111 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

It doesn't add to the character per se, but it does add to the whole setting. I mean think about it, aside from sexual preference every companion seems to drool over PC like some sort of special candy. Cullen just not being attracted to you for personal preferences/reasons is one of the more realistic and natural things there is. The fact that it's not rationalized is what makes it "realistic". Attraction is not a rational thing. Mind you I'm not saying the devs had this in mind, but it's an acceptable explanation in a singular pt.

 

I guess it's because I don't see it as every companion drooling all over you.  If you play as a female dwarf, you already have Cassandra, Solas, Varric, Vivienne, Dorian, Cole, and Leliana who aren't interested in you.  Adding Cullen to that doesn't really add anything to the setting or his character.  Especially with the meta-game knowledge that there's really no reason at all for him not to be interested in you.  I'm not terribly opposed to it and I'm not offended by it.  I just am kind of 'meh' to it.  It adds absolutely nothing to the game, setting, or character for me.  I guess that's my point. 

 

I don't know that I'd expect most NPC's to have that strong a preference but it wouldn't bother me. If there was an NPC who really liked red heads or an NPC who believed in whatever the version of astrology in DA is and the stars said their true love would be X and they were holding out for that.

 

I suspect that many people who are in favor of 'race gating' are mostly in favor of it because it adds an option for them (human or elf).  If there were two companions in the next game:  one who would only romance redheads and another who would only romance dwarves, I suspect people would suddenly not be in favor of it.  But that's just a hunch of mine.

 

I guess another way to think about it:  Bull prefers redheads and Sera prefers lady qunari.  They make their preferences clear and its up to the player to decide to create a character for their preferences.  Othewise, they are open to romance with other characters still.  I guess I just like that better because it doesn't feel as limiting but still allows characters to show preferences. 

[ThreeF]

I guess it's because I don't see it as every companion drooling all over you.  If you play as a female dwarf, you already have Cassandra, Solas, Varric, Vivienne, Dorian, Cole, and Leliana who aren't interested in you.  Adding Cullen to that doesn't really add anything to the setting or his character.  Especially with the meta-game knowledge that there's really no reason at all for him not to be interested in you.  I'm not terribly opposed to it and I'm not offended by it.  I just am kind of 'meh' to it.  It adds absolutely nothing to the game, setting, or character for me.  I guess that's my point. 

That is my point, it's tied up to the sexuality thing. Cassandra is fine with anyone as long as female. Dorian is fine with anyone as long as male. Companions are the most non-picky people you can find. We all know why Cullen ended up the way he ended up, so rationalizing it from met-game pov is moot.

[Felya87]

 

I also wonder if most of the people who are in favor of it would still be in favor of it if they created a really awesome LI who was only into dwarves and qunari for "reasons".

 

I would love a "dwarf only" romance. Expecially with another dwarf. No awkard "grow up" in certain scenes, kisses at the "right angle" (looking at you Cass. Thas is the elf nose, not mouth >_< )

[daveliam]

That is my point, it's tied up to the sexuality thing. Cassandra is fine with anyone as long as female. Dorian is fine with anyone as long as male. Companions are the most non-picky people you can find. We all know why Cullen ended up the way he ended up, so rationalizing it from met-game pov is moot.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "we know why he ended up that way".  I guess I can kind of understand the qunari thing (although, again, side-eye), but why dwarf?  Outside of once calling them heathens, there's absolutely nothing that would suggest that he shouldn't be into a dwarf, especially a devoutly Andrastian dwarf, right?

 

I would love a "dwarf only" romance. Expecially with another dwarf. No awkard "grow up" in certain scenes, kisses at the "right angle" (looking at you Cass. Thas is the elf nose, not mouth >_< )

 

I guess that's one positive. 

[Krypplingz]

I guess it's because I don't see it as every companion drooling all over you.  If you play as a female dwarf, you already have Cassandra, Solas, Varric, Vivienne, Dorian, Cole, and Leliana who aren't interested in you.  Adding Cullen to that doesn't really add anything to the setting or his character.  Especially with the meta-game knowledge that there's really no reason at all for him not to be interested in you.  I'm not terribly opposed to it and I'm not offended by it.  I just am kind of 'meh' to it.  It adds absolutely nothing to the game, setting, or character for me.  I guess that's my point. 

