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[SofaJockey]

Krem is a minor but significant character and I am delighted by and support his inclusion in the game.

 

(time also to duck out before this thread degenerates...)

[Eliastion]

(...) and that his gender identity isn't what defines him makes him that much better(...)

But the problem is that his gender identity IS what defines him. Really, he got so little characterization that this one trait is one of the biggest ones there, possibly THE biggest. And it's thrown into your face before you know anything about him.

I know it's a different matter, but contrast Dorian's or Sera's sexuality - you learn about it (or not) somewhere along the way, while getting to know and (dis)like their characters. It may play pivotal role in their lives, really (in Dorian's case) but it's just one of many elements. With Krem? Not so much. It's a defining factor, if only for the sole reason of there being so little other things that could define him.

[Ieldra]

But the problem is that his gender identity IS what defines him. Really, he got so little characterization that this one trait is one of the biggest ones there, possibly THE biggest. And it's thrown into your face before you know anything about him.

I know it's a different matter, but contrast Dorian's or Sera's sexuality - you learn about it (or not) somewhere along the way, while getting to know and (dis)like their characters. It may play pivotal role in their lives, really (in Dorian's case) but it's just one of many elements. With Krem? Not so much. It's a defining factor, if only for the sole reason of there being so little other things that could define him.

I always play Krem's scenes without mentioning their, say, special circumstances, because I feel they've been shoehorned in, I have significant disagreements about the way that issue is handled by our culture's speech police (while I do support "live and let live" almost to a fault), and I don't care for it. However, I still think Krem has enough profile and presence, specifically in mannerisms and style of speech, to stand on their own as a minor character in DAI's story.

 

So no, I don't think transgenderism is what defines Krem as a character. Being an experienced member of a mercenary company with  a noticeable "informal military" mindset that fits well with such a life, that's what Krem is before anything else, and it comes across very well. It is a simple way of characterizing a person, and that's appropriate for a  minor character. Saying Krem is "amazing" is complete hyperbole, but enough characterization exists to make them more than a carrier for a social issue. 

[Qun00]

I always play Krem's scenes without mentioning their, say, special circumstances, because I feel they've been shoehorned in, I have significant disagreements about the way that issue is handled by our culture's speech police (while I do support "live and let live" almost to a fault), and I don't care for it. However, I still think Krem has enough profile and presence, specifically in mannerisms and style of speech, to stand on their own as a minor character in DAI's story.
 
So no, I don't think transgenderism is what defines Krem as a character. Being an experienced member of a mercenary company, that's what Krem is before anything else, and it comes across very well.

Let's just drop the politically correct act and be honest here. Krem being transgender is the main thing that defines the character.

Want someone whose sexuality, condition, option or whatever is merely a fact of who they are? Sera.

If Sera were straight she still would be the same person.

[Rekkampum]

But the problem is that his gender identity IS what defines him. Really, he got so little characterization that this one trait is one of the biggest ones there, possibly THE biggest. And it's thrown into your face before you know anything about him.

I know it's a different matter, but contrast Dorian's or Sera's sexuality - you learn about it (or not) somewhere along the way, while getting to know and (dis)like their characters. It may play pivotal role in their lives, really (in Dorian's case) but it's just one of many elements. With Krem? Not so much. It's a defining factor, if only for the sole reason of there being so little other things that could define him.

 

It's not thrown in your face. Perhaps you feel that way, but that's not all there is to Krem.

[Ieldra]

Let's just drop the politically correct act and be honest here. Krem being transgender is the main thing that defines the character.

As I said, I always play Krem's scenes without mentioning the "gender identity" question at all, so it never comes up in conversations, and I am definitely not left with nothing when I do that. Krem's main character traits come across every bit as strongly.

 

Really, try it. Play Krem's scenes that way, pretend that this "gender identity" thing is completely irrelevant, uninteresting to your Inquisitor to the point that it doesn't deserve mention, or doesn't even exist. Krem still works as a character.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Except Bioware has made it obvious that in the Qun you get no say in your role once you get it. So by definition there is no consent. 

The consent exists in submission to the Qun in general. It's a philosophy which outright rejections free will to begin with so by signing up with it people have already consented to the demands of the Qun whatever they may be.

[Rekkampum]

Let's just drop the politically correct act and be honest here. Krem being transgender is the main thing that defines the character.

