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So if the ending choices can somehow be reflected in NME...


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#176
Iakus

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HL:Blue Shift and Opposing Force were actually quite nice.

 

The dragon age franchise does quite well without the same hero or squadmates, the ME comics also don't feature Shepard at all.

 

This!

 

Personally, I'd hate a reboot/AU.

I still hope Bioware does what Bioware does best: Incorporating choices and invalidating them at the same time. (Aka: A single line of different dialogue)

The only part I disagree with is I would love an AU.  Not because I want Shepard back.  I'm fine with starting with a new character.  But because I hated how Shepard's story ended, and what it did to the galaxy.  I do not want that legacy hanging over whatever comes next.


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#177
katamuro

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The only part I disagree with is I would love an AU.  Not because I want Shepard back.  I'm fine with starting with a new character.  But because I hated how Shepard's story ended, and what it did to the galaxy.  I do not want that legacy handing over whatever comes next.

 

Yeah I know what you mean. While I would not "love" the AU, I just want justice done to shepard's story. 


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#178
Mcfly616

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And it would suck 

 that's subjective.



#179
Iakus

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Yeah I know what you mean. While I would not "love" the AU, I just want justice done to shepard's story. 

Sadly, at this point it's not going to happen.  Biwoare had thier chance to make it right and we got EC instead.

 

The best we can hope for now is following Okeer's advice

 

"I will inflict on the genophage endings the greatest insult an enemy can suffer: to be ignored"


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#180
The Arbiter

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HL:Blue Shift and Opposing Force were actually quite nice.

 

The dragon age franchise does quite well without the same hero or squadmates, the ME comics also don't feature Shepard at all.

 

This!

 

Personally, I'd hate a reboot/AU.

I still hope Bioware does what Bioware does best: Incorporating choices and invalidating them at the same time. (Aka: A single line of different dialogue)

Opposing force... wasn't that soldier named Shepard if I am not mistaken trying to track or hunt down freeman? I wondered what happened to him. Still connected to half life. Blue shift was a police guy right? Still black mesa



#181
The Arbiter

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yeah I know what you mean. While I would not "love" the AU, I just want justice done to shepard's story. 

Same here. I would want a closure too... a 5 sec photo of shep and old squads in ME4 showing they are alive is more than enough or codex, comic or whatever the hell it is. But majority of the hardcore bioware fans or bioware itself has a phobia of the number 3 now or anything related to 3... worst than gabe newell



#182
KrrKs

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The best we can hope for now is following Okeer's advice

 

"I will inflict on the genophage endings the greatest insult an enemy can suffer: to be ignored"

I think they'll use the other quote: Something about climbing atop of a thousand dead fans

 

Opposing force... wasn't that soldier named Shepard if I am not mistaken trying to track or hunt down freeman? I wondered what happened to him. Still connected to half life. Blue shift was a police guy right? Still black mesa

Yep, that were the ones

 

Edit: typo



#183
katamuro

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Same here. I would want a closure too... a 5 sec photo of shep and old squads in ME4 showing they are alive is more than enough or codex, comic or whatever the hell it is. But majority of the hardcore bioware fans or bioware itself has a phobia of the number 3 now or anything related to 3... worst than gabe newell

 

Yeah. I would settle for a codex entry, a memorial on Citadel for example to the Reaper war which gives us the codex entry that read something like 

 

"The Reaper war was fought x years ago with Commander Shepard leading the final charge against the Reaper stronghold on Earth. Instrumental to the victory but rumoured to have died as the Prothean anti-reaper weapon fired however due to post war confusion it was never verified. There had been rumours for decades after the war that Commander Shepard had retired to a number of planets, asari colony X, Rannoch, human colony Y, turian colony Z among the top contenders. It was through the actions of Commander Shepard and the crew of Alliance frigate Normandy SR-2 that sentient life in the galaxy does not have to live in fear of the Reapers."

 

Vague, not even clear if male or female, not clear of romance options or anything really. Just a statement of what was generally done. Doesnt even say what option was chosen. 



#184
The Arbiter

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Yeah. I would settle for a codex entry, a memorial on Citadel for example to the Reaper war which gives us the codex entry that read something like 

 

"The Reaper war was fought x years ago with Commander Shepard leading the final charge against the Reaper stronghold on Earth. Instrumental to the victory but rumoured to have died as the Prothean anti-reaper weapon fired however due to post war confusion it was never verified. There had been rumours for decades after the war that Commander Shepard had retired to a number of planets, asari colony X, Rannoch, human colony Y, turian colony Z among the top contenders. It was through the actions of Commander Shepard and the crew of Alliance frigate Normandy SR-2 that sentient life in the galaxy does not have to live in fear of the Reapers."

