825 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

 All we have is just words of a machine that itself is an AI about something that might as well be their own fault. 

So no, nothing has been observed. The only real synthetic-organic contact we have experienced was during ME1-3(not including the last 10 min) with geth and EDI. So I base my opinions and my theory on what we have actually seen not what was alluded to by a genocidal AI. 

 Actually the inherent problem with organic/synthetic relations was observed by the Leviathan numerous times long before the Reapers. So, the occurrence is no fault of their own.

 

Let me guess.....the Leviathan had reason to lie to you as well....

[niniendowarrior]

If BioWare really wanted to force that all endings be respected in a save import, they could try to write a story that starts out branched like Dragon Age: Origins that eventually converges into a main plot with slightly different villains depending on the ending picked.  Helluvatime writing what that would be though.

[The Arbiter]

No because Russia has nukes. Even when its army was in horrible state in the 90's, and could have been taken by the US because it had nukes it was too much trouble. Also pretty much everyone believed that Russia would never again become strong. Also if you think anyone but china would object to US taking over Russia I think you are wrong. China is the next country to become a superpower. Its already building carriers, its navy is growing faster than anyone elses and now thanks to the sanctions imposed by US on Russia,it is buying russian technology in droves. No country in the world can match China's industrial capacity or work force or the amount of soldiers it can field. 

Anyway the only way forward in the world without creating another cold war is to agree that the world cannot be centered on US alone, there needs to be a more distributed, more robust financial system that doesnt crash just because something in US does. Same goes for security, we cannot rely on any single country to fight wars against terrorism and the like. Plus imagine what would USA, Russia and Europe would achieve together. Space exploration, new trans-siberian high speed railway. While the countries in Europe get more and more crowded Russia is quite empty and would benefit from another 50 million or so europeans living there. 

We need to work together, forget about the old grudges and think about what comes next. But it wont happen as long as US government wants to impose their type of democracy on Russia. Russia never really worked well as a typical democracy, they need strong leaders, Russia always did best with a strong leader. Also the collapse of soviet union left a lot of people quite dissilusioned and many dont think twice about bribing or taking bribes. So they need someone to believe in now before the country is restored enough so that they can believe in the country. 

That's the point man! Nukes, the consequence. US is not stupid enough to waltz right in and enforce freedom upon Russian individuals.Notice USA has changed tone with Iran? why? because Nukes. That's why peace exists right now between America and Russia is because of Nukes. About China, well I can't say anything if they are a true super power. Majority of their Jet engines are Russian made and even then, Russia refuses to give any actual blue prints on how to manufacture them, Industries and economy? 80% of their businesses are owned by the west lmao. Their carrier is nothing compared to the fleet of Japan, USA and including Russia. The only reason why America can not engage in an actual war against the Chinese is because again of Nukes but that does not mean USA can not engage in an economic war.

 

The point is, if operation M.A.D. has not been enforced by different nations there would have been "hegemony" one single world order. If and only if for example USA and Russia for no apparent reason decides to challenge each other then...

 

[Iakus]

 in your opinion. In there's it is serving its purpose. Searching for a solution.

Apex race to hanging out with Spongebob at the bottom of some literal backwater.

 

Some solution 

[KaiserShep]

Apex race to hanging out with Spongebob at the bottom of some literal backwater.

 

Some solution 

 

The Leviathan would be the equivalent of Squidward, always hating fun and thinking highly of himself.

 

Spongebob: Hey neighbor! I rented a movie if you wanna watch!

 

Leviathan: Motion picture is beneath our kind. My consciousness transcends the triviality with which you preoccupy your limited mind.

[The Arbiter]

The Leviathan would be the equivalent of Squidward, always hating fun and thinking highly of himself.

 

Spongebob: Hey neighbor! I rented a movie if you wanna watch!

 

Leviathan: Motion picture is beneath our kind. My consciousness transcends the triviality with which you preoccupy your limited mind.

[KaiserShep]

I...

 

[katamuro]

 Actually the inherent problem with organic/synthetic relations was observed by the Leviathan numerous times long before the Reapers. So, the occurrence is no fault of their own.

 

Let me guess.....the Leviathan had reason to lie to you as well....

