No, I was referring to someone being called "cancer," not the disease itself.
Like there's a meaningful difference. Calling a transwoman "dude" is nothing like calling a cancer patient "cancer". Having cancer has nothing at all to do with sex, gender, or any kind of dimorphism.
Guest_Danielle100_*
At least Krem isn't on a soapbox crying right now any how he needs acceptance.
Guest_John Wayne_*
At least Krem isn't on a soapbox crying right now any how he needs acceptance.
Understanding is one of the keys to acceptance. If people are so unwilling to understand the reality of being transgender, transgender people will never be accepted. It's not about being on a soap boxing and cry. It's about helping people understand what it means to be transgender so they can accept it.
Can I ask why you feel you know more about this subject than someone that's lived through it?
An equally good question is why he feels it's necessary to not accommodate someone's expressed desire or wishes? There is no skin off his back in doing so (no, there really is not).
Krem is an amazing character by the way.
Guest_John Wayne_*
The subject is Krem, not your insecurities, in case you didn't know. Currently I'm the only one actually on topic.
Well, it's logical that Krem was made into a transgender character in order to foster conversation about being transgender. After all, if that was not the case, why make a transgender character in the first place?
Also, it seems like you are the one having a knee jerk reaction or going of your way to be rude. Perhaps you are the one that is insecure .
Guest_Danielle100_*
I could also ask why someone of the opposite gender feels so confident in telling me what it means to be a man.
Understanding is one of the keys to acceptance. If people are so unwilling to understand the reality of being transgender, transgender people will never be accepted. It's not about being on a soap boxing and cry. It's about helping people understand what it means to be transgender so they can accept it.
Nobody so far has stated anything along the lines of "unwilling to understand the reality of being transgender".
Which is fine and dandy, except you, or anyone, shouldn't care regardless. No one cares, no one who matters, about you're genitalia. Not in this sense anyway. Understanding doesn't lead to acceptance, acceptance does. Because while I understand how transgender people feel, and while I understand what they want, it does not make me feel more inclined to call them their pronoun of choice. I honestly don't know where the mindset comes from. Some of us disagree for much bigger reasons than confusion. We get what a transgender person is. It's a pretty straightforward concept. And our acceptance of transgender people shouldn't be the goal. Live for yourself.Understanding is one of the keys to acceptance. If people are so unwilling to understand the reality of being transgender, transgender people will never be accepted. It's not about being on a soap boxing and cry. It's about helping people understand what it means to be transgender so they can accept it.
An equally good question is why he feels it's necessary to not accommodate someone's expressed desire or wishes? There is no skin off his back in doing so (no, there really is not).
Krem is an amazing character by the way.
Who says I don't. I don't call people like Danielle there a she if they don't wish to be called such. Not on purpose anyway. When it comes to Krem, I call Krem Krem, and ignore the he's and she's. But in a discussion, where people are supposed to give their view on things, I can only be truthful. I am not into lying to make others feel better. That's just how I was raised.
The subject is Krem, not your insecurities, in case you didn't know. Currently I'm the only one actually on topic.
Given that Krem is transgender and there has been a discussion of his choice and given that this is a real-time and real-world issue this is all very much on topic.
I love the experts in this thread who've never experienced what it's like to experience gender dysphoria. Speaking as a cisgender male I think I'd prefer to listen to the expert opinion of those that have experienced it first-hand than the self-appointed experts who have no understanding of the subject.
Just how is it that I'm telling you how to be a man? I seem to remember you telling me that what a trans person feels is rubbish.
I wasn't referring to you.
Guest_John Wayne_*
Which is fine and dandy, except you, or anyone, shouldn't care regardless. No one cares, no one who matters, about you're genitalia. Not in this sense anyway. Understanding doesn't lead to acceptance, acceptance does. Because while I understand how transgender people feel, and while I understand what they want, it does not make me feel more inclined to call them their pronoun of choice. I honestly don't know where the mindset comes from. Some of is disagree for much bigger reasons than confusion. We get what a transgender person is. It's a pretty straightforward concept. And our acceptance of transgender people shouldn't be the goal. Live for yourself.
Have you noticed how humanity as a whole has not moved forward in many years and how a lot of the old problems we have are still around? The reason is because we are far to fragmented and people are not willing to accept one another for what they are. So, yes acceptance in general should be the goal everyone should be pushing too. We all have to share this word and it does not revolve around you, myself or anyone else. Also many of the problems one group faces do effect you. Even if you don't think they do.
Guest_Danielle100_*
I wasn't referring to you.
You might find interesting to know that some cultures and languages don't have different words for "gender" and "sex" because both concepts are used interchangeably, and yet there seems to be a lot less problems with self-acceptance, obsessive labeling, prejudice and victim playing.
Maybe, just maybe, you're creating the problem by turning that "gender" concept into some kind of joke.
Sorry
All good. Btw, you're more coolheaded than most I've seen in these discussions coming in from your pov. Even if we disagree, I appreciate that.
You might find interesting to know that some cultures and languages don't have different words for "gender" and "sex" and both concepts are used exchangeably because of it, yet there seems to be a lot less problems with obsessive labeling (and therefore, prejudice).
Maybe, just maybe, you're creating the problem by turning that "gender" concept into a joke.
If I could like this more than once, I would.