 

Vague, not even clear if male or female, not clear of romance options or anything really. Just a statement of what was generally done. Doesnt even say what option was chosen. 

But let's be realistic my friend... Bioware does not want it, the white knights of Bioware also does not want it. We can't do anything. The end of Mass Effect 3 does not matter anymore... your saves... your squadmates is no more... no imports nothing. Restart/Reboot.  I should have listened to my best friend who warned me years ago how painful the Triology is... Now I have been through a real war (don't ask how and when) and I assure you Bioware did a good job making me attached to my squadmates and love interest Tali. The end just did not matter at all... PTSD. 

 

Anyway again... This video is for Bioware and the Mass Effect triology. I believe 3 is my last bioware game ever... such a shame. Good community supportive devs. I just can't put myself like this anymore



#185
Nohvarr

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I believe 3 is my last bioware game ever... such a shame. Good community supportive devs. I just can't put myself like this anymore

 

Babylon-5-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%BE


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#186
FlyingSquirrel

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Well, there are ways they could finesse this to do a DA:Keep-style import and not have to change the basic outlines of the story too much, though I'd much prefer a prequel to a story that has to contort itself this much:

 

  • Ending choice: Refuse would be unselectable. If you chose Synthesis, the haptic interfaces have disappeared so that nobody looks different. If you chose Control or Synthesis, the Reapers are mostly keeping to themselves and don't play a major role in the story. 
  • Genophage: It's cured, with the only difference being when, why, and how as discussed in a few dialogue choices. If Shepard sabotaged it, then it was cured via Synthesis, if this is a Synthesis import, or some unnamed scientist recreated Mordin's/Wiks's work later on and gave it to the krogan.
  • Quarians/Geth: If Shepard failed to broker peace, then a few members of the losing species escaped the battles at Rannoch and gradually repopulated, and the geth, if they're around, don't play a major role in the story.
  • Citadel/Council: It's far enough in the future that anyone of political significance from the Shepard trilogy is either dead or retired


#187
goishen

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What you're expressing is grief.  Grief that the stories of his (Shepard's) squad mates couldn't go on.  That's not the sign of a bad story.  In fact, it's the sign of an excellent one.



#188
katamuro

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I still think they should have stuck with something less complicated. I have noticed that in many scifi recently, especially after the 90's the writers started to go over the top with complicated plots, ideas that are highly complex, setups that involve all kinds of little moving parts that are supposed to coalesce at the end. But they rarely make it. Not a lot of people can bring out the complex and make it appear natural. Most scifi like that feels forced, feels like there is just a few things too many. 

I think they tried something like that in ME3 and earlier in ME2 with the whole dark energy plot, I think they tried jumping higher than they actually could, something that seemed so different, so smart for them at a time but they could not bring the whole thing to a good end. I believe the whole thing about reapers reaping the sentient organic species so that they are never exterminated by synthetic ones had potential, but more exposition wouldn't hurt, and instead of making the starbrat, they could have let the Reapers be their own controllers, Reapers doing that because they actually believe that that is the only way. All the species that were joined through the cycles also believing that the only way to live on through everything the galaxy can throw at you is to become a Reaper, a sentient semi-organic construct filled with the minds of millions and millions of each species. Instead of some sad little puppets they could have been the real boogeyman, the worst kind, the one that has the faith in itself that whatever it does, whatever the cost it is worth it in the long run. The ultimate Renegade if you will. 

 

And the whole leviathan subplot could have gone better as well, for example the first reapers were indeed created by leviathans but instead of an AI to combat the synthetics it was created willingly out of their own people(giant space squid people but still) to combat another species that threatened them, possibly a synthetic remnant of the species that created it. So when they defeated the enemy they were created they unable to die lived on for millions of years watching other species get exterminated either by their own hand through synthetics, through natural phenomena, through wars with other species(like rachni) and decided that life is precious but preservation of a species is more important in the long run. So they went around harvesting, eventually perfecting the method to what we know. 