 

Well no but considering what we know about leviathans(mind-controlling self-important idiots that created reapers) its extremely likely that all those synthetic AI that were created by "lesser" species were actually there to get the Leviathan yoke off them. So they were built with intent to kill, so going wrong and killing their own creators is practically a given. Also the Leviathans might have subverted the synthetics to turn against their own creators. 

They do not count the dead of any species, if they ever actually wanted to do then they could have easily shared their knowledge of the Reapers and technology with other species before Reapers arrived. I am quite sure they could have used indoctrinated people to leak that. Instead they hide. What does that tell you?

[Tonymac]

Lets not forget that Reaper Indoctrination is based off of the Leviathan's own form of mind control.  This make it apparent that trusting either one of these critters (Reapers or the Leviathan) is incredibly naive.  

[katamuro]

Lets not forget that Reaper Indoctrination is based off of the Leviathan's own form of mind control.  This make it apparent that trusting either one of these critters (Reapers or the Leviathan) is incredibly naive.  

 

Plus geth in ME1 were only attacking the human colonies because Sovereign said so(with Sarens help), and it is quite likely that they have done the same trick before turning the Starbrat's words that the synthetics will always attack organics kinda like a self-fulfilling prophecy since they are manipulating them to attack. its like saying "the glass will break" and then dropping it so that it will. 

I know I am attributing more to the Reapers, the damn AI and the bioware more than they probably thought but this way it makes sense. 

The reaper control AI cannot kill Shepard in that chamber, the Crucible is preventing it from acting on that so instead it opts to mislead Shepard, make it seem like the option he came here for is not worth it and that the other two options presented are a better path. After all it knows shepard would sacrifice himself if needed. 

The other options are traps, Control uploads the mind of Shepard into the runtimes of Reapers, possibly influencing them enough so that they stop killing, but at the same time the AI is preserved and it could try with the help of now trusted Reapers to mold the galaxy in the way it wants like the Leviathan of old, as with synthesis its pretty clear to me that its what it wanted from the start, a stop to random biological evolution, everything now in a form that it and the Reapers can control. Everyone gets indoctrinated without knowing it, without feeling it, so no one would question. Finally the galaxy is in the image of the Reapers.

Which is why the whole thing about geth destruction and EDI could be and probably is just a lie. Energy waves destroy hardware not software and since both EDI and geth do not have reaper hardware then they would survive, all it would do to them is probably shut them down temporarily, like a power surge would. 

[goishen]

The Leviathan would be the equivalent of Squidward, always hating fun and thinking highly of himself.

 

Spongebob: Hey neighbor! I rented a movie if you wanna watch!

 

Leviathan: Motion picture is beneath our kind. My consciousness transcends the triviality with which you preoccupy your limited mind.

 

 

Is it odd that I can hear Leviathan saying this?

[WillieStyle]

Control could gave been interesting if we didn't spent the whole game telling TIM to go to hell with his ideas and if he wasn't indoctrinated.

This. So much this. We spend 2.9 games learning that the promise of control is a lie that the Reapers use to undermine organic resistance: see Vendetta, and the Illusive man. Then in the very last scene, we're supposed to accept control as a perfectly fine option?

Similarly, we spend over 2 games discovering the many twisted ways the Reapers can merge organic and synthetic matter to create monstrosities: everything from Husks, to the Collectors, to Banshees. But in the final scene, we're supposed to accept synthesis as a perfectly reasonable option?

The rule of speculative fiction is: no matter how outlandish your setting, your characters should act the way real people would act if they were placed in similar circumstances. Well, no real person who had experienced what Shephard had would ever pick synthesis. And in order to pick control, they'd have to be the greatest egomaniac in the history of sentient beings.

[KaiserShep]

The rule of speculative fiction is: no matter how outlandish your setting, your characters should act the way real people would act if they were placed in similar circumstances. Well, no real person who had experienced what Shephard had would ever pick synthesis. And in order to pick control, they'd have to be the greatest egomaniac in the history of sentient beings.

 

Pretty much this. It's even better when compounded on top of the fact that the only way to implement these whacky choices is to straight up get vaporized.

[Jaquio]

It's going to be a prequel.  At best, concurrent to ME1 or ME2.

 

But they'll find some technicality that allows them to call it a sequel.  Maybe it'll be narrated from the future, but the events happen in the past.

 

And before anyone says "so and so said it won't be a prequel" I can point you to a list of dozens of abject lies we were told about ME3.