 

That was mean of me. Spoilers contain old post.

Spoiler

Cullen is racist. But in a polite, I'll keep it to my self and try to keep our conversation pleasant. 

For Dwarves:

Oghren: "I think you need a tall mug of ale to calm you down, lad. I may need one myself,come to think..."

Cullen: "That was inappropriate, dwarf. But what more can be expected from an ignorant, cave-dwelling heathen?"

(Ouch Cullen, ouch.)

 

For Qunari:

They are basically painted as the devil by the chantry. Heathen, oppressing, barbaric devils. Sure he knows that they can be decent and the inquisitor is cool, but it puts the damper on romancing one.

 

There is a reason for Cullen not being into other races, since he comes from a culture which tends to vilifies people of different cultures and religions. (For example the priest at Ostagar who chews you out if you refuse her blessing or Petrice and her mob which paint the Qun as the ultimate evil.). 

Now he's learning to question his teachings and make up his own mind, but he probably keeps some of the chantrys views in the back of his mind that makes Qunaris and Dwarves look unattractive to him. 

Also, he's going through lyrium withdrawal, which contains bad dreams, head aches, sweating, mood swing and the shakes. Do you blame him for not wanting to add back pain and neck strain to the mix?

[ThreeF]

I'm not sure what you mean by "we know why he ended up that way".  I guess I can kind of understand the qunari thing (although, again, side-eye), but why dwarf?  Outside of once calling them heathens, there's absolutely nothing that would suggest that he shouldn't be into a dwarf, especially a devoutly Andrastian dwarf, right?

Because it was last minute thing.... mostly.

 

 

Cullen is racist. But in a polite, I'll keep it to my self and try to keep our conversation pleasant. 

For Dwarves:

Oghren: "I think you need a tall mug of ale to calm you down, lad. I may need one myself,come to think..."

Cullen: "That was inappropriate, dwarf. But what more can be expected from an ignorant, cave-dwelling heathen?"

(Ouch Cullen, ouch.)

Is that from DAO? Cullen has re-evaluated many things since then, no reason this not be one of them. He has no problem being Dorian's best friend.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

IMO there should be one opposite and one same gender romance of each race available, then the rest of the companions not race or gender gated at all.

 

But I also thing there needs to be more POSSIBLE companions three of each class TOTAL so, you can't have them all at once but, you can pick and choose who you recruit.

[Felya87]

 

 

I guess that's one positive. 

 

As someone who loves play dwarfes, believe me, it would be something great. One of the things I liked even on a purely tecnical side the Solas romance is the fact that the animations are rarely awakard, beside the cuddle at Winter Palace. (Something went really wrong there. I hope that bug will be adressed in the future.)

[daveliam]

Because it was last minute thing.... mostly.

 

Is that from DAO? Cullen has re-evaluated many things since then, no reason this not be one of them. He has not problem being Dorian's best friend.

 

So I totally get the first point.  It's why I led off my opinion with this.  I understand that it's most likely because they just didn't have the time to add in the animations for the other races. and human/elf made the most sense given that he could express interest in them in the past.  But the fact that they didn't address it at all, yet said it was because of 'story reasons', just made the whole thing shrug-worthy at best.  I just don't see the value in race-gating, especially given that we already have LI's who express preferences, you know?  Again, Bull and Sera show preferences.  It adds to their characters because it's addressed in the game.  With Cullen, it's just a nothing.  You have to use meta-gaming and assumptions to make any sense of it. 

 

Which leads me to the second point, if Cullen has had character growth over time, enough to drastically change his views in other areas, the whole "Well, he once said some racist things about dwarves 10+ years ago, so he obviously wouldn't want to romance a devoutly Andrastrian dwarven leader of the Inquisition" just seems to be a weak argument at best. 

 

As someone who loves play dwarfes, believe me, it would be something great. One of the things I liked even on a purely tecnical side the Solas romance is the fact that the animations are rarely awakard, beside the cuddle at Winter Palace. (Something went really wrong there. I hope that bug will be adressed in the future.)

