I don't know why they stay with the inquisitor. Why was the Iron Bull a companion again? Same problem with a lot of the companions. I probably missed a lot of there back stories but I think we can do better.
Let's be constructive and write some stories for the companions.
iirc Iron Bull's task was to observe the Inquisition and send detailed reports, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that jazz.
I would like to see something more about Iron Bull. If you don't romance him, after his companion quest you can't have any conversation with him that aren't "I like talking to you, boss".
What I would like though is a backstory for Vivienne, she was such an interesting character, personality-wise she was someone you would never see eye to eye with especially when you don't agree with her elitist attitude.
Her experiences in the Circle were barely touched and how he came upon the late Duke.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'd only improve Bull.. I liked how he struggled with his two impulses, but I didn't like how comfortably "human" and approachable he already was. If you're going to make a human, then just make one.
Before release, I half-expected he was more discovering how to be this way.. and losing himself to it. Something almost childlike and funny. Instead Bull is an expert. To me, it's a little annoying from a Qunari. As if he has all the worldy, hedonistic experience of an Isabela or Zevran. And is some Qunari James Bond. Not digging it.
I'd only improve Bull.. I liked how he struggled with his two impulses, but I didn't like how comfortably "human" and approachable he already was. If you're going to make a human, then just make one.
Before release, I half-expected he was more discovering how to be this way.. and losing himself to it. Something almost childlike and funny. Instead Bull is an expert. To me, it's a little annoying from a Qunari. As if he has all the worldy, hedonistic experience of an Isabela or Zevran. And is some Qunari James Bond. Not digging it.
Guest_Donkson_*
I don't know why they stay with the inquisitor. Why was the Iron Bull a companion again? Same problem with a lot of the companions. I probably missed a lot of there back stories but I think we can do better.
Let's be constructive and write some stories for the companions.
The back stories of companions are pretty vague, I will admit.
Save for Cassandra's.. and those we already know such as Lel and Morrigan (not really "companions" though).
But on the flip side of this, it's a little more realistic to have some.. mystery behind the companions. I mean, if you just met somebody, other than what they choose to tell you, you really have no idea of what their past is..
What I love about Sera is that even if you romance her, there's still a lot you don't know. 
I'm cool with that though.. it's part of the appeal.
I don't think that the companions needed more backstories, imo they needed to be more involved in the game. I think all companions quests need 'begining - middle - end" in their stories and in most cases this should have been more integrated into the main story. Cullen's mini quest with lyrium is the perfect example of it done right.
I'm fine with Bull being "human" it doesn't take the Inquisition for him to have his doubts, that happened long before that and he out to be comfortably "human" because he is a spy anyways. Him being hedonistic is an expression of his Qunari side, it becomes more obvious if you romance him. What did got lost in translation was that Bull was there to spy and make sure that the Qunari goals were met, it all got too focused on his personal problem. Another important flaw in Bull's quest is that the battle itself and thread to charges doesn't feel very important. The problem is the "choreography", it is especially hard to put your disbelieve aside when you see a handful of Venatori walking casually up the hill, forced drama right there.
Cassandras quest is too short, you never really deal with consequences, half of it is done through WT and you basically just run in to kill stuff and run out. It would be interesting to actually investigate and get involved since her quest is very closely connected to the main quest.
Vivienne should have had a bigger role in Winter Palace, she probably even could have been a mandatory companion there regardless of whenever you recruit her or not. People should also be allowed to bicker with her more and then lose the argument to her every single time, it would give the opportunity to flesh her character more, make her superiority more believable .
Sera more or less was fine, I know people like to have the option to punch her and other adore her, so I would say that as far as Sera goes "mission accomplished". Speaking about punching, companions are out to be able to punch PC, it should not be one way street where PC can get physical. The dialogue options with her felt a bit campy at time.
Blackwall also has an ok quest, but it also lacks the aftermath part, after so much drama it feels much ado about nothing.
