739 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

The hell happened here?

[Rekkampum]

The hell happened here?

 

What usually happens in any thread about Krem. There are some who've managed to reconcile things and have more fruitful discussions, but...

 

in b4 the lock.

[Lady Artifice]

What always happens. Every single time Krem comes up. Very near chaos. 

[Drasanil]

How does Christianity allow people to be who they are? It's religion. Religion always have concept of how one should live and sometimes it concept was even taken as far as laws. Of cource it's not something that allows people are what they are, it's stepping over human rights all the time and thus should be completely cut off from state and decision-making, making religion only personal thing that it should have always been.

 

You just proved my point there, since we are getting off topic I will refrain from posting further on the matter, but the notion of human rights came from the notion of God given rights and I'm pretty sure the people who thought of that weren't referring to Allah, Buddah, Odin or Jupiter when they came up with it

 

 

Modern societies have been stepping out of religion lately which is good. It has been happening since science become popular. Most people are spiritual anymore, believe in some higher power, but without following closely to some book or priest. Also Western heritage comes as much from Ancient Greece and Roman than it comes from Christianity.

 

I would say that is debatable, here in Canada society has been stepping away from Christianity yes, but has also been going out of its way to accommodate and validate Islam. This is to the point that our State broadcaster [by their own official admission] censors things which may be insulting the latter group whilst showing things that openly mock the former.

[Rekkampum]

You just proved my point there, since we are getting off topic I will refrain from posting further on the matter, but the notion of human rights came from the notion of God given rights and I'm pretty sure the people who thought of that weren't referring to Allah, Buddah, Odin or Jupiter when they came up with it

 

 

 

 

I would say that is debatable, here in Canada society has been stepping away from Christianity yes, but has also been going out of its way to accommodate and validate Islam. This is to the point that our State broadcaster [by their own official admission] censors things which may be insulting the latter group whilst showing things that openly mock the former.

 

Allah, is the same Abrahamic deity as YHWH in Judaism and Christianity. You might also want to study Buddhism a bit more.

 

But seriously, can you guys take this pm?

[Panda]

You just proved my point there, since we are getting off topic I will refrain from posting further on the matter, but the notion of human rights came from the notion of God given rights and I'm pretty sure the people who thought of that weren't referring to Allah, Buddah, Odin or Jupiter when they came up with it

 

I would say that is debatable, here in Canada society has been stepping away from Christianity yes, but has also been going out of its way to accommodate and validate Islam. This is to the point that our State broadcaster [by their own official admission] censors things which may be insulting the latter group whilst showing things that openly mock the former.

 

Alright, let's just say that I disagree this point and I see progression gone different way. Could be difference in country or point of view though.

[Drasanil]

Allah, is the same Abrahamic deity as YHWH in Judaism and Christianity. You might also want to study Buddhism a bit more.

 

Yes I know Buddha wasn't a god and there are no gods in Buddhism, was just throwing him in for effect. As for Allah, I will politely disagree with your assertion and leave it at that. 

[Fandango]

Oh my, Panda is on fire!

[Panda]

Oh my, Panda is on fire!

 

I hope not literally at least

[JosieRevisited]

The amazing thing about language is that it's constantly changing. We're adding words, removing them, reinventing them, appropriating them for other purposes, reclaiming ones that were once used as insults, the list goes on. When a word is added, it's because there was a clear need to describe something that never existed before. That's not what we are talking about here. 

 

We're talking about human beings who just lost the biological roulette and are further being demonized because they refuse to hide away in a corner where you cannot see them and can therefore pretend everyone fits into your neat little definition. 

 

I was incredibly lucky. The wiring in my brain, a complex piece of machinery by any measure, matches what I see in the mirror when I step out of the shower. I've never questioned it. I've questioned other things, like why doesn't it respond to members of the opposite sex in the expected way, but even that was a minor struggle (for me) and I came to terms with it quickly enough. I cannot even imagine how hard it must be to step out of the shower and see something completely foreign and unrecognizable. It's my guess that you can't, either. The difference between us, I think, is that I believe adding extra words where they are not necessary just sounds hurtful, and frankly, exhausting. 

 

When I look at Krem, I see a man. I use the words he, him, and his when I speak of him. I would do that for any trans man, and likewise the opposite for any trans woman. Does this make me a rebel against language? Perhaps. But I do not believe that language was developed over the years so that we could isolate one another and apply hurtful labels or to remind individuals of their circumstances. I believe it was developed so we could tell one another stories, give one another insight, and record our rich and colorful history. 

 

I guess, that makes me an optimist. I still think it's a better place to live than in darkness, spinning round and attacking anything that I don't personally identify with because of an imagined insult against... words. 

[Dinerenblanc]

The amazing thing about language is that it's constantly changing. We're adding words, removing them, reinventing them, appropriating them for other purposes, reclaiming ones that were once used as insults, the list goes on. When a word is added, it's because there was a clear need to describe something that never existed before. That's not what we are talking about here.

We're talking about human beings who just lost the biological roulette and are further being demonized because they refuse to hide away in a corner where you cannot see them and can therefore pretend everyone fits into your neat little definition.