 

I pretty much only play as dwarves, if given an option, so I understand that aspect of it.  But I do think that if there were a dwarf-only romance, many people here wouldn't be happy about it.  Especially if s/he was a really likeable romance.  Imagine if Harding was a "full" romance, but only open to dwarves.  I suspect that this would actually add to the 'female LI controversy', not reduce it.

[ThreeF]

So I totally get the first point.  It's why I led off my opinion with this.  I understand that it's most likely because they just didn't have the time to add in the animations for the other races. and human/elf made the most sense given that he could express interest in them in the past.  But the fact that they didn't address it at all, yet said it was because of 'story reasons', just made the whole thing shrug-worthy at best.  I just don't see the value in race-gating, especially given that we already have LI's who express preferences, you know?  Again, Bull and Sera show preferences.  It adds to their characters because it's addressed in the game.  With Cullen, it's just a nothing.  You have to use meta-gaming and assumptions to make any sense of it. 

 

Which leads me to the second point, if Cullen has had character growth over time, enough to drastically change his views in other areas, the whole "Well, he once said some racist things about dwarves 10+ years ago, so he obviously wouldn't want to romance a devoutly Andrastrian dwarven leader of the Inquisition" just seems to be a weak argument at best. 

I see "racism" to be a weak argument too, but I do see "nothing" as a more valid/appealing argument, it's the meta-gaming knowledge that makes it dust and void.

 

Showing/having a preference, especially in case of Bull and Sera where it borderlines a fetish, is not the same as just (not) being attracted to someone.

[daveliam]

I see "racism" to be a weak argument too, but I do see "nothing" as a more valid/appealing argument, it's the meta-gaming knowledge that makes it dust and void.

 

Showing/having a preference, especially in case of Bull and Sera where it borderlines a fetish, is not the same as just (not) being attracted to someone.

 

I guess I just don't see how having a companion just not be attracted to anyone of one particular race (or multiple races) adds anything to the game that can't be done by having them state that they are more into the other races.  Like, I don't see how having Cullen be gated from dwarves is better than having Cullen make a few statements about how attractive he finds humans and elves.  It would still give a realistic view that he has preferences, but wouldn't restrict players who happen to like playing the less popular races.

 

Again, I don't hate race-gating.  I just don't see the value that it adds to the game unless it is explained in some way, like it apparently is in Solas' romance.  

[Felya87]

 

I pretty much only play as dwarves, if given an option, so I understand that aspect of it.  But I do think that if there were a dwarf-only romance, many people here wouldn't be happy about it.  Especially if s/he was a really likeable romance.  Imagine if Harding was a "full" romance, but only open to dwarves.  I suspect that this would actually add to the 'female LI controversy', not reduce it.

 

I think before the confirmation that Varric wasn't a LI, the big mayority of his fan where ready for the "dwarf only" mentality. 

I'm one of those people who have no problem in creating a character of a certain gender/race just to try certain romances.

I'm sure there would be complaint for a great romance being restricted, but I have known many people who have rolled a female elf just for Solas (the mayority are straight male who usually only play straight males, but where interested in the story and character enought to roll a female elf, and now that inquistor is one of their preferred one.  ) and have found that is not so bad creating a different kind of character for once.

 

I think that, if the romance have enought relation to the choosen race, than the restriction is ok. But it have to give something very interesting story wise. in the Solas romance it made sense for how is written (expecially the last part) that Solas is elf specific. I still don't know for Cullen, since I have just started his romence (I'm not even in Skyhold) but for now I only see a "time and resource" motivation.

[ThreeF]

I guess I just don't see how having a companion just not be attracted to anyone of one particular race (or multiple races) adds anything to the game that can't be done by having them state that they are more into the other races.  Like, I don't see how having Cullen be gated from dwarves is better than having Cullen make a few statements about how attractive he finds humans and elves.

I don't know perhaps it has to do with the fact that we come from different background, I'm more than fine with not having people telling me why they are attracted to this but not that. I can see why in a game often there is the need to elaborate on this, but from personal pov I'm fine if it isn't and to that extend I don't see Cullen as being necessary "race gated". I see it as a more realistic approach.