I feel for people in minority groups who aren't readily understood (like trans people), but when I see them play some kind of victim card like there's a systematic oppression of the group in question, it makes me lose sympathy. Thankfully in this case it's usually confined to online places like Tumblr (where EVERYBODY is either a self-diagnosed autism sufferer, some overly-convoluted form of -sexual, or any other kind of mental case). I know that the majority of trans people don't act like this, and that it's just a really vocal, really annoying minority.
I love the experts in this thread who've never experienced what it's like to experience gender dysphoria. Speaking as a cisgender male I think I'd prefer to listen to the expert opinion of those that have experienced it first-hand than the self-appointed experts who have no understanding of the subject.
Call me crazy but I think the perspective of those that identify with what they were born as is just as valuable as the other perspective, all things considered.
Scientifically speaking, there's a reason when experimenting, they have controlled, dependent, and independent variables.
All good. Btw, you're more coolheaded than most I've seen in these discussions coming in from your pov. Even if we disagree, I appreciate that.
Are you going to answer her question, though? She wanted to know why you felt you knew more about being transgender than she does, being that she's transgender. You deflected her question and never answered. If she is telling you her experience as someone who has gone through this, why do you feel that your opinion (note: opinion, not experience) should be offered as a counterpoint against her claims?
Guest_Danielle100_*
All good. Btw, you're more coolheaded than most I've seen in these discussions coming in from your pov. Even if we disagree, I appreciate that.
The hormones ARE what make it biological (among other things, but hormones are one of the most important factors). The testosterone and estrogen you're exposed in utero to play a substantial part in determining how one identifies. More testosterone, and you're more likely (key phrase: more likely; not necessarily a guarantee, to my knowledge) to identify as a guy. More estrogen, you're more likely to identify as a female.
Re: What makes a Trans person feel the way that they do: (current scientific hypothesis; TLDR version)
All humans embryos start out as biologially female. At ~ 8 weeks, a series of hormonal washes - dependant primarily on your chromosonal composition, e.g., XX, XY, XXX, XXY, XXXX, XXYY, XXYYY, Mosaic, etc, but also some other factors - trigger changes throughout the body (including the brain). If these hormonal washes do not proceed in exactly a certain way in certain amounts at a certain time, the embryo will not be definitively XX - hetero female, or XY - hetero male. Generally, it's "close enough", but not always. Since these changes are body-wide, they also effect brain development, and thus self-awareness and thought. This can lead to, for example, possessing "male" genitalia with a "female" brain, among a wide variety of states. It's not a mistake or error. It is perhaps uncommon, but still perfectly within the expected parameters of human development, much like having a particular combination of hue, shade, tint and tone makes your exact skin, hair or eye color.
This is a vast, vast, over-simplification just for the sake of helping you begin to understand the basic mechanisms behind "why".
If I could like this more than once, I would.
I feel for people in minority groups who aren't readily understood (like trans people), but when I see them play some kind of victim card like there's a systematic oppression of the group in question, it makes me lose sympathy. Thankfully in this case it's usually confined to online places like Tumblr (where EVERYBODY is either a self-diagnosed autism sufferer, some overly-convoluted form of -sexual, or any other kind of mental case). I know that the majority of trans people don't act like this, and that it's just a really vocal, really annoying minority.
Look at the date. This was published March 15th. It's not just some Tumblr thing (Hey is this the new code/buzz word we can all use now to dismiss stuff we don't want to care about? "Aw man, that's just some crazy Tumblr S---"). This is what trans people face every day.
http://www.slate.com...first_vote.html
There is no "victim card" being played when the discrimination is real and even made legal in some cases.
Are you going to answer her question, though? She wanted to know why you felt you knew more about being transgender than she does, being that she's transgender. You deflected her question and never answered. If she is telling you her experience as someone who has gone through this, why do you feel that your opinion (note: opinion, not experience) should be offered as a counterpoint against her claims?
I never stated that I knew more than Danielle firstly. That was an assumption made because I didn't agree. I don't have to know more about a subject to disagree, and someone who supposedly knows more about something can certainly be wrong.
And with that in mind, the topic isn't just about how transgender people are but how we all are. Everyone here knows what it's like to identify with a gender, and what it's like to have that identity be altered through societal construction.
Hence this quote:
Call me crazy but I think the perspective of those that identify with what they were born as is just as valuable as the other perspective, all things considered.
Scientifically speaking, there's a reason when experimenting, they have controlled, dependent, and independent variables.
If she is telling you her experience as someone who has gone through this, why do you feel that your opinion (note: opinion, not experience) should be offered as a counterpoint against her claims?
One does not need to be a member of the group in question to be able to give a valid opinion on said group. That would be like invalidating the efforts of the white Freedom Riders in the 60's, because they're white.
Guest_John Wayne_*
Look at the date. This was published March 15th. It's not just some Tumblr thing (Hey is this the new code/buzz word we can all use now to dismiss stuff we don't want to care about? "Aw man, that's just some crazy Tumblr S---"). This is what trans people face every day.
http://www.slate.com...first_vote.html
There is no "victim card" being played when the discrimination is real and even made legal in some cases.
Just look at Indiana's Religious Freedoms Act. It blatantly legalizes discrimination under the guise of "Protecting Religious Freedom."
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