less static the way it wants. Also both synthesis and control do not rule out eventual creation of pure synthetic life which might be stronger than reapers. 

THERE is absolutely no guarantee in ANY ending that no more war or no more synthetics would be made. Unless of course in synthesis the Starbrat controls all life in the galaxy not allowing it to create anything. 

For all "you" know, maybe. Or that's just what you want to believe. That the Catalyst is lying to you when it has no reason to.

 

 

I don't recall anybody saying any ending negates the possibility of future conflicts. Just that synthesis removes the inherent organic/synthetic problem from the equation.

[The Arbiter]

.....So you see the problem? You can write whatever laws you want after the fact, someone will break them and this nightmare will start all over again. I mean we have any number of laws ranging from jaywalking to mass murder and people break those almost regularly...why WOULDN'T I expect someone to do the same here?

Yes someone will break them but we will have a better chance on preventing them. To initiate another disaster in a huge galactic scale would take a mad scientist or a super crazy individual creating synthetics for the purpose of destruction of all sentient life or creating them in massive numbers capable of self replication in a rogue state. But this time since we have laws and because of the past experiences of ME3 we could counter the threat with our own synthetic army which only laws and diplomatic intercourse are capable of achieving not through the barrel of the gun. The Laws regulating synthetic creation will not only "prevent another galactic disaster" but would deal on "how to communicate or handle synthetics themselves" yes there is no assurance that all synthetics we create will think the same but atleast before the level of "complexity of a synthetic is achieved via true AI status" they will be harmless since it is regulated. There can be experiments in limited numbers as a measure to counter another synthetic threat we counter it with another synthetic force but this time it is on our side.