739 réponses à ce sujet

[Vorathrad]

The conversation with Krem I liked best was the one where he explains how his father had to sell himself into slavery, because some magister started using his slaves to make the same aprons and simple garments his father made, so his business was ruined. I thought it was a nice punch to how many modern society industries work, but no one ever comments on it.

[Panda]

The conversation with Krem I liked best was the one where he explains how his father had to sell himself into slavery, because some magister started using his slaves to make the same aprons and simple garments his father made, so his business was ruined. I thought it was a nice punch to how many modern society industries work, but no one ever comments on it.

 

That's very nice point. It really does ring a bell for me, I have encountered issues with cheap labour force a lot with my studies and modern slavery that is part of that.

[daveliam]

Not looking very far.

http://forum.bioware...ter/?p=18747743

 

Yeah, it's not like it happens in every single thread in which Maevaris and Krem are brought up.  Plus almost any threads in which transpeople are discussed.  Plus almost any threads in which LGBT representation are mentions, right?

[Br3admax]

Tbh, while I personally don't believe in gender=social contract, and no amount of typed words from someone over the internet will convince me of it, I can respect any person enough to call them whatever they want to be called that's not a toaster(yes that's a real thing apparently). If Krem wanted me to call him/her a man, I'd be cool with that. He'd just be a boring, dry, and friendless man. Since that's what they were shooting for when they made Krem, I think that'd be fine. 

[Rekkampum]

Yeah, it's not like it happens in every single thread in which Maevaris and Krem are brought up.  Plus almost any threads in which transpeople are discussed.  Plus almost any threads in which LGBT representation are mentions, right?

 

They clearly haven't been here long. I'm an oldhead who still remembers the chaos from Fight For the Love and how they put a moratorium on topics because of how bad things got.

[Xilizhra]

Yep, not to mention the old romance threads. It was at that time I started to think about coming out, maybe to help people understand a little or help others like me, unfortunately there are just too many that seem to just want to hurt or make fun of people different from them. They can't see how much damage they can do to someone struggling with gender issues, someone that may come here for a release from real life or to talk about the first positive media representation of a Trans person that many of us have ever seen. It was exciting to have a Trans character that wasn't a joke but it's a shame that most of the trans people seem to have been driven off, that's why I've been angry recently. People I've gotten to know are gone now and I miss them.

Well, I haven't been. People who talk out of their asses can do so all they like, it doesn't make whatever inanity they happen to be spouting any more true.

[Lord Raijin]

Oh the irony. 

The irony is that the same man who created Krem's character also wrote The Masked Empire. Guess what was written on page 4?

 

 

 

This book is dedicated to the LGBTQ fans who have talked to all of us at BioWare via panel
questions, direct messages, Tumblr fan art, excited YouTube videos, and everything else. Thank you
for your kind words and your heartwarming—sometimes heartbreaking—stories. Thank you for
appreciating what we have done and challenging us to do more. But mostly, thank you for reaching
out and making your voices heard.

 

What a coincidence.... Dragon Age Inquisition wins yet another reward.... this time by the GLAAD Media Awards for its outstanding representation of LGBT characters.

 

http://www.polygon.c...ad-media-awards

 

Krem's character was designed specifically to cater the LGBTQ community, and nothing more. She had little to no interaction with the Inquisition. She just sat there in the tavern in one of the chairs drinking beer with the rest of the brutes as she tremendously suffers from a severe case of penis envy.

[Zobert]

Argh.  I do think Krem was poorly written.  It's like including the token black and making them discuss nothing but their blackness.  I would have loved it had they made Krem with more dialogue options and the trans stuff been optionally shoved in there which would have implies Krem was a "whole" character.

 

This is tokenism and I'm disappointed.  I think it does nothing for trans people except to say "Aren't we awesome and inclusive!  We put in a trans character before other gaming companies did it!"

 

That's a poor way to handle it.  Do or do not, there is not try when it comes to story.