 

Its still far from perfect but this way at least this way this doesnt seem like some kind of programming error in the AI( I am not sure that starbrat is even an actual AI, it might be just a very advanced VI) it would be a sentient, informed choice where the Reapers, more powerful than any single thing in the galaxy simply decided that they know better than anyone else. That they are doing it for the greater good. Also the last battle could have involved fighting a human reaper, surely they could have enough people harvested in the time it took Shepard to assemble enough support to strike back. With Illusive Man agreeing to become the controlling mind of the Reaper, for advancement and preservation of humanity. And that is how the reapers do it, harvest millions sure, but one mind, one mind willing to go to any lengths being like the morality imprint on the rest.

And the multiple choices would be to..

A)Destroy reapers, but loose all the tens of thousands of species that make them up, basically making the assertion that life in its current form, chaotic and unpredictable is better than the practical immortality of the unchanging Reapers. Shepard lives if EMS is high enough

B)control the reapers, slaving them to a control of Shepard's uploaded mind if EMS is low or to the control of the crucible AI, if its high, forcing them to adhere to a set of rules, stopping the cycle but preserving the Reaperized species. Making them into the galaxy's biggest work gang. (leaves the possibility of Reapers leaving permanently to dark space or something like that)

C)Synthesis(not really), unchaining the millions of minds inside each reaper from the control of the main one, giving them all the option to see the horror they have done, Shepard sacrifices himself as a virus is uploaded requiring the organic mind(Shepard's) and the synthetic mind of Vendetta basically making Reapers into kind of like geth with millions of individual minds gaining consensus on their actions. Reapers fight with each other, some simply leave, others leave caches of technology before committing suicide or leaving. The reapers could still be around but they are not such a threat anymore, their remnants defeated by the combined fleets and forces. 

 

This way they could still have reapers, still have multiple ending choices and yet without the whole plot block that they found themselves in.



#189
Guanxii

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I still think they should have stuck with something less complicated. I have noticed that in many scifi recently, especially after the 90's the writers started to go over the top with complicated plots, ideas that are highly complex, setups that involve all kinds of little moving parts that are supposed to coalesce at the end. But they rarely make it. Not a lot of people can bring out the complex and make it appear natural. Most scifi like that feels forced, feels like there is just a few things too many.
I think they tried something like that in ME3 and earlier in ME2 with the whole dark energy plot, I think they tried jumping higher than they actually could, something that seemed so different, so smart for them at a time but they could not bring the whole thing to a good end. I believe the whole thing about reapers reaping the sentient organic species so that they are never exterminated by synthetic ones had potential, but more exposition wouldn't hurt, and instead of making the starbrat, they could have let the Reapers be their own controllers, Reapers doing that because they actually believe that that is the only way. All the species that were joined through the cycles also believing that the only way to live on through everything the galaxy can throw at you is to become a Reaper, a sentient semi-organic construct filled with the minds of millions and millions of each species. Instead of some sad little puppets they could have been the real boogeyman, the worst kind, the one that has the faith in itself that whatever it does, whatever the cost it is worth it in the long run. The ultimate Renegade if you will.

And the whole leviathan subplot could have gone better as well, for example the first reapers were indeed created by leviathans but instead of an AI to combat the synthetics it was created willingly out of their own people(giant space squid people but still) to combat another species that threatened them, possibly a synthetic remnant of the species that created it. So when they defeated the enemy they were created they unable to die lived on for millions of years watching other species get exterminated either by their own hand through synthetics, through natural phenomena, through wars with other species(like rachni) and decided that life is precious but preservation of a species is more important in the long run. So they went around harvesting, eventually perfecting the method to what we know.

