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DA4 and Race Gating.


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#101
ThreeF

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I thought the reason for Cullen's race gating was that they just didn't have time to handle the cinematics for scenes with shorter Dwarves and taller Qunari. 

yes, I also think that by the time they realized it they also didn't had time to figure out a proper reason for it and they just went with it, instead of scrapping it.


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#102
Drasanil

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In the future I'd like to see even more race gating, and even possibly more non-companion potential romances. Be kind of cool if Bioware just did 1 male and female, open to anyone, then used the rest of the word/animation budgets to make some really defined/tailored romances that mesh with a given character. I'd also like to potentially see stuff like having marriages arranged by a nobles' family, or a city elf's haren.



#103
vertigomez

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^I second the "arranged marriage" idea.

Hell, if you can subject Alistair to that, why not your own character? :ph34r:

#104
Zobert

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I'm just not that impressed with the race gating.  I understand that it's partially an issue with programming because of the varying racial sizes, so on that front, I get it.  It's more work to animate romances with four races, each of which are a different size.  But from a story perspective, it just hasn't done anything to impress me.  I've not romanced either Cullen or Solas (because I prefer not to play humans or elves, if given a chance), so I can't speak of what the actual romance is like.  But I've played the game as a female dwarf and there's really nothing that indicates that either guy shouldn't be interested in her.  In both cases, without metagaming, I wouldn't even know that they were romance options for humans and elves, which is fine.  But my understanding is that neither are really ever given reasons why they are race-gated. 

 

Solas kind of makes sense knowing what happens at the end, but it's not really clear in the game.  I know that people say it's because Solas is pro-elf, but when you don't romance him, he actually comes across the opposite.  I just redid the Winter Palace quest and afterwards apologized to him for not doing more to help Briala and the elves and he was like, "Oh because I'm an elf, well aren't you just a little bit racist......" (slightly exaggerated paraphrase).  So I never got the impression from him that he was all pro-elf.  Perhaps this comes out if you play as an elf?  For Cullen, he just gives the "I'm afraid I can only offer you friendship." line.  Neither of those cases really impressed me or added any realism.  It just seems arbitrary. 

 

The argument that people have preferences in real life seems pretty lame, to be honest.  What next?  Hair color gating?  Skin color gating?  I mean, it's realistic, right?  Maybe if it were implemented in a way that mattered at all, I'd feel differently.  But for now, it just seems like an arbitrary restriction with no meaning and a bunch of people offering lame excuses as to why it makes the game better.  I would certainly not miss race gating in the next game, unless it meant something for the story. 

 

Because no one in real life has preferences about dating within their race or a specific gender.  Since it is our game, why have gay or straight characters?  We should just date whomever, right?

 

I have gay male friends who say rather vehemently that they'd rather screw a girl than an overweight guy and straight guys who said they'd go gay rather than have sex with Lena Dunham.  Weight, hair, looks...people actually care about that stuff.


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#105
Mewlss

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I don't have any problems about the race gating. As a matter of fact, I love it. I like the realistic turn taken with it. For example, since there are some people in real life that prefer one sex over the other, there are also people who prefer certain races over others.  :?


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#106
Lee T

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Since regular people have preferences regarding romantic relationship, I don't mind fictional characters having the same. While it can be a source of frustration for some, it also adds depth to the characters around us.
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#107
ThreeF

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In the future I'd like to see even more race gating, and even possibly more non-companion potential romances. Be kind of cool if Bioware just did 1 male and female, open to anyone, then used the rest of the word/animation budgets to make some really defined/tailored romances that mesh with a given character.

Not sure if I would want such an extreme, it creates a weird dynamic full of rather extreme individuals (especially if they all will have to explain their preferences in one way or other).



#108
Rekkampum

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I was all for the race gating before playing the game. I figured it'd give the game higher replay value, but really it just felt superfluous. Even with Solas, who is all, "For the elves!" I could still see him with a female of any race. In fact, that would have given the romance a different perspective based on the player's chosen race. Thus, higher replay value with no race gating, not the other way around. 

 

I know a lot of people have a lot of criticisms regarding the romances. I can understand lopsided gender options - we had that in the Mass Effect games and now we have it in Dragon Age Inquisition. Nothing new. I can understand lopsided gay/bi/hetero options. This adds more depth to a character since sexuality is a strong defining trait of nearly... all of us - even if you're asexual. 

 

But I just didn't see the point in race gating. They almost race gated Iron Bull, even. 

 

I guess I'd just like to cast my vote against race gating for the next Dragon Age game ("DA4"), especially since it seems like dwarf and qunari fans are going to be the people likely to lose out the most. Nevermind which gender they may choose. (And I'm not a fan of either of those races, but I think they deserve more options...)

 

The only reason they'd originally "race gated" IB was because they had problems animating him with an LI properly. I kinda disagree though. Characters having preferences in some cases- especially if they fit their personality, like Solas - makes sense when done properly.
Since most Qunari are mercs who aren't really amicable, it kinda makes sense that some may not be as interested in one - although they're now my fav race - especially with their mysterious and imposing history. Dwarfs do get no love doe...



#109
karushna5

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I hate to say it, but reality is grossly overrated in fiction. Heroes should die, and in fact most heroes outside of religion and myth, were surrounded by armies, or commanded them and did less battle. So every major battle needs to be a swarm of enemies right after the other and even one hit can take our guys out of the fight, hows the infection roll coming? Also lots of logistics. Wait around and train people and getting supplies is the main game. Romance often takes years, or nothing except personal interest. Since it is pretty impossible to keep track of character gen then they will randomly determine if a character is into you. After that it is awkward and they leave because of it. Also rules about dating people below you, so Shepard should have no romances except with people breaking the rules, so no people who listen to rules or are part of the military structure. 

