739 réponses à ce sujet

[Rekkampum]

I disagree (but thanks for polite disagreement).  When you take writing--or even read Stephen King's novel on writing, they tell you that once you make the rules for your world be consistent with them.  Thedas has had rules about who can marry whom, who can lead the Chantry, who is this class or that class.  They made the rules.  If they wanted to change they need a Deus ex Machina moment where you see that change coming from above, not switch behind the scenes between games.

 

Anyway, I like that you disagree nicely.  That rarely happens on forums.

 

Dragon Age is part of a medium that allows you to have room because it makes - for all sake of argument - things that are otherwise impossible in the real world to be attainable or even a common aspect of that established world. The world of Dragon Age for the most part has followed its rules; there is a Chantry, but there are also elves who've warred with them. There's the Qun, with the Qunari in the Northern areas of Thedas. There are dwarves, with their Paragons and underground societies.

 

The class system, while similar to medieval Europe, has key distinctions in that some of the most influential figures are matriarchal, with the Divines of the Sunburst Throne, the Left and Right Hand, etc. You have Templars who imbibe strange fluids to be able to block magic, and Seekers who derive their powers from ancient rituals. Then there's the Imperium which once ruled all of Thedas - I think that's a blatant analogue of Rome - and also responsible for the very Blight that's stricken the world, thanks to the ambition of Corypheus and the other Magisters that stormed the Black City. You also have a political system used to control those with magical ability in the Circles. So, as far as the universe has been established, I think it is consistent.

 

But yeah, I'm a passionate debater, but I nonetheless respect others, even those I disagree with strongly. Been here for years and have seen much worse in my time.

[Xilizhra]

I could start a thread on it beginning with how many rules of the Qun were changed between DA2 and this one.

No they weren't. Iron Bull didn't say anything inconsistent, he just clarified things.

[Rekkampum]

I could start a thread on it beginning with how many rules of the Qun were changed between DA2 and this one.

 

Gaider actually talked about that in a thread in the Feedback section. He went into a lot of detail.

[Zobert]

Dragon Age is part of a medium that allows you to have room because it makes - for all sake of argument - things that are otherwise impossible in the real world to be attainable or even a common aspect of that established world. The world of Dragon Age for the most part has followed its rules; there is a Chantry, but there are also elves who've warred with them. There's the Qun, with the Qunari in the Northern areas of Thedas. There are dwarves, with their Paragons and underground societies.

 

The class system, while similar to medieval Europe, has key distinctions in that some of the most influential figures are matriarchal, with the Divines of the Sunburst Throne, the Left and Right Hand, etc. You have Templars who imbibe strange fluids to be able to block magic, and Seekers who derive their powers from ancient rituals. Then there's the Imperium which once ruled all of Thedas - I think that's a blatant analogue of Rome - and also responsible for the very Blight that's stricken the world, thanks to the ambition of Corypheus and the other Magisters that stormed the Black City. You also have a political system used to control those with magical ability in the Circles. So, as far as the universe has been established, I think it is consistent.

 

But yeah, I'm a passionate debater, but I nonetheless respect others, even those I disagree with strongly. Been here for years and have seen much worse in my time.

 

 

How about this since this is becoming it's own thread and I find the subject interesting enough to warrant its own....we do this up in its own thread and let this one return to Krem?

 

I'll start it later, I just don't know how to "tell" you about it?  Do I PM you?

[Zobert]

Gaider actually talked about that in a thread in the Feedback section. He went into a lot of detail.

 

Linky?  I'll be your best friend if you do. 

[Zobert]

No they weren't. Iron Bull didn't say anything inconsistent, he just clarified things.

 

I disagree.  I feel that was kluge-y, but like I said we ought to make this its own thread instead of mucking up "Krems" thread.

[Rekkampum]

Linky?  I'll be your best friend if you do. 

 

A person created this thread commenting on what they felt were changes in the Qunari and Gaider went into extensive detail about the subject. It's very informative.

[o Ventus]

_{How people find Cassandra to be manly and Josephine to be ugly is beyond me} 

Because I'm guessing the only women they've seen before are the ones in porn and fashion shows.

[Rekkampum]

How about this since this is becoming it's own thread and I find the subject interesting enough to warrant its own....we do this up in its own thread and let this one return to Krem?

 

I'll start it later, I just don't know how to "tell" you about it?  Do I PM you?

 

Sure.

[Vorathrad]

A person created this thread commenting on what they felt were changes in the Qunari and Gaider went into extensive detail about the subject. It's very informative.

Thank you! I was about to say "pretty please"

[Rekkampum]

Because I'm guessing the only women they've seen before are the ones in porn and fashion shows.

 

I saw someone once refer to Vivienne as a "drag queen" while she wore her Hennin. Too much hentai, I say.

[daveliam]

Does anyone think Krem is a homage to the character Mulan about a girl who disguises herself as a male soldier named "Ping" to bravely take her father's place in the Imperial Army? 

 

Not really, mainly because Mulan was always a girl disguised as a man.  Krem identifies as a man, so it's different.  Plus, didn't Krem's refusal to conform to gender norms actually cause her father to go into slavery?  But I can see where you might make those connections to some degree.

 

I saw someone once refer to Vivienne as a "drag queen" while she wore her Hennin. Too much hentai, I say.

 

Agreed, buuuuuuut.........I could totally see an underground NYC drag queen rocking that look (especially the peek-a-boo boob window version).  Now I want RuPaul's Drag Race to do a 'fantasy character' themed episode.  Vivienne, Red Sonja, Danaerys, Cersei, Galadriel, etc.  There is so much potential here!  But I digress........