Varric is the most problematic to me as companion, mostly because the lyrium drama is very easy to be dismissed, so his quest doesn't seem all that important.
Dorian has problem in that if you don't romance him, the interactions with him can become non-existent once you do his father quest. It's as if he only exists for that quest and nothing else.
I think Solas is fine as is. I like the fact that much about him is locked in romance (I never romanced him)
Cole is ok too, a bit more interaction would not hurt. His introduction on the Templar side is much better than the mage side, especially if you are not familiar with the books.
I think I didn't missed anyone....
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'm fine with Bull being "human" it doesn't take the Inquisition for him to have his doubts, that happened long before that and he out to be comfortably "human" because he is a spy anyways. Him being hedonistic is an expression of his Qunari side, it becomes more obvious if you romance him. What did got lost in translation was that Bull was there to spy and make sure that the Qunari goals were met, it all got too focused on his personal problem. Another important flaw in Bull's quest is that the battle itself and thread to charges doesn't feel very important. The problem is the "choreography", it is especially hard to put your disbelieve aside when you see a handful of Venatori walking casually up the hill, forced drama right there.
He's so comfortably human he instructs me how to be human. It's one thing to be a Qunari spy familiar with humans.. another to be a master of it.. He's like Zorba the Greek, in a way. I don't know if you're familiar with the novel. Kind of an archetypal wise man of the world, instructing a younger man how to live.
It's annoying here. Especially coming after DA2. They didn't prepare me for anything like this. Not even Tallis was this way.
I don't think that the companions needed more backstories, imo they needed to be more involved in the game. I think all companions quests need 'begining - middle - end" in their stories and in most cases this should have been more integrated into the main story. Cullen's mini quest with lyrium is the perfect example of it done right.
I'm fine with Bull being "human" it doesn't take the Inquisition for him to have his doubts, that happened long before that and he out to be comfortably "human" because he is a spy anyways. Him being hedonistic is an expression of his Qunari side, it becomes more obvious if you romance him. What did got lost in translation was that Bull was there to spy and make sure that the Qunari goals were met, it all got too focused on his personal problem. Another important flaw in Bull's quest is that the battle itself and thread to charges doesn't feel very important. The problem is the "choreography", it is especially hard to put your disbelieve aside when you see a handful of Venatori walking casually up the hill, forced drama right there.
Cassandras quest is too short, you never really deal with consequences, half of it is done through WT and you basically just run in to kill stuff and run out. It would be interesting to actually investigate and get involved since her quest is very closely connected to the main quest.
Vivienne should have had a bigger role in Winter Palace, she probably even could have been a mandatory companion there regardless of whenever you recruit her or not. People should also be allowed to bicker with her more and then lose the argument to her every single time, it would give the opportunity to flesh her character more, make her superiority more believable .
Sera more or less was fine, I know people like to have the option to punch her and other adore her, so I would say that as far as Sera goes "mission accomplished". Speaking about punching, companions are out to be able to punch PC, it should not be one way street where PC can get physical. The dialogue options with her felt a bit campy at time.
Blackwall also has an ok quest, but it also lacks the aftermath part, after so much drama it feels much ado about nothing.
Varric is the most problematic to me as companion, mostly because the lyrium drama is very easy to be dismissed, so his quest doesn't seem all that important.
Dorian has problem in that if you don't romance him, the interactions with him can become non-existent once you do his father quest. It's as if he only exists for that quest and nothing else.
I think Solas is fine as is. I like the fact that much about him is locked in romance (I never romanced him)
Cole is ok too, a bit more interaction would not hurt. His introduction on the Templar side is much better than the mage side, especially if you are not familiar with the books.
I think I didn't missed anyone....
The quest where you meet Dorian, the Mage arc, provides enough screen time for him. The problem is that not everyone would necessarily choose to side with the mages. With that said, I do wish he had more quests.
He's so comfortably human he tries to instruct me (a human) on how to be human. It's just too much. It's one thing to be a Qunari spy familiar with humans.. another to be a master of it. He's like Zorba the Greek, in a way. I don't know if you're familiar with the novel. Kind of an archetypal wise man of the world, instructing a younger man how to live it up and enjoy life.