[daveliam]

I don't know perhaps it has to do with the fact that we come from different background, I'm more than fine with not having people telling me why they are attracted to this but not that. I can see why in a game often there is the need to elaborate on this, but from personal pov I'm fine if it isn't and to that extend I don't see Cullen as being necessary "race gated"

 

There's a difference between "fine with it" and "it adds to the experience".  I'm "fine with it", but I don't think "it adds to the experience".  So, for me, it's not a feature that I care about.  I'd be fine if it never showed up again, outside of a few cases where it's tied directly to the story that they are telling.  I just think that, like the 'racism' argument, the "it adds to the setting" argument is weak because there are other ways to do this that could work just as effectively, in my opinion.

 

And with that, I'm out of the thread because I've made my case, but don't feel the need to belabor the point.  I don't like it and others do and that's cool with me. 

[Uirebhiril]

Again, I don't hate race-gating.  I just don't see the value that it adds to the game unless it is explained in some way, like it apparently is in Solas' romance.  

 

Tattoo thing aside, Solas is an elven god. I don't understand why people question his gating, and the idea that he doesn't see modern elves as his people, well, maybe not - but if he's going to fall for someone, it's probably going to be of the race he is familiar with. An elf inquisitor is going to be relatable in a way a human or dwarf can't be, and for the whole of the story I find this good. It makes sense. Dramatically falling in love with another race would have made me roll my eyes hard, not out of bias for race playing preference but because it would have just made the whole thing typical. I hate cliche and tropes in anything, and that would have been the biggest one of all.

 

As long as the gating makes sense for a character in future games, I'd like to see it there, too. Not used as a matter of course to tick off a box, but anything that adds to a character's story is good for me.

 

Or, well, if by restricting races it means we get extras to spread around. That's a good reason too. Without it we would have neither Cullen or Solas, and that would have been a real shame.

[eyezonlyii]

I'm going to have to disagree with you daveliam. I think the race gating is fine, and not everyone needs a thesis on why they don't want to date someone else. I mean as a gay black guy, the number of times I've heard or read in a profile "no blacks, just a preference" is...a lot. And I will say that I myself am not into short guys (I'm 5'6 so anyone shorter than me is pretty short). Cullen doesn't need a reason to not date dwarves. Which brings me to a question. How would you have him justify it (or have the game justify it) satisfactorily?

[AresKeith]

If the next game has multiple races I wouldn't mind seeing race-gating return 

[AlexMBrennan]

I'm going to have to disagree with you daveliam. I think the race gating is fine, and not everyone needs a thesis on why they don't want to date someone else. I mean as a gay black guy, the number of times I've heard or read in a profile "no blacks, just a preference" is...a lot. And I will say that I myself am not into short guys (I'm 5'6 so anyone shorter than me is pretty short). Cullen doesn't need a reason to not date dwarves. Which brings me to a question. How would you have him justify it (or have the game justify it) satisfactorily?

The point of race gating is that you arbitrarily pick one factor (hair color), and decide that romanceability is purely determined by that one factor (Solas dates redheads, Cullen dates redheads and blondes, etc) *and nothing else* which is kinda silly and arbitrary

[Vanth]

I don't see how one can argue for gender gating but not race gating. Race seems to me to be a large part of identity so it seems reasonable that some characters would prefer specific racial choices. I had no problem with this. If fact I think I would like to see more race gating because it will make playing as an elf, dwarf or quuari more distinctive with more character.

[daveliam]

The point of race gating is that you arbitrarily pick one factor (hair color), and decide that romanceability is purely determined by that one factor (Solas dates redheads, Cullen dates redheads and blondes, etc) *and nothing else* which is kinda silly and arbitrary

 

This is kind of my point.  It seems arbitrary and doesn't actually add anything in my opinion.  Again, if it makes sense for actual story purposes, like with Solas, then I'm fine with it and could actually see it as a benefit.  It's why I  never saw a problem with the Alistair romance for non-humans.  That makes sense to me.  But at least it's part of the storyline.  They didn't just leave out the 'flirt' code with non-humans and that's that.  