Want someone whose sexuality, condition, option or whatever is merely a fact of who they are? Sera.

If Sera were straight she still would be the same person.

 

I didn't know giving Krem a penis would somehow fundamentally change who he was.

[KaiserShep]

As I said, I always play Krem's scenes without mentioning the "gender identity" question at all, so it never comes up in conversations, and I am definitely not left with nothing when I do that. Krem's main character traits come across every bit as strongly.

 

Really, try it. Play Krem's scenes that way, pretend that this "gender identity" thing is completely irrelevant, uninteresting to your Inquisitor to the point that it doesn't deserve mention, or doesn't even exist. Krem still works as a character.

 

I agree. This is pretty much what I did since the beginning. I didn't really know about all of Bull's dialogue on the subject until reading about it here. It just seemed better if my Inquisitor was casual about the whole thing and just didn't pay it any mind. Of course, I had to fight the compulsion to select questions in dialogue because they're there, which is not something I really thought about until this game. Anyway, Krem's character seemed to stand up well enough without it, and I really like how he added to Bull's ensemble.

[Heimdall]

Krem compliments Bull well enough, but let's be honest:

Nobody would see Krem as anything more than a bland side character if he weren't transgender.

[Ieldra]

Krem compliments Bull well enough, but let's be honest:

Nobody would see Krem as anything more than a bland side character if he weren't transgender.

Krem wouldn't get nearly as much attention, sure, but compared with other minor characters, I still think Jennifer Hale's voice acting stands out as anything but bland.

[Panda]

Krem compliments Bull well enough, but let's be honest:

Nobody would see Krem as anything more than a bland side character if he weren't transgender.

 

That's simply untrue. Why do people love Scout Harding then? Dagna? Bann Teagan? They are all side characters and although Krem is bland for you he might not be that to others.

[Colonelkillabee]

Why is that, exactly?

Because it's not inclusive enough for their gentle souls, that's why.

[Heimdall]

That's simply untrue. Why do people love Scout Harding then? Dagna? Bann Teagan? They are all side characters and although Krem is bland for you he might not be that to others.

Because they're interesting, though Harding gets attention in part just because the Inquisitor can flirt with her. Krem isn't very prominent aside from bantering with Bull in which he's usually standing in for the Chargers as a whole, I'd argue that he's even more a side character than any of those you mentioned.

[Colonelkillabee]

This is Bioware. They're not going to subtly create that implication; if the implication was meant to be there, it'd be obvious. So I'm fairly sure that consent is still a thing.

Since when did slaves give consent?

[Boost32]

I didn't know giving Krem a penis would somehow fundamentally change who he was.

It would.
If he had it, he would not have the problems with her mother, he would marry a woman, would be accepted in the army, would never have met Bull, his whole life would be different.

[Rekkampum]

The consent exists in submission to the Qun in general. It's a philosophy which outright rejections free will to begin with so by signing up with it people have already consented to the demands of the Qun whatever they may be.

 

Sex isn't all the Tamassrans do and they're the ones who decide what the people that consult them need. They raise the children and educate them, name them, care for the disabled, and control the Qunari's mating process.

They're not sex slaves. But don't let the lore refute that assumption.

 

Boost32,

 

You're wrong. Krem actually would've been sold into slavery, just as he almost was.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Sex isn't all the Tamassrans do and they're the ones who decide what the people that consult them need. They raise the children and educate them, name them, care for the disabled, and control the Qunari's mating process.

They're not sex slaves. But don't let the lore refute that assumption.

Never said that was all they did, nor that they were sex slaves actually.

[Rekkampum]

Never said that was all they did, nor that they were sex slaves actually.

 

That's what this whole argument about consent stems from.

[Solbranthius]

It always baffles me when people fawn over a character and claim that they're amazing based on a tiny aspect of their background or personality. I think it sums up a lot of what is wrong with today's society. I'm a bisexual guy and I love it when a bisexual character happens to be portrayed in a decent manner. Yet I don't go around claiming that they're the best thing ever based purely on that fact.

 

Then again, pandering to minorities seems to be something that gains a lot of success within certain online circles these days...

 

But sure, let's set back the movement of equality by objectifying sexuality and gender identities. 

[TK514]

I don't think Krem was anything special, but I do think Hale did a good job with the voicework.