Its still far from perfect but this way at least this way this doesnt seem like some kind of programming error in the AI( I am not sure that starbrat is even an actual AI, it might be just a very advanced VI) it would be a sentient, informed choice where the Reapers, more powerful than any single thing in the galaxy simply decided that they know better than anyone else. That they are doing it for the greater good. Also the last battle could have involved fighting a human reaper, surely they could have enough people harvested in the time it took Shepard to assemble enough support to strike back. With Illusive Man agreeing to become the controlling mind of the Reaper, for advancement and preservation of humanity. And that is how the reapers do it, harvest millions sure, but one mind, one mind willing to go to any lengths being like the morality imprint on the rest.
And the multiple choices would be to..
A)Destroy reapers, but loose all the tens of thousands of species that make them up, basically making the assertion that life in its current form, chaotic and unpredictable is better than the practical immortality of the unchanging Reapers. Shepard lives if EMS is high enough
B)control the reapers, slaving them to a control of Shepard's uploaded mind if EMS is low or to the control of the crucible AI, if its high, forcing them to adhere to a set of rules, stopping the cycle but preserving the Reaperized species. Making them into the galaxy's biggest work gang. (leaves the possibility of Reapers leaving permanently to dark space or something like that)
C)Synthesis(not really), unchaining the millions of minds inside each reaper from the control of the main one, giving them all the option to see the horror they have done, Shepard sacrifices himself as a virus is uploaded requiring the organic mind(Shepard's) and the synthetic mind of Vendetta basically making Reapers into kind of like geth with millions of individual minds gaining consensus on their actions. Reapers fight with each other, some simply leave, others leave caches of technology before committing suicide or leaving. The reapers could still be around but they are not such a threat anymore, their remnants defeated by the combined fleets and forces.

This way they could still have reapers, still have multiple ending choices and yet without the whole plot block that they found themselves in.

I think I speak for everyone when I say all I ever wanted was to to destroy the reapers. I had no interest in their motivations or deciding the future of organic life. Mass Effect was never about answering deep metaphysical philosophical questions and shoehorning them into a simple story about characters they lost sight of everything that was important. Even the Dark energy plot would derail the original story. ME3 ruined the original story for me and I would be quite happy with a completely new canon where this godawful mess never happened. I certainly don't want it to hang over the series any longer and do any more damage to the next story.

If they do make a perfunctory nod to the me3 ending make it ambiguously vague and open to interpretation. Non of those choices were correct for the future of the series and if given an alternative route that is a better fit that my Shepard didn't choose I would gladly take it. I hope a future adaptation does it right one day. If I never see another reaper or have to be reminded about priority earth debacle again it will be too soon.

Self-evidently pervasive / endemic use of cybernetic enhancement/augmentation as if it were no big deal and long lifting the ban on AI would indicate to me that the previous conflict has been resolved somehow - I don't care how just move the f--k on from it and focus on more interesting science fiction tropes in the future.


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#190
Iakus

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What you're expressing is grief.  Grief that the stories of his (Shepard's) squad mates couldn't go on.  That's not the sign of a bad story.  In fact, it's the sign of an excellent one.

I't not grief that the story can't or won't go on.  It's grief that the story ended so badly, and we're stuck with it.  

 

It's  a sign that the destination is in fact as important as the journey.


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#191
katamuro

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I think I speak for everyone when I say all I ever wanted was to to destroy the reapers. I had no interest in their motivations or deciding the future of organic life. Mass Effect was never about answering deep metaphysical philosophical questions and shoehorning them into a simple story about characters they lost sight of everything that was important. Even the Dark energy plot would derail the original story. ME3 ruined the original story for me and I would be quite happy with a completely new canon where this godawful mess never happened. I certainly don't want it to hang over the series any longer and do any more damage to the next story.

If they do make a perfunctory nod to the me3 ending make it ambiguously vague and open to interpretation. Non of those choices were correct for the future of the series and if given an alternative route that is a better fit that my Shepard didn't choose I would gladly take it. I hope a future adaptation does it right one day. If I never see another reaper or have to be reminded about priority earth debacle again it will be too soon.

Self-evidently pervasive / endemic use of cybernetic enhancement/augmentation as if it were no big deal and long lifting the ban on AI would indicate to me that the previous conflict has been resolved somehow - I don't care how just move the f--k on from it and focus on more interesting science fiction tropes in the future.

 

Yeah, I was just giving an example of how they could still have that deep theme, about life, death, survival at all costs and yet without the ridicilousness of what we were given. For me ME3 ends with the Anderson scene. Crucible fires, and with high EMS shuts down the reapers.



#192
Balsam Beige

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My last me3 moment, Ash giving Shepard a hug. Like Iakus, I chose MEHEM.

Excellent work from the modders.
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#193
Guanxii

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Yeah, I was just giving an example of how they could still have that deep theme, about life, death, survival at all costs and yet without the ridicilousness of what we were given. For me ME3 ends with the Anderson scene. Crucible fires, and with high EMS shuts down the reapers.