 

In that "age" there is no way a transperson would have come out to a stranger, let alone an elf Inquisitor out of fear alone.  How did he know that the Inquisitor wouldn't be a judgmental and call him an abomination?  He didn't wouldn't and based on things we learned of Ferelden and even elven prejudice this is just not a smart move on "Krem"s part.  It takes you out of the story.

 

I would have loved for it not to be an issue until late in the game and have an actual storyline associated with it.

 

It was poorly written, he's not an amazing character, but certainly could have been.

[Rekkampum]

Argh.  I do think Krem was poorly written.  It's like including the token black and making them discuss nothing but their blackness.  I would have loved it had they made Krem with more dialogue options and the trans stuff been optionally shoved in there which would have implies Krem was a "whole" character.

 

This is tokenism and I'm disappointed.  I think it does nothing for trans people except to say "Aren't we awesome and inclusive!  We put in a trans character before other gaming companies did it!"

 

That's a poor way to handle it.  Do or do not, there is not try when it comes to story.

 

In that "age" there is no way a transperson would have come out to a stranger, let alone an elf Inquisitor out of fear alone.  How did he know that the Inquisitor wouldn't be a judgmental and call him an abomination?  He didn't wouldn't and based on things we learned of Ferelden and even elven prejudice this is just not a smart move on "Krem"s part.  It takes you out of the story.

 

I would have loved for it not to be an issue until late in the game and have an actual storyline associated with it.

 

It was poorly written, he's not an amazing character, but certainly could have been.

 

It is optional. You can learn about where he's from, some of the missions the Chargers have done, and about Iron Bull, among other things. Have you really tried talking to Krem?

[Legion of 1337]

Krem is just a side character, there's not much to it. Just because he's trans doesn't mean he's 'amazing' suddenly.

 

If you're going to heap praise on a non-straight character, at least pick Dorian since he's a fantastic character.

[Rekkampum]

Krem is just a side character, there's not much to it. Just because he's trans doesn't mean he's 'amazing' suddenly.

 

If you're going to heap praise on a non-straight character, at least pick Dorian since he's a fantastic character.

 

I'll take Sera over Dorian. He gets too much love, although I think his dialogue is the best.

[Zobert]

It is optional. You can learn about where he's from, some of the missions the Chargers have done, and about Iron Bull, among other things. Have you really tried talking to Krem?

 

Uh, yes?  You learn VERY LITTLE about him prior to getting to the trans thing and that's just a fact.  They made him slightly more than a scout and not a full companion, hence why we're thrust after 4-5 other veins right into the conversation or else left with nothing to talk to him about.

[Zobert]

Krem is just a side character, there's not much to it. Just because he's trans doesn't mean he's 'amazing' suddenly.

 

If you're going to heap praise on a non-straight character, at least pick Dorian since he's a fantastic character.

 

I like how Sera's gay thing is handled by not handling it.  She's just gay, but I also understand why Dorian's is the way it is.  It adds a real depth to his struggles in Tevinter and trying to love something (a way of life) that doesn't love him back.

 

It's very real.

[Vorathrad]

I don't get the problem with people liking whatever NPC they want. If someone has the hugest of crushes on Bonny Sims and wants to speak about her fabulous stall, I say let them do it. If you're not interested, it's as simple as not going into that thread.

[Lord Raijin]

Dorian is 1000x better than Krem and Sera put together.

[Rekkampum]

Uh, yes?  You learn VERY LITTLE about him prior to getting to the trans thing and that's just a fact.  They made him slightly more than a scout and not a full companion, hence why we're thrust after 4-5 other veins right into the conversation or else left with nothing to talk to him about.

 

Yep, you haven't talked with him before. There are several missions that they've done which he tells you about over time. He's also a minor character, so his dialogue won't be as fleshed out as Bull or another companion's.

[Zobert]

I don't get the problem with people liking whatever NPC they want. If someone has the hugest of crushes on Bonny Sims and wants to speak about her fabulous stall, I say let them do it. If you're not interested, it's as simple as not going into that thread.

 

If everyone only spoke to themselves without disagreement this place would be boring.