[KaiserShep]

It's going to be a prequel.  At best, concurrent to ME1 or ME2.

 

But they'll find some technicality that allows them to call it a sequel.  Maybe it'll be narrated from the future, but the events happen in the past.

 

And before anyone says "so and so said it won't be a prequel" I can point you to a list of dozens of abject lies we were told about ME3.

I can already see the forum spitting fire over BioWare's reuse of a framed narrative, which was arguably one of the big things people hated about Dragon Age 2.

[Heimdall]

I can already see the forum spitting fire over BioWare's reuse of a framed narrative, which was arguably one of the big things people hated about Dragon Age 2.

It didn't bother me, though I'd still be rather annoyed by prequel or "side-quel". I can't help but feel that anything they do would be overshadowed by the existential threat we know is out there in the trilogy, and all impact the protagonist might have would have to be very low key to explain why they're never mentioned. Not that a good story couldn't be told under those conditions, but it feels like an aweful lot of restrictions.

The only thing DA2 really got wrong with the frame narrative was how it ended in my book. It was sequel bait (Or expansion bait) and didn't link up with Hawke's story.

[Guanxii]

It's never directly stated but the inherent metaphysical not necessary literal conflict between organics and synthetics assumes some familiarity with basic astrobiological concepts on the part of the player. My understanding is that the pace of synthetic technological advancement is exponential and flawed human extrapolation assumes their resource requirements will expand proportionately until they require the energy of star systems (ours) and eventually the entire galaxy. Organics cannot keep pace and will quickly become 'ants on the galactic stage' from the perspective of hyper advanced machine intelegences. Our struggle for survival is a byproduct of their advancement. They don't intentional want to eradicate organic life - we dont even so much as warrant discussion.

What synthesis does is give former organics the ability to upgrade ourselves like any machine could. We thefore keep pace technologically and intellectually with synthetics. They in turn gain the ability to feel emotion, empathy, compassion, individuality, etc which should in theory integrate them into galactic society so that we advance together in lock step despite retaining our unique perspectives, cultures and histories.

Destroy and control merely postpone the inevitable. My rational for choosing destroy is that the reapers were supposedly the apex race and we defeated them as type 1 civilisations but as we advance so does our synthetics/tech but I'm hopeful that we could defeat the new breed of synthetics even if we have to rebuild the crucible again every 200 years.

[katamuro]

It's never directly stated but the inherent metaphysical not necessary literal conflict between organics and synthetics assumes some familiarity with basic astrobiological concepts on the part of the player. My understanding is that the pace of synthetic technological advancement is exponential and flawed human extrapolation assumes their resource requirements will expand proportionately until they require the energy of star systems (ours) and eventually the entire galaxy. Organics cannot keep pace and will quickly become 'ants on the galactic stage' from the perspective of hyper advanced machine intelegences. Our struggle for survival is a byproduct of their advancement. They don't intentional want to eradicate organic life - we dont even so much as warrant discussion.

What synthesis does is give former organics the ability to upgrade ourselves like any machine could. We thefore keep pace technologically and intellectually with synthetics. They in turn gain the ability to feel emotion, empathy, compassion, individuality, etc which should in theory integrate them into galactic society so that we advance together in lock step despite retaining our unique perspectives, cultures and histories.

Destroy and control merely postpone the inevitable. My rational for choosing destroy is that the reapers were supposedly the apex race and we defeated them as type 1 civilisations but as we advance so does our synthetics/tech but I'm hopeful that we could defeat the new breed of synthetics even if we have to rebuild the crucible again every 200 years.

 

We could advance with cybernetics and genetic engineering anyway, synthesis is not really that much better if taken at face value. 

Anyway the problems of continuity are not just multiplied but cubed with synthesis or control. destroy is so much simpler and so much easier to start off with. 

[Tython]

Anyone else like how there's an article out that highlights the motion capture of Mass Effect Next but once again doesn't tell us anything about the plot? The longer they hold off saying anything about the storyline, the more worried I get.

 

Concerning the discussion about the starchild/ casper, I will say with complete confidence that I do not believe a word that he says. He made an AI that has exterminated hundreds of species over millennia. Whole races wiped out of complete existence. That's not only very sad but barbaric. I don't care about his reasoning. He has eliminated choice and free will from those species. If they create their own AI's that they war with; so be it. It's their choice. But it is ironic that casper eliminates their choice along with player choice so their is some symmetry...