 

I know the feeling - I still cannot as hard as I try to accept anything past that point as genuine - because I care too much about the series to write it off as schlock.  London in general feels noticeably like they were running out of time and money and had no earthly idea where they were going as they were making it up as they went along. Casey tried his best with Mac's help but he is a horrible writer. Long story short... I'm still waiting for professional film/television writers to finish the job.



#194
goishen

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I't not grief that the story can't or won't go on.  It's grief that the story ended so badly, and we're stuck with it.  

 

It's  a sign that the destination is in fact as important as the journey.

 

 

It's the same difference though. 

 

If the story had ended perfectly, what would that have looked like?   Everybody got back home to their planets safely?  EDI and Jeff fall in love?  EDI gets blown up?  It's the same difference.  It doesn't matter where they end the story, you, as a reader, are never going to be happy with it.  And the reason for that is the actual story itself, and the story that was spun.



#195
katamuro

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It's the same difference though. 

 

If the story had ended perfectly, what would that have looked like?   Everybody got back home to their planets safely?  EDI and Jeff fall in love?  EDI gets blown up?  It's the same difference.  It doesn't matter where they end the story, you, as a reader, are never going to be happy with it.  And the reason for that is the actual story itself, and the story that was spun.

 

I disagree, I have read and watched tons of scifi and I have seen endings to whole series of books, or TV shows that were done better. Even when they had to cut short because network wasn't renewing. It doesn't have to be a perfect ending but there is also no need to go all "artistic" just because the more usual ways do not seem to be as memorable. And look, Bioware had made games before, they know how to end them, DAO was handled well. I think its because the lead writers/directors/whoever is in charge of the story wanted the ending to stand out, create something unique. And in the process they forgot that unique stuff can also be quite shite stuff. 


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#196
Balsam Beige

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I was generally happy with the (journey) story until priority earth.

All I can remember about the (destination) ending was that after I completed it, I wanted to throw my controller through my 52 inch LCD television.

*shrugs*
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#197
Iakus

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It's the same difference though. 

 

If the story had ended perfectly, what would that have looked like?   Everybody got back home to their planets safely?  EDI and Jeff fall in love?  EDI gets blown up?  It's the same difference.  It doesn't matter where they end the story, you, as a reader, are never going to be happy with it.  And the reason for that is the actual story itself, and the story that was spun.

It doesn't have to end perfectly.  it just has to end well.

 

RGB did not end well.  At all.  In fact, for me it made me not want to continue Shepard's story even if that was possible. 

 

That is the sign of a bad story.  I didn't buy a single piece of DLC until after MEHEM was out.


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#198
Guanxii

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When the ending is so bad half the audience are praying and hoping to god that it's all a bad dream [IT] and the other half are openly badmouthing your company and publisher widely enough to the extent that damage control involves giving away free DLC - that's a pretty bad sign for future sales. Satisfied customers are the one's who can usually be counted on for repeat sales, dissatisfied ones not so much.

 

If you want to avoid incurring negative sentiment from this bunch again building on the unpopular aspects of your last game which lead to a massive backlash might not be the best idea all told.  


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#199
SlottsMachine

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You can easily write around any of the endings to achieve the same outcome.

 

1. Destroy - Enough time has passed that the Reapers and Shepard are merely fairy tales. Galactic Civilization has been rebuilt, old rivalries have died out and new conflicts arose. 

 

2. Control - After the Reaper's assisted in rebuilding Galactic Civilization, they mysteriously vanished into deep space, nothing but vague hints of their legacy left after centuries of absence. With Galactic Civilization rebuilt, old rivalries have died out and new conflicts arose. 

 

3. Synthesis - Some say that the denizens of the galaxy were once mysteriously bound to rebuild the galaxy after a large scale catastrophe. Regardless of what once was, the bond grew weaker with each new generation, and each civilization wished to shape the galaxy to their image.  With Galactic Civilization rebuilt, old rivalries have died out and new conflicts arose. 

 

4. Synthesis 2 - Although the denizens of the galaxy seem to hav-- this is stupid, screw synthesis.

 

In the end, everyone goes back to hating each other for some reason.

 

Nice job of sweeping Synthesis under the rug which is the tricky part. Destroy and Control are much easier. Personally I don't want to see the endings effect the next game in the slightest. 



#200
theflyingzamboni

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Apocalyptic trilogies: I really love 'em for their epic scope, but they just don't lend themselves to sequels. If you're going to do one as a writer, make sure it's the last thing you do in that universe. Golden rule right there.


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