It's annoying here.
It's not because he is comfortably "human" that he does this, it's because he has his own views on how things should work and I'm going to go as far as to say that he is projecting his own wants on you, it's how he wants to be himself, it is very spot on in many ways.
The way he behaves annoys me too, but it has nothing to do with him as a character and a lot with the fact that our personalities are different.
The quest where you meet Dorian, the Mage arc, provides enough screen time for him. The problem is that not everyone would necessarily choose to side with the mages. With that said, I do wish he had more quests.
It's just that it's all can be done in the beginning and then it's all over. What missing imo is the pacing.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
it's how he wants to be himself, it is very spot on in many ways.
When you put it that way, you make me pity and kind of like him.
Stop. I must hold to my hatred.
Seriously though, I'll think about this..
It's not because he is comfortable human that he does this, it's because he has his own views on how things should work and I'm going to go as far as to say that he is projecting his own wants on you, it's how he wants to be himself, it is very spot on in many ways.
The way he behaves annoys me too, but it has nothing to do with him as a character and a lot with the fact that our personalities are different.
It's just that it's all can be done in the beginning and then it's all over. What missing imo is the pacing.
Oh, I completely agree. One of my biggest issues with DA:I is its poor pacing. The finale is especially bad. It had no build up whatsoever. Going back on topic, I think all the companions can benefit from more screen-time, not because they're weak characters, but because they're strong ones. Instead of creating mission after mission of pointless fetch quests from boring NPCs, create more quests that are centered around your companions. You have such a colorful cast of characters, use them!
I think the main problem with the companions' stories is that they are too self-contained and isolated from the main narrative. My suggestion is to not create self-contained small dedicated quests for the companions, but make them more involved in the main quests. As it is, you can always cut a companion quest and the game wouldn't feel any different. Most companion quests don't add anything significant to the story, with the exception of those that illustrate specific aspects of the lore, like Cole's and Solas', but even then they come across as excursions from the main story.
In general, a good story is always carried by its characters. This principle appears to have been very selectively applied for DAI. Also, there may be too many companions. Two of each class should be enough, we don't need three.
I think the main problem with the companions' stories is that they are too self-contained and isolated from the main narrative. My suggestion is to not create self-contained small dedicated quests for the companions, but make them more involved in the main quests. As it is, you can always cut a companion quest and the game wouldn't feel any different. Most companion quests don't add anything significant to the story, with the exception of those that illustrate specific aspects of the lore, like Cole's and Solas', but even then they come across as excursions from the main story.
In general, a good story is always carried by its characters. This principle appears to have been very selectively applied for DAI. Also, there may be too many companions. Two of each class should be enough, we don't need three.
Agreed. I loved the way Dorian and Cole were used in the Mage/Templar arcs. That's what we need. In comparison, Iron Bull, Sera, Blackwall, and Vivenne felt very disconnected from the main story, since they never had a direct role to play in any of the major events. Well, you can bring Blackwall with you in the Wardens arc and Vivienne with you for the Winter Palace to get a little more dialogue out of them, but it's optional.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Agreed. I loved the way Dorian and Cole were used in the Mage/Templar arcs. That's what we need. In comparison, Iron Bull, Sera, Blackwall, and Vivenne felt very disconnected from the main story, since they never had a direct role to play in any of the major events. Well, you can bring Blackwall with you in the Wardens arc and Vivienne with you for the Winter Palace to get a little more dialogue out of them, but it's optional.
Some of their content wasn't tied in closely, but I think their general..... schtick and personality, if you will.. were still part of central themes. Blackwall symbolically tied to Wardens, Vivienne tied to mage/templar issues, etc.. They still feel very purposeful in this world. Which is another complaint I have about Bull. I don't really know why most of my characters would want him in the Inquisition. Not just a Qunari, but a spy too. Even Sera feels more justified.. since she just wants to restore order and care about common people. She has a simple goal, but at least it's tied to some basic ideals of the group.