 

Krem had "moments" like the shaving story that were very touching but the problem was if Bioware was going to address a transcharacter in a non-token way they should have had him be more involved as say a companion because other than that it is very rushed.  Yes, its only an option to discuss but you will quickly run out of anything to say to Krem.  Thus he's a token character.

 

I would rather them have made him a companion or not done it at all.  Its like all you get is: how do you like the Iron Bull?  Uh huh.  How do you like Tevinter?  Uh huh.  When did you know?

 

Come on...

[Zobert]

Yep, you haven't talked with him before. There are several missions that they've done which he tells you about over time. He's also a minor character, so his dialogue won't be as fleshed out as Bull or another companion's.

 

I have certaily talked every bit of dialogue through with him and I disagree with you.  He is not a companion so you don't get a lot of dialogue with him which makes it problematic because you quickly run out of things to say when you're done talking about Bull and Tevinter in general.

 

Either do it up or don't do it, is my point.

 

For a non-companion he gets more screen time than Dagna or the Scout but its still not enough to make him fleshed out or anything more than a token trans which I think they did to be groundbreaking instead of committed.  If they were committed he'd be a companion.

[Xilizhra]

If everyone only spoke to themselves without disagreement this place would be boring.

 

Krem had "moments" like the shaving story that were very touching but the problem was if Bioware was going to address a transcharacter in a non-token way they should have had him be more involved as say a companion because other than that it is very rushed.  Yes, its only an option to discuss but you will quickly run out of anything to say to Krem.  Thus he's a token character.

 

I would rather them have made him a companion or not done it at all.  Its like all you get is: how do you like the Iron Bull?  Uh huh.  How do you like Tevinter?  Uh huh.  When did you know?

 

Come on...

It's water-testing. I wouldn't be surprised if there was direction from on high to not make Krem too integral.

[Rekkampum]

I have certaily talked every bit of dialogue through with him and I disagree with you.  He is not a companion so you don't get a lot of dialogue with him which makes it problematic because you quickly run out of things to say when you're done talking about Bull and Tevinter in general.

 

Either do it up or don't do it, is my point.

 

For a non-companion he gets more screen time than Dagna or the Scout but its still not enough to make him fleshed out or anything more than a token trans which I think they did to be groundbreaking instead of committed.  If they were committed he'd be a companion.

 

That isn't problematic, because the dialogue available- and it's a lot more than you're suggesting - doesn't entirely revolve around his identity as a transman. And I've already mentioned how you can ask him about missions he's done with the Chargers, and he'll discuss several, including one about giant spiders. It's why I'm having a hard time taking this comment about tokenism and you speaking with him seriously.

 

I get he's boring to a lot of folks, but he's definitely not a token.

 

On another note, I think it was better that they did so with restraint.

[daveliam]

It's water-testing. I wouldn't be surprised if there was direction from on high to not make Krem too integral.

 

My gut is this as well.  They've always just dipped a toe into LGBT content when first introducing it in the past.  The first m/m romance was so deeply hidden in the game that it was almost an Easter Egg.  The first lesbian romance had such a limited scope that people still argue that she didn't even count as a romance option.  The first gay male only romance was an NPC with a fairly short and not very well conceptualized plot.  In DA: O, only six years ago, the bisexual male LI asks permission from male characters to hit on him.  The only exception were the bisexual female romances that they implemented with a gusto by having the first one be able to be convinced to be in a three-way relationship with a male PC and another female LI.  Clearly, the audience for that wasn't lesbian ladies. 

 

My gut is that this game was testing the waters for the reaction to a trans character who is, undeniably, trans.  I've thought for a while now that the first trans companion will likely be Maevaris and Krem might have served a dual purpose:  offering trans representation, but also testing out the reaction before they go all in and create a trans companion.  I also suspect that we are no where near getting a trans LI.  It's still too controversial.  If it were a transwoman, like Mae, who was available for straight male PCs, I suspect the reaction would not be positive.  And, if I'm being honest, I'm not sure it would be much better for any other demographic as well.