 

It is fun because it isn't realistic. For realism there is life, there is reality. It takes years and years to do these things, video games can't replace life. A realistic game is Doing Taxes, or Cleaning after animals, What you are wanting out of this game is impossible. It would not be fun if it was realistic. I am not talking about fantasy elements here. Why pick gender and race? In real life you don't. In fact make looks completely random as to suit what we are given in life.

 

Realism is only there to make it feel more fun. Supply management is fun for some people, because by being smart and putting another needed element of skills to win, it feels better to achieve. But usually even heroes die by accident. Every fight, you have a 8% chance to die by accident because nothing in your skill set could have saved you.  That isn't fun. Realism serves up until it gets in the way of being epic.

 

Yes, if you are a Dwarf Male AND make the right choices you are attractive to Cassandra, Josephine, Iron Bull, and Dorian 4 very different people who want different things in a mate. Sure they could all hate dwarves, but the point of the romance and game is you can have the kind of hero you want and then try to have a type of romantic story from the provided choices. Realism isn't a goal in itself. It isn't supposed to be. It never has been. Experience an epic story is the point of fantasy.

 

In epic stories, heroes always should get the girl. Han shouldn't have gotten Leia just because he is the hero. What prince will look everywhere for a girl and a shoe when there were plenty of other women? Stories and fun gets bogged down by logistics. Every science fiction movie, every fiction book, every game ignores reality and realism for the sake of a good story. If you need romance to cling to reality to the degree that it is like speed dating, go speed dating and demand that same reality over other aspects of the game. 

 

Where are the cries to have the character already know most of their skills by play (as most very trained adults do) they can only add a few more skills. They can't increase their health which is always low enough that a big enough blow can kill them one shot. Some bad guys are just better than you (in reality someones always better at something enough to kill you) if you ever meet them, you die, but you never know which ones they are. Infection is a constant worry as is disease. And even 1 hit can keep you off the fight for weeks to the point you miss major battles and events. Of course all these things can lead to game over.

 

In fact, for every soldier, there are 2 who need to provide for the army. Why not play the bootmaker? The secretary? the blacksmith? The farmer that grows the food? Every game about war being mostly about soldiers is unrealistic. Where is the farmer provides food for soldiers game?

 

Very Sorry for this rant.



#110
Sartoz

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Yeah - I understand the need to cut corners, especially when operating under EA's watch. But at the same time, I still would like to toss race gating out the window. :/

Qunari and a dwarf? .. This makes no sense.



#111
Sartoz

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I guess it's because I don't see it as every companion drooling all over you.  If you play as a female dwarf, you already have Cassandra, Solas, Varric, Vivienne, Dorian, Cole, and Leliana who aren't interested in you.  Adding Cullen to that doesn't really add anything to the setting or his character.  Especially with the meta-game knowledge that there's really no reason at all for him not to be interested in you.  I'm not terribly opposed to it and I'm not offended by it.  I just am kind of 'meh' to it.  It adds absolutely nothing to the game, setting, or character for me.  I guess that's my point. 

 

 

I suspect that many people who are in favor of 'race gating' are mostly in favor of it because it adds an option for them (human or elf).  If there were two companions in the next game:  one who would only romance redheads and another who would only romance dwarves, I suspect people would suddenly not be in favor of it.  But that's just a hunch of mine.

 

I guess another way to think about it:  Bull prefers redheads and Sera prefers lady qunari.  They make their preferences clear and its up to the player to decide to create a character for their preferences.  Othewise, they are open to romance with other characters still.  I guess I just like that better because it doesn't feel as limiting but still allows characters to show preferences. 

I bought the game for the game. Romances are a side show.

 

The Cassandra romance seems to be a plug-in. Once over, it's over... just like a quest... a truly wtf moment when I realized that.



#112
Zobert

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I have to say that I have a problem with DA:I because they took something consistent within it's fictional rules, the Qunari of DA:O and DA2, and softened them and PC'd them up.  This removes the challenge of that race.  Iron Bull is no Qunari.  He is a big dude with horns.  Women weren't warriors in the Qun until this game.  It was SUPPOSED to ****** off the women and make it a challenge.  Nothing felt better to me than when Sten came around that I was something special or when the Arishok made me his respected adversary as a female.

 

Part of these games is overcoming challenges, inclusing sexism, classism, and bigotry--not making everything easy.  You don't win them all.  I couldn't marry Alastair as an elf mage and that smarted but at the end of the day it made the world REAL.  He ended up marrying no one and we were chilling forever in the way that we could.  That's unfortunately real but it also gave the story depth.  I didn't leave Skyrim frustrated like I did DA:O but what I left with was a group of friends which felt strange.  I hated turning off that dang game because they were suddenly REAL to me.  I felt like I was killing them.

 

In life we rarely get what we want, we get challenge and no way to address them.  This game should be our outlet where we get those challenges and can make a difference, not be shielded from them.

 

So yes, the reality is that Cullen doesn't like women with huge horns sticking out of his head or like men.  Dorian is the hottest guy in the game and I can't get with him unless I play as a male.  Oh well.  It happens.  I can't be with Varric ever which is practically criminal!  Again, that's what makes it a good game.


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