Not just a Qunari, but a spy too.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer? Same reason you would want Michel too. Plus more troops for you.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer? Same reason you would want Michel too.
Doesn't really justify it for some of my characters.
For example, a mage would be wary for obvious reasons. It's not mere enemies. Qunari want to cut their tongues out. And Trevelyan nobles come from a city literally invaded by the Qunari. And if they viewed the Inquisition as some kind of Holy Calling, teaming up would sicken them.
I felt the same way about Sten and some Wardens. Like the Cousland wouldn't recruit a guy who slaughtered some family... almost right after seeing his own family get slaughtered. It's just too much for me to wrap my head around. I don't care to be play a character with that level of tolerance.
Doesn't really justify it for some of my characters.
For example, a mage would be wary for obvious reasons. Trevelyan nobles come from a city literally invaded by the Qunari. And if they viewed the Inquisition as some kind of Holy Calling, teaming up would sicken them.
I felt the same way about Sten and some Wardens. Like the Cousland wouldn't recruit a guy who slaughtered some family... almost right after seeing his own family get slaughtered.
Well if you rationalize it as such then there is an option to not recruit him.
Some of their content wasn't tied in closely, but I think their general..... schtick and personality, if you will.. were still part of central themes. Blackwall symbolically tied to Wardens, Vivienne tied to mage/templar issues, etc.. They still feel very purposeful in this world. Which is another complaint I have about Bull. I don't really know why most of my characters would want him in the Inquisition. Not just a Qunari, but a spy too. Even Sera feels more justified.. since she just wants to restore order and care about common people. She has a simple goal, but at least it's tied to some basic ideals of the group.
There are plenty more things that doesn't stand up to real world logic in this game, like conveniently finding a fortress after trekking hundreds of miles in the snowy mountains with a massive army that had no access to food, water, or any other supplies. Not to mention that there isn't any trees for them to gather wood to make fire. Yeah, I threw logic out the door when I got to that part of the story.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Well if you rationalize it as such then there is an option to not recruit him.
I don't.
But if I do, then he makes the most sense on my Inquisitors who don't really give a **** about much. Or might be a little subversive or comical. That's sad, but that's the only way Bull makes sense to me. lol
I don't.
But if I do, then he makes the most sense on my Inquisitors who don't really give a **** about much. Or might be a little subversive or comical. That's sad, but that's the only way Bull makes sense to me. lol
Not really, the way I see it, it makes sense for naive inquisitor, it makes sense for manipulative inquisitor, in makes sense for a pragmatic one and all of them can be religious fanatics or not. And at the very least it makes sense for inquisitor who wants more troops.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Not really, the way I see it, it makes sense for naive inquisitor, it makes sense for manipulative inquisitor, in makes sense for a pragmatic one and all of them can be religious fanatics or not. And at the very least it makes sense for inquisitor who wants more troops.
Even the Inquisitor's line when meeting him dismisses the need for troops. You say you need magical expertise and don't need mercs. You're just trying to close the rift at that point. Then Bull tries to say he'll just be a bodyguard. Which I don't need either. I have the most badass warrior woman in Thedas by my side. Then he just gives up and outright says he's a spy.. lol. At this point, it's a comedy.
Even the Inquisitor's line when meeting him dismisses the need for troops. You say you need magical expertise and don't need mercs. You're just trying to close the rift at that point. Then Bull tries to say he'll just be a bodyguard. Which I don't need either. I have the most badass warrior woman in Thedas by my side. Then he just gives up and outright says he's a spy.. lol. At this point, it's a comedy.
Yes and at that point you are out to ask yourself why he wants in so badly, he gives you the why and it boils down to whenever you believe him, which I don't but having access to him gives me access to his spies and to knowledge who those spies are and what they do, at least in part. My IQ would never throw an opportunity like this. It's a dance. I wish it was more explored though, would be very fun.
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