I was incredibly lucky. The wiring in my brain, a complex piece of machinery by any definition, matches what I see in the mirror when I step out of the shower. I've never questioned it. I've questioned other things, like why doesn't it respond to members of the opposite sex in the expected way, but even that was a minor struggle (for me) and I came to terms with it quickly enough. I cannot even imagine how hard it must be to step out of the shower and see something completely foreign and unrecognizable. It's my guess that you can't, either. The difference between us, I think, is that I believe adding extra words where they are not necessary just sounds hurtful, and frankly, exhausting.

When I look at Krem, I see a man. I use the words he, him, and his when I speak of him. I would do that for any trans man, and likewise the opposite for any trans woman. Does this make me a rebel against language? Perhaps. But I do not believe that language was developed over the years so that we could isolate one another and apply hurtful labels or to remind individuals of their circumstances. I believe it was developed so we could tell one another stories, give one another insight, and record our rich and colorful history.

I guess, that makes me an optimist. I still think it's a better place to live than in darkness, spinning round and attacking anything that I don't personally identify with because of an imagined insult against... words.

Very thoughtful comment. I applaud you.

[Steelcan]

 

Middle Age's Christianity was what Europe is builded upon and it still hasn't recovered from that.

Which kind?

 

There was Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, the Monophysites in Egypt and Syria, Arians, Cathar, various other heresies, Iconoclasts, and even among "Catholics" there was significant variance in nation to nation, Insular and "Celtic" Christianity, the various syncretisms with local deities and so.

 

The idea that Medieval Religion was some universally monolithic organization flies in the face of all actual facts.  Every nation had a different experience with religious authority than the others and the subsequent Protestant Reformation reflects that, there is simply no way Luther or Calvin would have gained as much traction in places like Italy or Spain.  Your comments not just in this post but subsequent ones come off as frankly uninformed and little more than parroting a popular conception to the middle ages with little to no supporting evidence

[Dinerenblanc]

You people might want to take your discussion on religion to private messages. Don't derail the thread.

[Xilizhra]

Well, yes, because the terms of our language denote the physical with regard to gender. That tends to make gender identity (as opposed to gender) invisible to language and yes, that's a limitation, but the solution is not to co-opt existing terms that mean something else. If you do that, i.e. if you change existing terms to refer to gender identity rather than gender, then you make gender invisible to language. Make new terms and pronouns, use gender-neutral ones, I'm not against that.

 

I'm also opposing the social sciences' conceit that biology doesn't matter. I work in health services research, I'm confronted every day with just how much it matters. Yet again, I'm all for overcoming the limitations of our biology, but you can't do that by just ignoring it.

Why not use "sex" instead of "gender" when referring to physical traits? The rest of us have caught up to that.

 

As for biology, it's true that it does matter, but I don't really see how far you'd get trying to invent completely new pronouns to refer to gender as opposed to sex. It seems to be a fruitless endeavor. Just slap "biologically" in front of whatever sex terms you're using for clarification, and it'll be done.

 

 

You just proved my point there, since we are getting off topic I will refrain from posting further on the matter, but the notion of human rights came from the notion of God given rights and I'm pretty sure the people who thought of that weren't referring to Allah, Buddah, Odin or Jupiter when they came up with it

Allah is the same god as the Christian one. Allah is the name Arabic Christians and I think Jews give to their own god. It's literally just Arabic for "God."

[KainD]

but I don't really see how far you'd get trying to invent completely new pronouns to refer to gender as opposed to sex. 

 

Don't invent new pronouns, that won't solve anything, since gender is not a binary there could be thousands of genders / pronouns. I think instead we should destroy the word gender and pronouns associated with it, refer to everyone with the same word, and if someones sex interests you then you talk about that. 

[CrimsonN7]

I enjoyed Krem as a character.

 

Particularly the love of standing on chairs. That was cool.

 

Yup Krem's alright, had some interesting things to say about Tevinter and such. 15 pgs lol, should I go back and read this knowing how these threads go?

[Steelcan]

Don't invent new pronouns, that won't solve anything, since gender is not a binary there could be thousands of genders / pronouns. I think instead we should destroy the word gender and pronouns associated with it, refer to everyone with the same word, and if someones sex interests you then you talk about that. 

I'd also like to erase the modern use of the word "decimation" while we are at it

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Yup Krem's alright, had some interesting things to say about Tevinter and such. 15 pgs lol, should I go back and read this knowing how these threads go?

 

Based on the two times that I looked into it over those 15 pages: no.

[KainD]

We're stuck with these pronouns. You can't engineer it out. 

 

 

You can do anything if you really want to, but most people don't want to, or don't care. 

[CrimsonN7]

Based on the two times that I looked into it over those 15 pages: no.

 

K then, much thanks.

[Steelcan]

You can do anything if you really want to, but most people don't want to, or don't care.

*tries to grow wings*

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

K then, much thanks.

 

[KainD]

*tries to grow wings*

 

Transhumanism, ( Deus ex ), I think you can totally ''grow'' wings with enough research/work/resources.