 

But the Cullen type where it's just a random trait that for no reason whatsoever they've decided he's "just not into".  Meh.  I mean, fine I guess, but meh.  It's just not compelling to me.  I recognize that it's most likely a consequence of the short turn-over time since his romance was added in late.  But the fact that it was sold as "for story reasons" and then it's just left with......nothing.  I don't know, it's just not interesting to me. 

 

The whole, "Well real people have preferences" argument doesn't seem terribly convincing because you can make the world's ugliest Templar and Chantry hating human and the world's most gorgeous, pious Andrastian dwarf and we're supposed to believe that he'd pick the human over the dwarf just because she's a dwarf.  I mean, I guess that's realistic in some way, but it doesn't really make Cullen seem like a deeper character (the opposite if anything).  If they went all-in and actually made the character racist, then that might actually be better for me because it would have a reason.  But as is.....it just feels lame. 

[eyezonlyii]

He could just have a min/max height rule. "You can only be within these bounds to ride this ride" kind of thing like they do on roller coasters.

[daveliam]

He could just have a min/max height rule. "You can only be within these bounds to ride this ride" kind of thing like they do on roller coasters.

 

Maybe.  He just needs to carry that stick around with him to make sure that they measure up!

 

Here's a question for you:  You say that you're not into short guys, right?  What if you met two guys:  one is really unattractive and goes against most of your political beliefs, but he's 5'11"; the other is really hot and stands for everything that you are looking for in a guy, but is 5'5".  Would you really prefer the first one over the second one? 

 

That's kind of how I see these arbitrary race-gatings.  Again, not the Solas one.  Not the Alistair one.  Really, just Cullen's. 

[ThreeF]

<snip>

it's all because you are trying to find a reason where there was none other than a technical one.

[eyezonlyii]

Maybe.  He just needs to carry that stick around with him to make sure that they measure up!
 
Here's a question for you:  You say that you're not into short guys, right?  What if you met two guys:  one is really unattractive and goes against most of your political beliefs, but he's 5'11"; the other is really hot and stands for everything that you are looking for in a guy, but is 5'5".  Would you really prefer the first one over the second one? 
 
That's kind of how I see these arbitrary race-gatings.  Again, not the Solas one.  Not the Alistair one.  Really, just Cullen's.

Was Alistair race gated?
But I just don't think Cullen is that into Dave, no matter what sex dwarf you indentify with. Really, he probably sees through your Bugs Bunny costume change anyway . To answer your hypothetical, either would make for a night of staff polishing I guess, but I won't say I would prohibit anything from happening with the short guy. He's just have to be at the top of his game I guess.

[JosieRevisited]

 

Here's a question for you:  You say that you're not into short guys, right?  What if you met two guys:  one is really unattractive and goes against most of your political beliefs, but he's 5'11"; the other is really hot and stands for everything that you are looking for in a guy, but is 5'5".  Would you really prefer the first one over the second one? 

 

 

Sadly, I know a few people who have done just that. It's not terribly uncommon for folks to pick someone with arbitrary traits they like that are completely wrong in every other way. So, Cullen being gated the way he is makes sense. His design around the gating I also felt was done in a way that worked. By the second flirt, you knew you weren't getting anywhere with him (he shut my female qunari down fast). With some other companions, you can go through quite a few options and even at the point where it feels like it should be cut off (because it's a good stopping point before you get too invested)... it isn't. 

 

Does it make the rejection more epic? Oh sure, but I don't need a video game to be epicly rejected. Get it over with quickly, thanks. 

 

Race gating is ok if they want it. Gender gating is ok if they want it. Work some compelling backstory into it, and make sure that by the second attempt or so it's made very clear that the romance isn't going to go anywhere. 

 

Cullen specifically? I can understand the disappointment. I've seen a lot of feedback about his romance and all of it has been good. That much effort into the whole "boyfriend experience" was bound to cause some backlash from the players who couldn't experience it because they happened to think qunari was a cool looking demon race to play. I'm sure they will take the feedback and do it better next time.