 

Now maybe if there was some buildup during the games that led to this reasoning like no matter what you do, the Geth and Quarians do not reconcile, Edi and Jeff's relationship breaks down, etc I could maybe see it. But everything up until the ending flies in the face of what casper is selling. It's poor storytelling at the highest level.

 

My hope is ME Next wipes the slate clean. I'd be happy with a complete reboot at this stage. There's nothing Bioware can do besides publish a remastered version of ME3 with a good ending that will fix the mess they've made.

[Guanxii]

We could advance with cybernetics and genetic engineering anyway, synthesis is not really that much better if taken at face value.
Anyway the problems of continuity are not just multiplied but cubed with synthesis or control. destroy is so much simpler and so much easier to start off with.

Genetic engineering is limited to organic potential... cybernetic enhancement as well and could lead to disaster. Synthesis: space magic as it is avoids the replacing soul with tech problem associated with organic augmentation imo. That's why synthesis is necessary to transpose organic thought and essence into a new synthetic form rather than organic beings chipping away at their organic form by attempting DIY synthesis.

Reapers view is that organics will destroy themselves with their own tech either in conflict or they will attempt to augment themselves into oblivion in a futile attempt to keep up with machines who evolve without fundamental limitations.

[The Arbiter]

Anyone else like how there's an article out that highlights the motion capture of Mass Effect Next but once again doesn't tell us anything about the plot? The longer they hold off saying anything about the storyline, the more worried I get.

 

Concerning the discussion about the starchild/ casper, I will say with complete confidence that I do not believe a word that he says. He made an AI that has exterminated hundreds of species over millennia. Whole races wiped out of complete existence. That's not only very sad but barbaric. I don't care about his reasoning. He has eliminated choice and free will from those species. If they create their own AI's that they war with; so be it. It's their choice. But it is ironic that casper eliminates their choice along with player choice so their is some symmetry...

 

Now maybe if there was some buildup during the games that led to this reasoning like no matter what you do, the Geth and Quarians do not reconcile, Edi and Jeff's relationship breaks down, etc I could maybe see it. But everything up until the ending flies in the face of what casper is selling. It's poor storytelling at the highest level.

 

My hope is ME Next wipes the slate clean. I'd be happy with a complete reboot at this stage. There's nothing Bioware can do besides publish a remastered version of ME3 with a good ending that will fix the mess they've made.

It's advertisement brah. They want MORE "HYPE" and attention... I'll hold it off... the only thing I am Hype this year is for Batman Arkham Knight and Final Fantasy XV despite the long development time

[Iakus]

Reapers view is that organics will destroy themselves with their own tech either in conflict or they will attempt to augment themselves into oblivion in a futile attempt to keep up with machines who evolve without fundamental limitations.

Everything has limits.  Everything should have limits.

 

All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations.  Can't carry a load, so invent wheel.  Can't catch food, so invent spear.  Limitations. No limitations, no advancement.  No advancement, culture stagnates.

Mordin Solus

 

We destroyed Tuchanka ourselves.  Technology changed us.  It made life too easy.  So we looked for new challenges-and found them in each other.  Nuclear war was inevitable.  

Urdnot Bakara

[Drone223]

Anyone else like how there's an article out that highlights the motion capture of Mass Effect Next but once again doesn't tell us anything about the plot? The longer they hold off saying anything about the storyline, the more worried I get.
 

Seeing as how the game isn't officially announced I think you have no reason to be worried, they're clearly waiting for E3 to reveal all the details a lot of dev's like to do this.

[Guanxii]

Everything has limits. Everything should have limits.

All scientific advancement due to intellegence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates.
Mordin Solus

We destroyed Tuchanka ourselves. Technology changed us. It made life too easy. So we looked for new challenges-and found them in each other. Nuclear war was inevitable.
Urdnot Bakara

All true of organics, not synthetics which is why Javik argues that EDI exists outside of nature and that her upgrades are not evolution because they are not grounded in the limitations of / or shaped by the forces of nature. Sure natural laws exist which place computational limitations on hardware configurations but the hardware is essentially limited only by the creators engineering capability and resources which are not natural limitations - for all intents and purposes self aware machines are unbounded by the natural laws which cripple organics which is why we create them and what makes them so dangerous.

When we rely on technology to solve our problems for us we stagnate.