[o Ventus]

I saw someone once refer to Vivienne as a "drag queen" while she wore her Hennin. Too much hentai, I say.

In what way does her hennin make her look like a drag queen? 

 

F**k's sake, people could at least make sense when they complain instead of just prattling off nonsense.

[Rekkampum]

Not really, mainly because Mulan was always a girl disguised as a man.  Krem identifies as a man, so it's different.  Plus, didn't Krem's refusal to conform to gender norms actually cause her father to go into slavery?  But I can see where you might make those connections to some degree.

 

 

Agreed, buuuuuuut.........I could totally see an underground NYC drag queen rocking that look (especially the peek-a-boo boob window version).  Now I want RuPaul's Drag Race to do a 'fantasy character' themed episode.  Vivienne, Red Sonja, Danaerys, Cersei, Galadriel, etc.  There is so much potential here!  But I digress........

 

DON'T! You're making that comparison make sense! I'd like to see a fantasy themed Ball House show. They have some rocking indie designers.  

 

The story of Mulan in the legend also is much more interesting and doesn't have the crappy trappings of the American film.

Spoiler

When her crew finds out, they are actually supportive in contrast to the American version.

 

RE: Krem, his dad got outmatched by some nobles who sold the types of stuff he made for insanely cheaper prices.

[Rekkampum]

In what way does her hennin make her look like a drag queen? 

 

F**k's sake, people could at least make sense when they complain instead of just prattling off nonsense.

 

That's what I thought myself. They must watch too many stereotypical reality shows. But yeah, they're trolls, so'll they will say anything.

[Panda]

Thank you, great horned one.

 

You can't use Krem in the next one because for many people he

Spoiler

dies

in that Qunari mission.

 

I'm under impression that him actually

Spoiler

dying wasn't show on screen so he could have just got hurt and go somewhere to heal up maybe? ^^; Well, unless someone's head is cut-off in games, anime's, comics or whatever I won't believe they have died since people always keep popping back in these medias. Actually even head being cut-off isn't permanent, I have seen people comeback after that one too.

. I guess I'm trying to say that it wouldn't be too odd for me if he was in DA4.

[Br3admax]

They would obviously check. It's not like we just walked away. There's also the fact that Cole exists and talks on it. 

[otis0310]

An amazing character is one which well written.  One that has a very deep personality and complex motivations.  Morrigan and Alistair are both good examples of this, as iand perhaps especialy Loghain Mac Tir.  If you like the characters or not is irrelevant, for example you can hate Darth Vader, but he is still an amazing character.  Their sex, race,creed, and sexual orientation are also not relevant.  They can be a black gay woman or white straight man, it does not matter as long as they are well written they can still be amazing.

 

Under this definition Krem is not an amazing character.  In fact he/she exists just to give a nod to a minority.  Krem is not well written, his/her personality is not that great.  In fact there is no logical reason for Krem to be in the story other than as a nod to a minority. This would make Krem a token character, not an amazing one.

[Cespar]

Really? Best thing that ever happen to this demented selfish woman. serves her right for selling her family out back at home.

Krem's father wasn't about to let him pretend to be something he didn't feel in the inside. Like Krem said, his father always knew. Parents sacrifice things all the time for their children.

Maybe in the next game, if it take place in Tevinter, Krem might actually have a side quest to help his father. Or Krem could be saving up money to buy his father back.

[o Ventus]

Really? Best thing that ever happen to this demented selfish woman. serves her right for selling her family out back at home.

Going out of your way to troll every other thread must get really boring. I don't have the mental stamina to keep at it.

[Zobert]

Moral ambiguity makes for discussion.  Some understood Anders, others didn't.  Some will understand Krem's positions, others won't.

[BabyPuncher]

An amazing character is one which well written.  One that has a very deep personality and complex motivations.

 

Not really.

 

Plenty of great characters have very simple and clean motivations. More often than not, a character with supposed 'complex motivations' is a character with simple motivations and a lot of contrived stupidity mixed in.

[Eliastion]

An amazing character is one which well written.  One that has a very deep personality and complex motivations.  (...)

 

Not really.

 

Plenty of great characters have very simple and clean motivations. More often than not, a character with supposed 'complex motivations' is a character with simple motivations and a lot of contrived stupidity mixed in.

You're both right and wrong, both of you actually. A truly great character does indeed need some complexity (though more in personality than motivation department, really). The thing is, however, that MUCH COMPLEXITY doesn't guarantee a great character - attempts at making it complex for complexity's sake have good chances of being utter failures. It's a bit like cooking - it's the way ingredients work together that matters, not sheer "complexity" of the dish. Just throwing everything you find in your fridge and adding a ton of mismatched spices isn't good cooking. A couple mindfully picked things with a bit of well thought-out seasoning are much preferable despite not being nearly as complex...

[Rekkampum]

You're both right and wrong, both of you actually. A truly great character does indeed need some complexity (though more in personality than motivation department, really). The thing is, however, that MUCH COMPLEXITY doesn't guarantee a great character - attempts at making it complex for complexity's sake have good chances of being utter failures. It's a bit like cooking - it's the way ingredients work together that matters, not sheer "complexity" of the dish. Just throwing everything you find in your fridge and adding a ton of mismatched spices isn't good cooking. A couple mindfully picked things with a bit of well thought-out seasoning are much preferable despite not being nearly as complex...

 

Not to mention being major or minor as far as one's role in a plot is concerned isn't an indicator of their worth as far as execution is concerned.